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You cannot believe in "faith alone"!

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Markwsmith2020, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Now I said earlier:

    Let me do some work for you:

    Codex Vaticanus, the Codex in the library of the Vatican, does not include Mark 16:9-20.

    Classification: Majuscule
    Date: 4th Century
    Location: Vatican Library
    Shelf Number: Vat. gr. 1209, p. 1235-1518 (p. 1519-1536: 1957)
    Content: Gospels; Pauline; Acts and Catholic Epistles (Apostolos)
    Language: Greek

    GA03_0035a.jpg Mar 16:3/Mar 16:8

    (The Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts)

    The Codex is from the 4th century, has three (3) columns, and is in Greek.

    The center column contains Mark 16:3-8 and stops. There is no third column.

    The Next page starts like so:

    (1st column) Luke 1:1-9; (2nd column) Luke 1:9-18; (3rd column) Luke 1:18-35.

    It also strikes me that Protestants always appeal to scripture. Catholicism appeals to certain councils or catechisms.

    Like I said, funny, the Vatican's own Codex (scripture) does not support their own doctrine. We (Protestants) are often castigated for our stance on scripture. Yet here is a Catholic, who appeals to scripture, but the scripture they appeal to isn't even supported by their own Codex!

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  2. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Jewish Shema is one of the best prayers, especially when one adds the words of Jesus to it about loving God and our neighbor. I pray it every day before I go to sleep.
     
  3. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is using mental illness as some sort of goading funny to you?

    Poor taste. Very poor taste. Next time I will respond. Get some fruit of the spirit.
     
  4. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    You seem to be unable to reason logically. You believe non existent deductions because of it.
    Again you display your inability to reason properly.
    No - In the 16th century the true gospel was rescued from those who had held it captive from most of the laity.
    You're a nasty little rascal aren't you? Is that a gift from some spirit or do you come by it naturally?
     
  5. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    You know, I was bashed for showing some of the history behind Catholicism and the need for the Reformation.

    Lets look at two events in human history and ask this question: "How do you control the human population?"

    In 1932, a movement started. A single person started a call against what he believed was the downfall and all the problems with his country. Adolph Hitler.

    To sway the populace, he devised a plan and a way to bring people around to his line of thought. It took some 7-8 years for it to come to fruition though.

    How do you control the human population?

    There are three basic steps:
    1. Control the government and the education system.
    2. Control the media.
    3. Keep the masses ignorant.
    If you control the government, you an control the laws. If you control the education system, you can dictate what the masses know.

    If you control the media, television and radio, not only do you control what they see, but what they hear. (A very powerful combination)

    And if you keep the masses ignorant, they'll not know any better.

    These were lessons Adolph Hitler knew well. His anti-Jew rhetoric was very effective in the 1938-1939 era. As seen in the events just prior to World War II. Nearly every single German of that era, believed that the Jews were the downfall of Germany. I was seen in the schools on how young German children were taught, while Jewish children were ignored and ridiculed. Thanks to Hitler's propaganda minister, he controlled not only the schools, but the media, films, radio, newspapers. Free speech was outlawed! Not all mind you, but most Germans had to rely o what was seen in public films, read in the newspaper, or heard on the radio. And by doing so, the Nazi party kept the masses ignorant. Ignorant of the holocaust. Ignorant of the war too. Ignorant of the facts.

    A book came out not long ago entitled "After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's".

    In it, they borrowed a lesson from Nazi Germany.

    "If you say it long enough,
    and you say it loud enough,
    people will even believe a lie".​

    This is often attributed to Joseph Goebbels:

    "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.
    This exact principle is laid out in the book "America after the Ball" in the chapters on (1) Desensitization, (2) Jamming, and (3) Conversion.

    Now, lets look at another historical view.

    It is a fact, that until sometime in late 1500's to early 1600's, religion also controlled the government. Religion heavily played into politics. The average citizen was totally ignorant as there was a very limited education system.

    In order to become "educated" you had to be born from Royalty, be rich, or go to a "seminary".

    The education system today is a sad state to what it was 250 years ago. By the time a person graduated from a "university" they were for all intents and purposes, a "Doctor". (Phd)

    Control government, check. Control education, check.

    There was no "free press" until 1776. Control the media, check.

    Keep the masses ignorant...

    From the start of the 2nd century until the 12th century, it was illegal to process the scriptures. More so from about 1199, it was said:

    "The depth of the divine Scriptures is such that not only the illiterate and uninitiated have difficulty understanding them, but also the educated and the gifted.

    It was also said:

    "We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament;

    And it was also ruled:

    "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."

    Here we have the third principle outlined well. Keep the masses ignorant of the facts.

    And the fact is, they did not want the Gospel in the hands of the masses. It was only then the "Gospel" (Good News) spread, buy putting it in the hands of the people.

    There is truth in this:
    “One believes things because one has been conditioned to believe them.”
    Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
    There has always been "the true Gospel", sadly, it took some 1500 years for the people to know it.

    upload_2017-10-31_2-57-51.jpeg

    So I see history repeating itself, yet again.

    How do you control the masses?

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  6. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    "You cannot believe in "faith alone."

    Hum...

    A powerful illustration of faith is given by August Hopkins Strong: “All the power to move the cars is in the locomotive. None of the power is in the couplings. Yet the locomotive with all its power cannot move one car without the couplings.”

    Faith, and faith alone is what saves.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck New Member

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    The only passage in the Bible that specifically addresses 'faith alone':

    24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
     
  8. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    I think that 'faith alone' can be a reality if one sees faith as obedience to God.

    Words can lead to a division between God's children and we should try to understand what another means by what they say.
     
  9. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    What about Romans 11:6?
    And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
     
  10. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Faith alone? Really. That doctrine may come from Paul, but not from Jesus. Remember the warning in Matthew 7:21? "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven." We can have the faith in the world, but if we fail to do the will of God, we will receive a shock when we stand before God and receive our sentence. Faith alone cannot save, for deeds are also a requirement, as Jesus warned. I may be a Protestant, but the Catholics and the Orthodox are right, both faith and good works should be emphasized, not just faith. Now none of us are perfect, so where does this leave us? Here again, the Catholics and the Orthodox are right when they say that certain grave sins can separate us from God in a way that puts our souls in jeopardy. I do not always agree on which sins are grave/mortal, but the basic theology is sound, as the Didache clearly lays out a list of sins, apparently those deemed to be serious, and this is supposed to be the oldest Christian document outside of the New Testament and it is believed that it was used to teach newcomers to the faith.

    I think we all know Christians who are/were habitual spousal abusers or God forbid, considering the news reports lately, some Christians are even habitual sex abusers. How likely do you think it is that these Christians will make it to Heaven? True, only God knows, but Jesus' warning is very scary. Obviously many that call him "Lord", will not be saved.....
     
  11. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Belief, belief in Jesus come from faith. Salvation comes from faith. Works flow from faith.

    There is no "checklist" in scriptures to verify who is and who isn't a "Christian".

    From a Jewish perspective, the scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees all appeared to upright.

    But Jesus knew they weren't.

    This same principle is at work today. There are literally millions who look like a Christian, talk like a Christian, and do good works, just like a Christian, but yet, they aren't.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  12. Danoded

    Danoded New Member

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    Salvation is by faith alone, which, in turn, inspires good works. There are no other requirements.
     
  13. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don’t think that Matthew 7:21 is about saved Christians. I think it is about people who think they will get to heaven by some other means than faith.
     
  14. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yup. I agree. Jesus Christ gives the Holy Spirit as a seal of the New Covenant.
     
  15. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Facts is and always will be, salvation is no other than Christ by faith.

    Sola Gratia, Solo Christo, Sola Fide, Soli Deo Gloria.

    Salvation by Grace alone, through Christ alone, by Faith alone, to the Glory of God!

    I'll preach and teach that until the day I die!

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
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