yet ANOTHER question

[Eddie L]

The Bible also says that Pharoah hardened his own heart, matter of a fact, that is mentioned before it says that God hardened his heart.

God told Moses that He would harden Pharoah's heart before Moses spoke to Pharoah.

The LORD said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. (Exodus 4:21)
​

 

[dogs4thewin]

God told Moses that He would harden Pharoah's heart before Moses spoke to Pharoah.

The LORD said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. (Exodus 4:21)
​

It also says after a few of the wonders that Pharoh harden his own heart. I know for a fact you can run from God since it has been done. I can know things are going to happen and not cause them directly. For example, each year my major in college has a cookout in the fall. I can know it's going to happen and not control it directly. I can also know PT )The dean) wants me to come and CHOOSE not to come. Let me asks you a question Why does the Bible say it is God's will that none shall parish? If He chooses some to saved then clearly the rest will parish and if it says none then that implies it means just that. If the elect cannot and will not parish then that makes no sense.

 

[Elderone]

My suggestion is that you get The Westminster Confession of Faith and read it. The Confession with proof texts is a reliable summary of what the Bible teaches, so have a Bible handy and read the texts.

You don't seem to be interested in believing the help you have been given, refuting, or questioning everything.

Take some responsibility and start learning for yourself.

 

[kenrapoza]

Do you realize that you're actually promoting open theism?

 

[JM]

Do you realize that you're actually promoting open theism?

It is the only real and valid conclusion to Arminianism.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Do you realize that you're actually promoting open theism?

What?

 

[kenrapoza]

What?

Well, there is a wikipedia article on it here. I'm not sure if you will find it to be an accessible introduction, but it should at least explain the concept.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Well, there is a wikipedia article on it here. I'm not sure if you will find it to be an accessible introduction, but it should at least explain the concept.

so you are saying that I am saying God doesn't know everything?

 

[JM]

so you are saying that I am saying God doesn't know everything?

It seems you believe God is all learning, not all knowing.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It seems you believe God is all learning, not all knowing. All learning? no I know He is all knowing but He does not force us to accept His grace or follow His will for our lives.

All learning? no I know He is all knowing but He does not force us to accept His grace or follow His will for our lives. For example, I feel that He wants me ( wills me) to go to church mid-week for their mid-week service however I do not wish to go and He has not made me go yet, and even my mother who would like for me to go, however as an adult she no longer pushes the issue.

 

[JM]

Even if your understanding is correct God created a mass of people He KNOWS will end up in hell but He created them anyway.

What you feel is irreverent to the discussion since we are talking about biblical doctrine and not what you feel is important to God.

 

[dollarsbill]

Exodus 4:21 (NASB)
21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

 

[kenrapoza]

All learning? no I know He is all knowing but He does not force us to accept His grace or follow His will for our lives. For example, I feel that He wants me ( wills me) to go to church mid-week for their mid-week service however I do not wish to go and He has not made me go yet, and even my mother who would like for me to go, however as an adult she no longer pushes the issue.

Ok, maybe this can be a starting point for us to focus the discussion and bit and get some clarity in this thread. Calvinists don't believe that God is forcing us to do things against our will. What we DO believe is that God's grace makes us alive apart from our works and compels us to respond to Him in faith. At that point, our will is renewed, though it is not without remaining corruption.

I'm sure you will recall when Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave after he had been dead a couple days and his body was stinking up the tomb. Jesus said, "Lazarus, come forth!" and Lazarus came forth. Until the power of the Word of Christ made Lazarus alive, he was as dead as a doornail. He couldn't come to Christ for resurrection. He couldn't even decide to obey Christ. Jesus couldn't ask a dead man to cooperate with him so that the two of them working together could get Lazarus on his feet again. According to the scriptures, we are dead in our trespasses and sins. Spiritually dead. What can a dead man do? What did Lazarus bring to the table aside from death and corruption? He brought nothing that contributed to him being raised from the dead.

 

[JM]

ken, I have already corrected ALLorNOTHING by quoting the 1689 on free will and the poster refuses to be accept the correction, preferring to offer a staw man argument instead.

 

[Eddie L]

I think ALLorNothing is younger than we think, because he is insisting to think about this subject in very simple terms. To honestly consider this stuff, you have to dive a little deeper.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I think ALLorNothing is younger than we think, because he is insisting to think about this subject in very simple terms. To honestly consider this stuff, you have to dive a little deeper.

I know I or anyone else can say anything online but my age is actuate I was born summer 91 puts me at 21 does it not?

 

[twin1954]

I know I or anyone else can say anything online but my age is actuate I was born summer 91 puts me at 21 does it not?

You seem to be the typical 21 year old. Knowing everything and thinking you can teach us older folks. When the reality is that your brain isn't even fully formed yet.

 

[Elderone]

We have all heard of the various generations, baby boomers, and the X's, Y's and all the others. Recently I have heard they call the present group from 18 to 25-30 the Low Information generation.

Very sad, but it seems to be turning out that way.

 

[twin1954]

We have all heard of the various generations, baby boomers, and the X's, Y's and all the others. Recently I have heard they call the present group from 18 to 25-30 the Low Information generation.

Very sad, but it seems to be turning out that way.

Though I am so old that my memory is failing I do remember being a 21 year old and full of spunk having the tiger by the tail on a downhill slide. Boy did I think I knew all there was to know and had no qualms about letting anyone know that I did.

I remember the shock I felt when I realized that my dad was actully smart and had forgotten more than I would ever know.

 

[Elderone]

Though I am so old that my memory is failing I do remember being a 21 year old and full of spunk having the tiger by the tail on a downhill slide. Boy did I think I knew all there was to know and had no qualms about letting anyone know that I did.

I remember the shock I felt when I realized that my dad was actully smart and had forgotten more than I would ever know.

Lack of experience is not what is being talked about.