You be the judge!

[augustine32]

Augustine, it is very hard (nay, impossible) to "accruately represent "Calvinists". If I say that "God COMPELS/FORCES/IMPOSES saving-faith", I am taken to task for it; if I say "God forces/compels/imposes" a regenerated heart, again my Calvinist friends bristle; yet if God regenerates our hearts WITHOUT consent WITHOUT asking (without our even prior KNOWLEDGE), how is it not "forced or compelled or imposed"? If "saving faith frlows FROM (and consequents FROM) that unasked-unilaterally-God-regenerated-heart", if that faith is "unavoidable", flowing "invariably irresistibly" from that unilaterally (and unasked) regeneraated heart and we have NOTHING to do with our own "saving-faith", how is faith NOT "imposed-compelled-forced"? Do you see the difficulty in the discussion?

My point was not my "lack of understanding about Calvinism", but rather an opinion that "Calvinists do not understand their own position. IF that "regeneration" and "consequenting saving-faith" is irresistible/invariable/unavoidable, and IF those God has NOT regenerated perish irresistibly/invariably/unavoidably, then God both SAVES, and REPROBATES --- both are His decision.

HENCE, ONLY DOUBLE-PREDESTINATION EXISTS...

*sigh* Again you prove my point Ben. Calvinists can and do believe in double-predestination. That was where the part about reading our confessions would come in handy. The points in which calvinists and hyper-calvinists differ does not include (for the most part) reprobation. Try looking up hyper-calvinism on the internet.

And as to the imposed heart, I have no problem saying that regeneration is imposed. Consider...if a lion has set before him a steak and a salad and the steak is poisoned and will kill him, will the lion not still eat the steak? Now if a vet was to impose upon him the nature of a rabbit so that he would freely choose the good salad over the poisoned steak would that not be grace? Believing what I do about human nature it can only be the kindness of God to remove what inhibits us from coming to Him, namely our sinful nature. Once that nature is removed we will have faith to believe in Him. Following from that stance our position is quite understandable. You will have to prove otherwise about human nature to change my mind.