You Are Not Going To Heaven

[ThomasDa]

Where in the Bible does it ever say anything about us going to heaven? There is no scripture, in the Bible that says: I, you, we or anyone has gone or is going to heaven!

Jesus said no one has gone to heaven. Jo. 3:13 “ No man has ascended to heaven but”
Himself.

In Mat.5:5 we are told that the meek will inherit the earth. Does that that mean the meek are going to get a different reward than some others? I don’t think that can be shown from scripture.

When Christ returns He will “land,” if you will, on the Mount of Olives according to Zech.14:4 “And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.”

In Rev. 22:12 Jesus says that when He comes that He will bring His reward with Him. “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Now in Jo. 14:2-3 Jesus said that He was going to prepare a place or office for us, but He is going to bring it with Him when He returns. He does not say anything about us going to heaven to receive it.

Just because we are to receive heavenly gifts or a heavenly reward does not mean that we have to go to heaven to receive it.

Paul wrote in 1Cor. 2:9 But as it is written: “ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” Although we can not know everything about our future reward, God has seen fit to reveal the basics.

Jesus was born to be King Isa. 9:6-7 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Isa. 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, (i.e. Kingdom) For (or because)the EARTH shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.

The government shall be His responsibility; That government will have no end; Christ will sit on the throne of David,(a throne here on earth.) No harm will come in that Kingdom, because the knowledge of God will completely cover the earth. This Kingdom is obviously on earth. Enough said?

When Christ returns, He returns to set up His Kingdom. Note; Rev. 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” Rev. 20:3-7 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Christ will be on the earth at that time.

Daniel speaks of this time as a time when Christ will come and put an end to man’s misrule and set up a Kingdom that will rein forever. Dan. 7:27Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
Rulership will “be given to the saints of the Most High,” and they shall “live and reign with Christ for a thousand years.”

The Lord will reign from Jerusalem Isa. 24:23 Then the moon will be disgraced And the sun ashamed; For the LORD of hosts will reign On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem And before His elders, gloriously. Also in Isa. 8:18 Here am I and the children whom the LORD has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the LORD of hosts,
Who dwells in Mount Zion. (i.e. Jerusalem)

In prophecies about the Kingdom Isaiah says the word and the law will go out from Jerusalem. Isa. 2:2-3 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain (i.e. Kingdom)of the LORD’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains,(i.e. kingdoms of this world) And shall be exalted above the hills;(i.e. smaller kingdoms) And all nations shall flow to it. 3 Many people shall come and say, “ Come, and let us go up to the mountain(Kingdom) of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

This Kingdom will go on to restore this earth. Isa. 51:3For the LORD will comfort Zion,
He will comfort all her waste places; He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it,
Thanksgiving and the voice of melody. Note also; Isa. 35:1The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them, And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose;
There are dozens of scriptures about the time when Christ will come and set up His Kingdom on this earth.

At that time the people will, once again, begin to obey God and keep his Feasts and learn what they are really about. Note; Zech. 14:16-19 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

In Titus 3:7 and many, many other places we learn that part of our reward is eternal life. “that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

We will be heirs, or part owners in the Kingdom of God. Ja. 2:5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? What does an heir do? An heir inherits things. Once one inherits something they own it.

Heb. 2:10-11 says; “For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Read that again. Sons, brothers? WOW! Now in Eph. 4:11-13 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

• 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith
• and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
• to a perfect man,
• to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ

1Jo. 3:2 Says that we will be like Jesus. “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. Remember that Jesus is the first born of many brethren. Ro. 8:29

Receiving Eternal life, becoming brothers of Christ, being joint heirs to the Kingdom and receiving authority to rule with Jesus, in His Kingdom at His return? These are not small rewards. Are there more that we don’t know about? I have no doubt, but at this time this is more than I can wrap my head around. I will be more than happy to serve Christ, in His Kingdom, here on this earth for 1,000 years or however long He says.

 

[Solidlyhere]

This is only about the 40th Thread about this same thing.

Welcome to the Club.

 

[Zaac]

Where in the Bible does it ever say anything about us going to heaven? There is no scripture, in the Bible that says: I, you, we or anyone has gone or is going to heaven!

Jesus said no one has gone to heaven. Jo. 3:13 “ No man has ascended to heaven but”
Himself.

In Mat.5:5 we are told that the meek will inherit the earth. Does that that mean the meek are going to get a different reward than some others? I don’t think that can be shown from scripture.

When Christ returns He will “land,” if you will, on the Mount of Olives according to Zech.14:4 “And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.”

In Rev. 22:12 Jesus says that when He comes that He will bring His reward with Him. “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Now in Jo. 14:2-3 Jesus said that He was going to prepare a place or office for us, but He is going to bring it with Him when He returns. He does not say anything about us going to heaven to receive it.

Just because we are to receive heavenly gifts or a heavenly reward does not mean that we have to go to heaven to receive it.

Paul wrote in 1Cor. 2:9 But as it is written: “ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” Although we can not know everything about our future reward, God has seen fit to reveal the basics.

Jesus was born to be King Isa. 9:6-7 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Isa. 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, (i.e. Kingdom) For (or because)the EARTH shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.

The government shall His responsibility; That government will have no end; Christ will sit on the throne of David,(a throne here on earth.) No harm will come in that Kingdom, because the knowledge of God will completely cover the earth. This Kingdom is obviously on earth. Enough said?

When Christ returns, He returns to set up His Kingdom. Note; Rev. 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” Rev. 20:3-7 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Daniel speaks of this time as a time when Christ will come and put an end to man’s misrule and set up a Kingdom that will rein forever. Dan. 7:27Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
Rulership will “be given to the saints of the Most High,” and they shall “live and reign with Christ for a thousand years.”

The Lord will reign from Jerusalem Isa. 24:23 Then the moon will be disgraced And the sun ashamed; For the LORD of hosts will reign On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem And before His elders, gloriously. Also in Isa. 8:18 Here am I and the children whom the LORD has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the LORD of hosts,
Who dwells in Mount Zion. (i.e. Jerusalem)

In prophecies about the Kingdom Isaiah says the word and the law will go out from Jerusalem. Isa. 2:2-3 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain (i.e. Kingdom)of the LORD’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains,(i.e. kingdoms of this world) And shall be exalted above the hills;(i.e. smaller kingdoms) And all nations shall flow to it. 3 Many people shall come and say, “ Come, and let us go up to the mountain(Kingdom) of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

This Kingdom will go on to restore this earth. Isa. 51:3For the LORD will comfort Zion,
He will comfort all her waste places; He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it,
Thanksgiving and the voice of melody. Note also; Isa. 35:1The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them, And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose;
There are dozens of scriptures about the time when Christ will come and set up His Kingdom on this earth.

At that time the people will, once again, begin to obey God and keep his Feasts and learn what they are really about. Note; Zech. 14:16-19 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

In Titus 3:7 and many, many other places we learn that part of our reward is eternal life. “that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

We will be heirs, or part owners in the Kingdom of God. Ja. 2:5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? What does an heir do? An heir inherits things. Once one inherits something they own it.

Heb. 2:10-11 says; “For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Read that again. Sons, brothers? WOW! Now in Eph. 4:11-13 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

• 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith
• and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
• to a perfect man,
• to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ

1Jo. 3:2 Says that we will be like Jesus. “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. Remember that Jesus is the first born of many brethren. Ro. 8:29

Receiving Eternal life, becoming brothers of Christ, being joint heirs to the Kingdom and receiving authority to rule with Jesus, in His Kingdom at His return? These are not small rewards. Are there more that we don’t know about? I have no doubt, but at this time this is more than I can wrap my head around. I will be more than happy to serve Christ, in His Kingdom, here on this earth for 1,000 years or however long He says.

So when a Christian dies, where does the Word says he is?

 

[SnapCount]

Mat 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your REWARD IN HEAVEN: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

[ThomasDa]

Paul wrote in 1Cor. 2:9 But as it is written: “ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” Although we can not know everything about our future reward, God has seen fit to reveal the basics.

Jesus was born to be King Isa. 9:6-7 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Isa. 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, (i.e. Kingdom) For (or because)the EARTH shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.

The government shall His responsibility; That government will have no end; Christ will sit on the throne of David,(a throne here on earth.) No harm will come in that Kingdom, because the knowledge of God will completely cover the earth. This Kingdom is obviously on earth. Enough said?

When Christ returns, He returns to set up His Kingdom. Note; Rev. 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” Rev. 20:3-7 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Daniel speaks of this time as a time when Christ will come and put an end to man’s misrule and set up a Kingdom that will rein forever. Dan. 7:27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
Rulership will “be given to the saints of the Most High,” and they shall “live and reign with Christ for a thousand years.”

The Lord will reign from Jerusalem Isa. 24:23 Then the moon will be disgraced And the sun ashamed; For the LORD of hosts will reign On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem And before His elders, gloriously. Also in Isa. 8:18 Here am I and the children whom the LORD has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the LORD of hosts,
Who dwells in Mount Zion. (i.e. Jerusalem)

In prophecies about the Kingdom Isaiah says the word and the law will go out from Jerusalem. Isa. 2:2-3 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain (i.e. Kingdom)of the LORD’s house Shall be established on the top of the mountains,(i.e. kingdoms of this world) And shall be exalted above the hills;(i.e. smaller kingdoms) And all nations shall flow to it. 3 Many people shall come and say, “ Come, and let us go up to the mountain(Kingdom) of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

This Kingdom will go on to restore this earth. Isa. 51:3For the LORD will comfort Zion,
He will comfort all her waste places; He will make her wilderness like Eden, And her desert like the garden of the LORD; Joy and gladness will be found in it,
Thanksgiving and the voice of melody. Note also; Isa. 35:1The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them, And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose;
There are dozens of scriptures about the time when Christ will come and set up His Kingdom on this earth.

At that time the people will, once again, begin to obey God and keep his Feasts and learn what they are really about. Note; Zech. 14:16-19 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

In Titus 3:7 and many, many other places we learn that part of our reward is eternal life. “that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

We will be heirs, or part owners in the Kingdom of God. Ja. 2:5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? What does an heir do? An heir inherits tings. Once one inherits something they own it.

Heb. 2:10-11 says; “For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Read that again. Sons, brothers? WOW! Now in Eph. 4:11-13 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

• 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith
• and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
• to a perfect man,
• to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ

1Jo. 3:2 Says that we will be like Jesus. “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. Remember that Jesus is the first born of many brethren. Ro. 8:29

In Rev. 22:12 Jesus says that when He comes that He will bring His reward with Him. “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. We can see here that Jesus will bring our reward with Him when He returns. Just because our reward is in heaven does not mean that we are going go there to receive it.

Receiving Eternal life, becoming brothers of Christ, being joint heirs to the Kingdom and receiving authority to rule with Jesus, in His Kingdom at His return. These are not small rewards. Are there more that we don’t know about? I have no doubt, but at this time this is more than I can wrap my head around. I will be more than happy to serve Christ, in His Kingdom, here on this earth for 1,000 years or however long He says.

 

[nestoj]

Luke 23:43




And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.



nestoj
God helps

 

[SnapCount]

Are you distinguishing between heaven and the kingdom of God?

 

[ThomasDa]

Lk. 23:43And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
This tired old argument has been used so many times.
We know from all of the rest of the Bible that the way you are reading this verse has to be wrong. Read the other posts.
There was no punctuation in the Greek. Jesus was not telling the man that he would be in paradise with Him that day. Jesus was telling the man that He was telling the him that, on that DAY.
Jesus did not go to paradise that day.
Remember what Jesus told Mary in Jo. 20:17 This was 3 days later and He had not gone there yet.
Jo. 20:17Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”
So did Jesus lie to the man, of course not. Then what is the truth.
If you will put the comma in the proper place you will see.
Lk. 23:43 Should read.And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”
You can't discount the whole Bible over one verse. You need to look and see what you are doing wrong.
"For the scripture can not be broken" Jo. 10:35

 

[ThomasDa]

You can read the Bible from Gen. to Rev and won't find anything about us going to heaven, but you will find plenty about Jesus comming again and setting up His Kingdom on this earth and us being part of it.

 

[nestoj]

Lk. 23:43And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
This tired old argument has been used so many times.
We know from all of the rest of the Bible that the way you are reading this verse has to be wrong. Read the other posts.
There was no punctuation in the Greek. Jesus was not telling the man that he would be in paradise with Him that day. Jesus was telling the man that He was telling the him that, on that DAY.
Jesus did not go to paradise that day.
Remember what Jesus told Mary in Jo. 20:17 This was 3 days later and He had not gone there yet.
Jo. 20:17Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”
So did Jesus lie to the man, of course not. Then what is the truth.
If you will put the comma in the proper place you will see.
Lk. 23:43 Should read.And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”
You can't discount the whole Bible over one verse. You need to look and see what you are doing wrong.
"For the scripture can not be broken" Jo. 10:35

Who is Jesus? Who is Trinity? How many persons are Trinity? Is Jesus God and one with the other two persons? Was Heaven without God while Jesus was on earth? Would the one who is with Father be with Christ too ([SIZE=-1]"I and the Father are one."[/SIZE])?

There are no boundaries around God.

nestoj
God helps

 

[ThomasDa]

God is a family.

There are many Scriptures on the subject let’s look at a few.

Mat. 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. You know God calls people and things what they are; so if God calls them sons of God, they are, or will be sons of God.

In 2Cor. 6:18 God says this to those who respond to Him by coming out of this world. “I will be a Father to you and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”

Now in Ro. 8:29...I want you to think Gen 1:26 while we read this...You know where God said that man was created in His likeness....You might say man was predestine to be like God.

Ro.8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image {or likeness} of His Son, that He (Jesus) might be the firstborn among many brethren...And then in Heb. 2:11 Jesus says He is not ashamed to call us His brothers.

In Eph. 3:14-15 We are told that this Family is named after God the Father.

Father? Firstborn? Sons? Daughters? Brothers? Family name? That sounds like a family to me.

There is however, a damnable lie out there that nearly all professing Christians believe. It’s known as the trinity doctrine. This teaching
limits God...denies His plan for a family.

The catholic encyclopedia explains it this way. (and who would know more about the trinity than the Catholics, after all they invented it) and I quote...
“The trinity is unalterable forever.” That means that it’s sealed, closed, unable to grow.

The article gives no biblical reason for believing it, but if you don’t believe it, you’re going to hell... I guess it doesn’t have to make sense.

The trinity is a GIANT lie, that if believed, won’t let you understand the truth about God or the truth of God.

When Jesus came in the flesh, He revealed the Father... In Jo. 1:18 The Bible says “No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him”. Before that time God the Father was unknown to mankind in general.

Here Jesus reveals the Father, if the Holy Spirit was a 3rd individual in the Godhead, this was certainly the time to reveal him too...Don’t you think?

Although the people didn’t know who Jesus was when He came in the flesh, they knew Him in the O.T. as the I am who worked with Moses and as the God who led the children of Israel 40 years in the wilderness.

1Cor. 10 speaks to this. Verse,1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

In Jo.1 Starting in verse 1 we read...In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. {this was another ideal time to tell us about this 3rd individual if it was true}

In John 8 Jesus plainly says that He was the God of the O.T….It might not be as plain to people today as it was to the people He was talking to, but it was plain to them. Jo. 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” That of course being the one who called Moses from the burning bush. The I was, the I am, and the I will be i.e. the Eternal One. They knew exactly what He meant...In verse 59 they tried to stone Him for it.

We need to handle God’s word with great care.

There are well over 100 scriptures in the N.T. that refer to God the Father and The Son, Jesus Christ and none that mention the Holy Spirit as a 3rd person in this relationship.

The greeting “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ”... or something similar to this is used by Paul in Romans... 1st and 2nd Corinthians...Galatians...Ephesians...Philippians...Colossians...1st and 2nd Thessalonians...1st and 2nd Timothy...Titus...and Philemon. Similar greetings are given in James, 1st John, 2nd John...Jude...and Revelation. All of these can be found within the first 7 verses of these books.

These all seem to me like ideal times to have mentioned the 3rd member of a trinity if one existed, but nothing! You reckon they forgot?

In the 4th and 5th chapters of Rev. there is quite a description of “The Throne Room in Heaven.” In this description we see God on His throne, 24 elders on their thrones, 4 living creatures, and the Lamb, Jesus Christ receiving the prophecy of all prophecies. It seems every one of import was there at this most important event.

Everyone that is, except the Holy Spirit. Do those who teach this think his invitation got lost in the Mail or something?

It should make everybody angry who loves God and his message of salvation. {that message being, that He is bringing many sons to glory}
Heb. 2:10

But then Satan {the father of lies} isn’t going to let a small thing like the truth get in his way.

Now the trinitarian idea has been around for a long time in pagan religions, around the world.

And though it had been kicked around for a while...
It didn’t really get started good in Christendom until 325 A.D. at the council of Nicaea. This council wasn’t called by the religious leaders of the day but by the Pagan Emperor Constantine. His only concern was to quell a dispute among the people, so he wouldn’t have riots on his hands. He wasn’t concerned about truth being taught in the church.

The proponents of the trinitarian teaching have no truth, no facts, and no proof; only blind faith.

Some cite parts of 1Jo. 5:7-8 which no reliable manuscript contains. 1Jo.5:7-8 should read 7 For there are three that bear witness the Spirit the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

{Of course they agree. The water represents our baptisms, the blood cleanses us of our sins, and God gives us His Spirit to help us along the way. All three are major factors in our conversion. Of course they agree!}

The words added to 1Jo.5:7-8 were added to the margin of the Latin Vulgate in about 545 A.D. then into Greek in about 1215A.D. The added words are totally bogus. They’re meant to lead people into the false doctrine of the trinity.

By the time the KJV was published, the people who worked on it were so steeped in the trinity doctrine, that they thought they’d help God out by referring to the Holy Spirit as he, or him, or himself.

In Greek, as in some other languages nouns are assigned gender, although the gender assigned to something doesn’t mean that, that particular thing is male or female.

It’s a grammatical thing that’s foreign to those of us who only speak English.

Now in the N.T. the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God is referred to 107 times by my count and 102 are assigned the neuter status...or IT status, if you will.

Five times John uses a term that was assigned a masculine gender. This word is translated “The Comforter.”

On top of that, the Hebrew word used in the O.T. is assigned a feminine gender...How does that work? For 3/4 of the Bible the Holy Spirit is a female?...and then in the last 1/4 of the Bible, (because of a word use 5 times that’s assigned a masculine gender) it’s a male?

I guess it doesn’t have to make sense.

So basically, they have taken a few words that were added hundreds of years after the Bible was written, and 5 out of 107 references to the Holy Spirit in the N.T. that were assigned a masculine gender in Greek and built a false doctrine on it.

See what I mean about Satan not letting the truth get in the way of his lies?
Truth?...What truth? The political spin doctors of today couldn’t hold a candle to this guy.

I hope we all treasure the basic doctrines God has given us. They are a light in this dark world...they are a high wall that protect us from the evil one.
They ARE truly, perils of GREAT price.

Nestjo, where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[nephilimiyr]

You can read the Bible from Gen. to Rev and won't find anything about us going to heaven, but you will find plenty about Jesus comming again and setting up His Kingdom on this earth and us being part of it.

I basically agree with you. I believe God created man to rule earth, that is the purpose He gave us and that purpose has not changed and will not change. Because of the decree God made about man's purpose, man will always have dominion on earth, forever!

However, until that day that we actually realise what our inheritance is, we will continue to die, and when we die I tend to believe our soul and spirit goes to heaven. After all, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

 

[TraderJack]

Nestjo, there is no trinity

God is a family.

There are many Scriptures on the subject let’s look at a few.

Mat. 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, sons of God is not saying that those whom belong to God are ontologically of the same Divine Essence as God. "sons of God" or "children of God" is in the context of belonging to God and having been Redeemed by Christ.

The Trinity is in reference to the ontological nature of God.

I don't know what kind of church you belong to, but I advise you run, not walk, but run like a man from a burning building from it.

 

[ThomasDa]

When we die, if we are right with God it's a done deal, it's a sure thing, in God's eyes it's done. We will be with Him in the next second of our conciousness. That will be at our resurrection.
Sleep well.

 

[nestoj]

God is a family.

There are many Scriptures on the subject let’s look at a few.

Mat. 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. You know God calls people and things what they are; so if God calls them sons of God, they are,or will be sons of God.

In 2Cor. 6:18 God says this to those who respond to Him by coming out of this world. “I will be a Father to you and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”

Now in Ro. 8:29...I want you to think Gen 1:26 while we read this...You know where God said that man was created in His likeness....You might say man was predestine to be like God.

Ro.8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image {or likeness} of His Son, that He (Jesus) might be the firstborn among many brethren...And then in Heb. 2:11Jesus says He is not ashamed to callus His brothers.

In Eph. 3:14-15 We are told that this Family is named after God the Father.

Father? Firstborn? Sons? Daughters? Brothers? Family name? That sounds like a family to me.

There is however, a damnable lie out there that nearly all professing Christians believe. It’s known as the trinity doctrine. This teaching
limits God...denies His plan for a family.

The catholic encyclopedia explains it this way. (and who would know more about the trinity than the Catholics, after all they invented it) and I quote...
“The trinity is unalterable forever.” That means that it’s sealed, closed, unable to grow.

The article gives no biblical reason for believing it, but if you don’t believe it, you’re going to hell... I guess it doesn’t have to make sense.

The trinity is a GIANT lie, that if believed, won’t let you understand the truth about God or the truth of God.

When Jesus came in the flesh, He revealed the Father... In Jo. 1:18 The Bible says “No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him”. Before that time God the Father was unknown to mankind in general.

Here Jesus reveals the Father, if the Holy Spirit was a 3rd individual in the Godhead, this was certainly the time to reveal him too...Don’t you think?

Although the people didn’t know who Jesus was when He came in the flesh, they knew Him in the O.T. as the I am who worked with Moses and as the God who led the children of Israel 40 years in the wilderness.

1Cor. 10 speaks to this. Verse,1Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloudand in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

In Jo.1 Starting in verse 1 we read...In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. {this was another ideal time to tell us about this 3rd individual if it was true}

In John 8 Jesus plainly says that He was the God of the O.T….It might not be as plain to people today as it was to the people He was talking to, but it was plain to them. Jo. 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” That of course being the one who called Moses from the burning bush. The I was, the I am, and the I will bei.e. the Eternal One. They knew exactly what He meant...In verse 59 they tried to stone Him for it.

We need to handle God’s word with great care.

There are well over 100 scriptures in the N.T. that refer to God the Father and The Son, Jesus Christ and none that mention the Holy Spirit as a 3rd person in this relationship.

The greeting “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ”... or something similar to this is used by Paul in Romans... 1st and 2nd Corinthians...Galatians...Ephesians...Philippians...Colossians...1st and 2nd Thessalonians...1st and 2nd Timothy...Titus...and Philemon. Similar greetings are given in James, 1st John, 2nd John...Jude...and Revelation. All of these can be found within the first 7 verses of these books.

These all seem to me like ideal times to have mentioned the 3rd member of a trinity if one existed, but nothing! You reckon they forgot?

In the 4th and 5th chapters of Rev. there is quite a description of “The Throne Room in Heaven.” In this description we see God on His throne, 24 elders on their thrones, 4 living creatures, and the Lamb, Jesus Christ receiving the prophecy of all prophecies. It seems every one of import was there at this most important event.

Everyone that is, except the Holy Spirit. Do those who teach this think his invitation got lost in the Mail or something?

It should make everybody angry who loves God and his message of salvation. {that message being, that He is bringing many sons to glory}
Heb. 2:10

But then Satan {the father of lies} isn’t going to let a small thing like the truth get in his way.

Now the trinitarian idea has been around for a long time in pagan religions, around the world.

And though it had been kicked around for a while...
It didn’t really get started good in Christendom until 325 A.D. at the council of Nicaea. This council wasn’t called by the religious leaders of the day but by the Pagan Emperor Constantine. His only concern was to quell a dispute among the people, so he wouldn’t have riots on his hands. He wasn’t concerned about truth being taught in the church.

The proponents of the trinitarian teaching have no truth, no facts, and no proof; only blind faith.

Some cite parts of 1Jo. 5:7-8 which no reliable manuscript contains. 1Jo.5:7-8 should read 7 For there are three that bear witness the Spirit the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

{Of course they agree. The water represents our baptisms, the blood cleanses us of our sins, and God gives us His Spirit to help us along the way. All three are major factors in our conversion. Of course they agree!}

The words added to 1Jo.5:7-8 were added to the margin of the Latin Vulgate in about 545 A.D. then into Greek in about 1215A.D. The added words are totally bogus. They’re meant to lead people into the false doctrine of the trinity.

By the time the KJV was published, the people who worked on it were so steeped in the trinity doctrine, that they thought they’d help God out by referring to the Holy Spirit as he, or him, or himself.

In Greek, as in some other languages nouns are assigned gender, although the gender assigned to something doesn’t mean that, that particular thing is male or female.

It’s a grammatical thing that’s foreign to those of us who only speak English.

Now in the N.T. the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God is referred to 107 times by my count and 102 are assigned the neuter status...or IT status, if you will.

Five times John uses a term that was assigned a masculine gender. This word is translated “The Comforter.”

On top of that, the Hebrew word used in the O.T. is assigned a feminine gender...How does that work? For 3/4 of the Bible the Holy Spirit is a female?...and then in the last 1/4 of the Bible, (because of a word use 5 times that’s assigned a masculine gender) it’s a male?

I guess it doesn’t have to make sense.

So basically, they have taken a few words that were added hundreds of years after the Bible was written, and 5 out of 107 references to the Holy Spirit in the N.T. that were assigned a masculine gender in Greek and built a false doctrine on it.

See what I mean about Satan not letting the truth get in the way of his lies?
Truth?...What truth? The political spin doctors of today couldn’t hold a candle to this guy.

I hope we all treasure the basic doctrines God has given us. They are a light in this dark world...they are a high wall that protect us from the evil one.
They AREtruly, perils of GREAT price.
Nestjo, where do you come up with this stuff?

Is Jesus God? Is the Father God? Brother, the advice you gave to me: "Look where you are wrong.", I think you should apply it to yourself to.

nestoj
God helps

 

[nestoj]

[/font][/size]


Hmmmmmmmmmm, sons of God is not saying that those whom belong to God are ontologically of the same Divine Essence as God. "sons of God" or "children of God" is in the context of belonging to God and having been Redeemed by Christ.

The Trinity is in reference to the ontological nature of God.

I don't know what kind of church you belong to, but I advise you run, not walk, but run like a man from a burning building from it.

turn the reps on.

nestoj
God helps

@Edit: Hey, you have them turned on, but, where's the hand????
@Edit2: Resolved.

 

[ThomasDa]

Read it any way you like. I'm just saying what tha Bible says, not what men say the Bible says.

 

[Zecryphon]

Read it any way you like. I'm just saying what tha Bible says, not what men say the Bible says.

But your a man telling others what the Bible says. So if you were consistent in the application of your standard, and applied it back upon yourself you would realize that there is no reason we should believe you, since men who tell others what the Bible says are apparently not to be trusted, according to you.

 

[ECHELON]

But your a man telling others what the Bible says. So if you were consistent in the application of your standard, and applied it back upon yourself you would realize that there is no reason we should believe you, since men who tell others what the Bible says are apparently not to be trusted, according to you.

That's cute but do you have anything by way of scripture that contradicts what he is saying?

 

[TraderJack]

turn the reps on.

nestoj
God helps

@Edit: Hey, you have them turned on, but, where's the hand????
@Edit2: Resolved.

This guy sounds very much like a Mormon. If he is then he is fraudulently using the Christian icon and should not be posting in here.