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You cannot believe in "faith alone"!

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Markwsmith2020, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Markwsmith2020

    Markwsmith2020 Member

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    You CANNOT believe in salvation by faith alone and believe the teaching of Jesus Christ!

    Jesus Christ taught: Mark 16:16

    Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,

    It can't be both!

    You CANNOT believe in salvation by faith alone and believe the teaching of Paul!

    Paul taught: 1 Cor 13 three things are eternal: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    If it was faith alone, the greatest would be faith! But the greatest is love!

    3 things not faith alone!

    You CANNOT believe in salvation by faith alone and believe the Bible!

    The Bible teaches:

    Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: not faith alone!

    1 Timothy 2:15
    Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. Not faith alone!

    1 Peter 3:21
    The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us! Not faith alone!

    Romans 13:11
    For now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

    This scripture makes no logical sense if you believe faith alone!
     
  2. drjean

    drjean Senior Veteran Supporter CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team

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    Hi. Are you asking for clarification of the Scriptures in your confusion? A good Greek Concordance can help understand the various nuances of the Greek words; translations into English are lacking because the English language just doesn't have words to denote such differences.
     
  3. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus former ex-YEC

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    Works are a FRUIT of faith.
    It is none the less faith in God that saves.
    John 3:16
     
  4. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    It messes with your head doesn't it ? And it always will until you get the point of the "mystery that was kept secret since the beginning and is now made manifest ( Col. 1:26 through Paul) and made clear to all the saints". God kept this from the Jews through the ages who it was that was going to address the Gentiles in an age of Grace and that age was coming. This is the church age we live in right now the, age of Grace. And incidentally it's the last age before the end comes. In order to get the clarity of this you have to see that Jesus on earth not only did it but stated that He was here to teach the Jews. Not until Acts ( after Pentecost) did He knock Saul ( Paul) off his horse and tell him the plan He had for Paul and took him into 3 years of personal bible study supernaturally ( believed to be in the desert). Until you can accept this separation the difference of the two mysteries, one made known since the beginning and one kept secret since the beginning but now made manifest, you will be forever confused and not able to roll Paul into the program with a clear mind.. Of course in the end it all comes back together.

    You can tell me I'm crazy ( I've been called worse) but until I saw this I was a biblical mess. The answers are there but you have to make that distinction between the mysteries.

    Now the Catholic church freely uses 1 Corinthians 13 as part and parcel of the love message ( agape love), I know because I did a reading of that chapter and verse in church when I was in that organization, but if they have you guys all strung out over Paul's other teachings then really shouldn't they just toss it out ? But they don't, Paul's ministry is real.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  5. Markwsmith2020

    Markwsmith2020 Member

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    No just because Paul or the Bible teach faith, as in Heb 11:6 or John 3:16 does not mean faith alone, they are establishing sound doctrine must begin with faith! You still have Det. Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself which Christ affirmed!
     
  6. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Actually it's the Grace of God that saves us through faith. He saves us by/with His Grace. You can go back to Abraham and see it, where "Abraham Believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness" Genesis 15:6 and also Romans 4:3

    Incidentally Speaking of Hebrews, this is back to addressing the Jews where He says the day comes where the Law is placed in their hearts by a new covenant ( Hebrews 8:10 ).
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  7. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Salvation if of God's GRACE ... His gift to us.

    Faith/Believe is the conviction wherewith we reach out to accept God's gift of salvation to us.

    Regarding Mark 16:16 ... it refers to the baptism of the Spirit, which comes upon the believer (witness Pentecost) ... and is efficacious in the process of God's salvation to us.

    Regarding 1 Corinthians 13 ... LOVE is the greatest, as it is the MOTIVATION for God's gifting of salvation (John 3:16). FAITH is OUR MOTIVATION to accept God's LOVING gift of salvation.

    Regarding Romans 8:24 ... "saved by hope" is not the majority translation. Alternate preferable translations are "saved with hope" or "saved in hope".

    Regarding 1 Timothy 2:15 ... is it your belief that women are SPIRITUALLY SAVED through childbirth ?

    Regarding 1 Peter 3:21 ... it also speaks of SPIRITUAL BAPTISM ... which is performed by God.

    Regarding Romans 13:11 ... salvation does not always refer to our SPIRITUAL SALVATION in Christ. It can, for instance, refer to God's saving of a people (i.e. the Hebrews from Egyptian bondage) ... or to a yet-to-be achieved stage of our God-gifted salvation. For instance, per God's gift of salvation, we ...

    ... are NOW SAVED from the PENALTY of sin
    ... are being SAVED from the POWER of sin
    ... will be SAVED from the very PRESENCE of sin

    Therefore, it can be truthfully said that the FULLNESS of our salvation "draws nigh" or "that it is nearer than when we first believed".
     
  8. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    I will add to the confusion... what of the thief on the cross? Best I can tell from the account, it was purely faith and trust in who Yeshua is. Kinda hard to get baptized when you are elevated by being nailed to a chunk of wood. If you can figure a way, pleased enlighten us. No indication that this fellow had any appreciable concept of Yeshua before getting a spike job done at the hands of the Romans.

    And I concur, that considering Abraham, all he did was believe God and he was considered righteous. And that seems to be pretty well expounded upon in several passages in the NT. Not sure how it could get any clearer than that.

    And regarding faith, hope, and love. Faith is the hope of things not seen (Heb 11:1) and Messiah is the manifestation of the Love of God.
     
  9. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    In Hebrews 11, every example of saving faith is also an example of some living in obedience to God's will, so it is a mistake to say that baptism is done apart from faith.

    Saying that we saved by faith alone is not denying that other attributes have value or that can have more value than faith.

    In Romans 3:28, Paul said that justified by works apart from man-made works of law, and this is what is meant by faith alone. Our works don't add to our salvation, so you are trying to pit Paul against himself, but Romans 8:24 does not say that we are saved by hope, but in hope.

    Being saved often refers to being saved from our sins, but there are many other things that we can be from, so this verse is not speaking about our eternal salvation.

    In Ephesians 2:8-10, Paul made it explicitly clear that we are saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works lest anyone should boast, but rather we are new creations in Christ for the purpose of doing good works. Baptism doesn't save us it is doing a good work that earns our salvation which we can boast about, but rather it saves us because it is done in faith.
     
  10. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    The issue is not that Catholics believe the Jesus Christ, the apostles, and the Bible while Protestants do not, but that Protestants think that you have interpreted them incorrectly.

    Before being concerned with whether Protestants are teaching another Gospel, you should first be concerned with taking the plank out of your own eye so that you can see clearly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  11. Baby Cottontail

    Baby Cottontail Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you don't believe that non-Catholics are saved?
     
  12. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    God has always been a God of grace (Exodus 34:6-7) and has show his grace to people throughout the OT (Psalms 119:29, Genesis 6:8-9), so while it is correct to say that this is an age of grace, it would be incorrect if the implication was that that other times have not been an age of grace.
     
  13. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Soyeon, absolutely correct !! Read my other post about Abraham further down the list..
     
  14. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Ya, I saw that after I posted, so I'm glad we agree. It is too frequent that a run across people who act like grace, faith, and love weren't important attributes of God in the OT, but suddenly became important in the NT.
     
  15. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Some Christians are born again, believe in faith alone, and every day do the works of the Father, as Scripture says to do.

    Some people do not believe in faith alone, and every day do the works of the world, not of the Father, as Scripture says .....

    Which one is justied by Yahweh , as Scripture says ?
     
  16. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    If the thief had come down from the cross and been healed that he would have lived a transformed life by grace through faith and that is why he was saved.

    Abraham believed God so he was considered righteous and Abraham believed God, so he didn't hesitate to offer Isaac, so saying that all Abraham did was believe undermines the fullness of his example for what it means to believe.
     
  17. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Since people don't know what Scripture says (means),
    how are they supposed to find out ?

    Who can they turn to ?

    Yahweh made it all simple; man came up with many dexeptions....
     
  18. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    You have never read john ch 3 verses 16-18.It is all about believing in Jesus and what is believing if it is not faith.

    Are you trying to tell us like the JW and Mormons that we are saved by faith plus something else?
    Is salvation something we earn or deserve or is it a gift from God?
     
  19. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    First off, the inclusion of that verse is questionable at best.

    Secondly, your own codex, the Codex Vaticanus does not have it.

    Thirdly, a denomination that appeals 99% of the time to the ECF's or the catechisms, then turn right around and use scripture to dispute "sola fide"?

    This is funny.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  20. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Why not?

    What did Paul teach?

    "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." -Acts 16:29-30 (KJV)

    Funny, atypical "anti-sola fide" stuff we have heard over and over for years upon years.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
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