Yeshua, Lord of Hosts

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Zech 8:20 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: 21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also. 22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord. 23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go (walk) with you: for we have heard that God is with you.


What surprised me, what I noticed about these scriptures was the "WHO", the subject of these verses?

Answer:
Verse 20 – The Lord of Hosts
Verse 21 – The Lord of Hosts
Verse 22 - The Lord of Hosts
Verse 23 – The Lord of Hosts

If all the verses quoted above is speaking about “The Lord of Hosts” then WHO is the JEW whose skirt men will take a hold of? Who is the one men say they will walk with and who is the one men say “God is with Him”?

Answer: The Lord of Hosts !

Amazingly, we are told in verse 23 that “The Lord of Hosts” IS A JEW !
For thousands of years men have assumed verse 23 was talking about any Jewish man, but that is not the case here! For the focus is on one Being who is spoken of in these verses NOT a whole nation of Jewish men.

In verse 23 we have a Prophesy that the Lord Himself would come as a man but not just any man … a JEWISH Man !
 
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We know the Scripture says He comes as a man because of
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel..
Also the LORD says He is the only Savior, and He is. He was in Yeshua reconciling the world to Himself; as our Savior. He is our Lord of Hosts.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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What surprised me, what I noticed about these scriptures was the "WHO", the subject of these verses?

Answer:
Verse 20 – The Lord of Hosts
Verse 21 – The Lord of Hosts
Verse 22 - The Lord of Hosts
Verse 23 – The Lord of Hosts

If all the verses quoted above is speaking about “The Lord of Hosts” then WHO is the JEW whose skirt men will take a hold of? Who is the one men say they will walk with and who is the one men say “God is with Him”?

Answer: The Lord of Hosts !

Amazingly, we are told in verse 23 that “The Lord of Hosts” IS A JEW !
For thousands of years men have assumed verse 23 was talking about any Jewish man, but that is not the case here! For the focus is on one Being who is spoken of in these verses NOT a whole nation of Jewish men.

In verse 23 we have a Prophesy that the Lord Himself would come as a man but not just any man … a JEWISH Man !

It is speaking of Jesus BECAUSE he was a Jew.


Those ten men from every nation make up a legal congregation, and I have no doubts at all that it symbolizes the ten lost tribes.

Being that the ten lost tribes went into the nations and became gentiles, that they would also come back and then grab the garment saying,'' Teach us, teach us.''

The point being that the nation of Jews become as priests, each one of them.


I think.


Each gentile that is out there needs a Jew, but there is hardly enough Jews to go around, and that's what I see, that each Jew will take on a congregation himself.




After the Passover, the levites stood in the place for the firstborn in order to redeem the firstborn just as a Passover lamb redeemed the first born.


But in the book of Numbers where the count was made, there was not enough priests for every first born son, and so if you didn't have the name of your own personal priest, you had to pay the temple tax.

And that seems like a very sad thing indeed, that you are standing amongst the firstborn sons when they would all be redeemed, and so we see the count of the first born sons and the count of the priests, and you would be left standing there after all the priests had been taken.



But that was then, and while they were showing the first born and a plan of redemption by showing the first born then, in the New Testament it has been symbolized that the first born show gentiles, so that every gentile would need the name of a priest to stand in his stead to redeem him as a firstborn.

And while it is true that Jesus stands in our stead as a redeemer of the firstborn son, It still does not take the need away for every firstborn son to be mated with a Jew, or Priest.


That's what I think, that every gentile has Jesus standing as a priest who redeemed them as a firstborn is redeemed, it doesn't take away the idea that each gentile should have a Jew standing with him.



I put this to the test myself, and I found a Jew who didn't even believe in Jesus, and I talked him into an agreement that we had become one, that a Jew and a gentile make a whole.

He would agree with me that it changed both our lives, I know that it made all the difference in the world to me, in as much as to say that before that point, I never had the Holy spirit, and after that point, I did.

It was the first time I felt whole since I have been alive, and what is the outcome to the whole world?





Will they also go out and find a Jew and beg him to become as one people?


That's what all the prophecies say, that the whole world with gather the wealth of the world to bring and sit at the feet of Judah.

That ten men will grasp the sleeve of a Jew{every Jew}.

That the congregation{being ten virgins} of believers in Jesus will awake, and 5 of them will not have prepared, and what is it that they are told to go and buy?

It is oil, but what is the oil, and how may a person reach into his pocket, pull out cash and gain anything spiritually?










How can a gentile progress in the eyes of God buy paying literal money?

We are shown how in many places.

Isaiah 66

Then they shall bring all your brethren from all the nations as a grain offering to the LORD, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD. 21"I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the LORD.






Gentiles giving their own time and money to carry the Jews{each one} back to their place, and by spending their money and having a heart to love the people of God, some of them will become Levites.




The offer is not to those who simply believe in Jesus, but the offer is to those who spend their money, and who have a heart to fulfill the promises about God's people.


And if the prophets are correct in showing that the world must carry all the children back to their land, and if the prophets are showing the wealth of the world being put at the feet of Judah, then it is also showing ten men grasping the sleeve of every Jew.
 
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CherubRam

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What surprised me, what I noticed about these scriptures was the "WHO", the subject of these verses?

Answer:
Verse 20 – The Lord of Hosts
Verse 21 – The Lord of Hosts
Verse 22 - The Lord of Hosts
Verse 23 – The Lord of Hosts

If all the verses quoted above is speaking about “The Lord of Hosts” then WHO is the JEW whose skirt men will take a hold of? Who is the one men say they will walk with and who is the one men say “God is with Him”?

Answer: The Lord of Hosts !

Amazingly, we are told in verse 23 that “The Lord of Hosts” IS A JEW !
For thousands of years men have assumed verse 23 was talking about any Jewish man, but that is not the case here! For the focus is on one Being who is spoken of in these verses NOT a whole nation of Jewish men.

In verse 23 we have a Prophesy that the Lord Himself would come as a man but not just any man … a JEWISH Man !

That fits if you believe in Trinitarianism, otherwise, it is the messiah whom the Lord of Host has sent. The "Ten" is a parabolic equivalent to the "Ten Virgins" in the last days. "Ten" being the world divided into ten parts.
 
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CherubRam

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We know the Scripture says He comes as a man because of Also the LORD says He is the only Savior, and He is. He was in Yeshua reconciling the world to Himself; as our Savior. He is our Lord of Hosts.

This study is done from the N.I.V Exhaustive Concordance.

The two words of this study are, (PRINCE-S) and LEAD-ER-S-ING).

The Hebrew word (NASIY). Ref # 5954 is used 39 times for the word (PRINCE-S).

And the Hebrew word (SAR). Ref # 8569 is used 51 times for the word (PRINCE-S).

As you can see NASIY and SAR are very different words.

The word SAR is used a total of 421 times; 78 times as officials, 110 times as commander-s and 32 times as officer-s. And 40 times as Lead-er-s-ing.

The correct translation for Daniel 12:1 is “leader.” And the correct translation for Isaiah 9:6 is "leading."

The other alternate Hebrew words used for PRINCE are these.
#5592 NAGIYD (PRINCE) 3 times.
#5618 NADIYB (PRINCE-S) 6 times.
#5687 NAZIYR (PRINCE-S) 3 times.
#5817 NASIYK (PRINCE-S) 3 times.

You should take notice that they all began with the letters " N A ".

In Daniel 11:22 the word PRINCE is #5592 NAGIYD.

In our different bibles, interpretations are often given in place of translations.
It's something to think about.


Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is how that verse should read.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, ministering in Peace. ( Or, leading in peace.


If you run that Hebrew word through a Hebrew to English translator is will read “minister.”
 
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daq

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This study is done from the N.I.V Exhaustive Concordance.

The two words of this study are, (PRINCE-S) and LEAD-ER-S-ING).

The Hebrew word (NASIY). Ref # 5954 is used 39 times for the word (PRINCE-S).

And the Hebrew word (SAR). Ref # 8569 is used 51 times for the word (PRINCE-S).

As you can see NASIY and SAR are very different words.

The word SAR is used a total of 421 times; 78 times as officials, 110 times as commander-s and 32 times as officer-s. And 40 times as Lead-er-s-ing.

The correct translation for Daniel 12:1 is “leader.” And the correct translation for Isaiah 9:6 is "leading."

The other alternate Hebrew words used for PRINCE are these.
#5592 NAGIYD (PRINCE) 3 times.
#5618 NADIYB (PRINCE-S) 6 times.
#5687 NAZIYR (PRINCE-S) 3 times.
#5817 NASIYK (PRINCE-S) 3 times.

You should take notice that they all began with the letters " N A ".

In Daniel 11:22 the word PRINCE is #5592 NAGIYD.

In our different bibles, interpretations are often given in place of translations.
It's something to think about.


Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is how that verse should read.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, ministering in Peace. ( Or, leading in peace.


If you run that Hebrew word through a Hebrew to English translator is will read “minister.”

The Strong's Reference Number for "nagiyd" is HSN#5057 and it is found fourty-four times as opposed to the mere three times you have suggested. It is rather the book of Daniel where nagiyd is found only three times with one of those instances being the text of Daniel 11:22 as you have stated. However the other two instances where nagiyd is found in Daniel both occur in the famous and most hotly debated passage concerning the seventy shabu`iym of Daniel 9:24-27, and this should give us pause when it comes to what is written in Daniel 11:22, for that one is Nagiyd-Brit or "Commander-Prince of the Covenant" and this is surely related to what is written in Daniel 9:24-27 where the only other two occurrences of the word nagiyd appear in the text of Daniel. King David is likewise called nagiyd and as well nagiyd is also found in the second highlighted portion of the following passage. :)

Isaiah 55:1-5 KJV
1. Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
2. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
3. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
4. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
5. Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
 
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It makes perfect sense when you think about it.

Yeshua created ALL things - Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2, John 1:3, Ephesians 3:9
....and we know that God created all things - Acts 14:15, Isaiah45:18, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 42:5.

Therefore Yeshua is God

Yeshua made the world - John 1:10.
Therefore Yeshua is God - Isaiah 44:18

Yeshua created all things for HIMSELF - Colossians 1:16, Proverbs 16:4
By Yeshua all things consist - Colossians 1:17
Yeshua upholds all things - Hebrews 1:3
Yeshua is before all things - Colossians 1:17
Yeshua rules heaven and earth - Matthew 28:18.

So therefore Yeshua is God - II Chronicles 29:11
 
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gadar perets

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It makes perfect sense when you think about it.

Yeshua created ALL things - Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2, John 1:3, Ephesians 3:9
....and we know that God created all things - Acts 14:15, Isaiah45:18, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 42:5.

Therefore Yeshua is God

Yeshua made the world - John 1:10.
Therefore Yeshua is God - Isaiah 44:18

Yeshua created all things for HIMSELF - Colossians 1:16, Proverbs 16:4
By Yeshua all things consist - Colossians 1:17
Yeshua upholds all things - Hebrews 1:3
Yeshua is before all things - Colossians 1:17
Yeshua rules heaven and earth - Matthew 28:18.

So therefore Yeshua is God - II Chronicles 29:11

Colossians 1:16-17 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." KJV
The problem lies in the erroneous translation based on the translator's preconceived ideas. Since the translators understood Yeshua to be the eternal "Word" and a member of the "Holy Trinity", they assumed he had a hand in creation. So they translated the Greek word "en" as "by" in verse 16a and 17, instead of "in" which is correct. This can be seen more clearly in Ephesians 2:10;

"For we are his workmanship, created in Messiah Yeshua unto good works, which Yahweh hath before ordained that we should walk in them." This verse teaches that Yahweh created "in" Yeshua, not "by" Yeshua.​

They also translated the Greek word "di" as "by" in verse 16b, instead of "through". All things were created by Yahweh through Yeshua and for Yeshua.

The ASV, as one example, has the correct translation:

"for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
In verse 17, the word "before" is a translation of the Greek word "pro". It can mean "before" concerning place, time, or superiority. As in James 5:12 and 1 Peter 4:8, "pro" should have been translated "above" or "superior to". Yeshua is above all things; he did not exist as a living being before all things.

The same erroneous translation of "di" is found in Hebrews 1:2;

"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he [Yahweh] hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he [Yahweh] made the worlds;"
It should read, "through whom also He made the worlds" as most versions have it. Yahweh created everything through Yeshua, through the Lamb slain before the foundation of the worlds.

When Yahweh created all things, He did it because the lamb slain before the foundation of the world needed a venue or a stage, so to speak, for that to be fulfilled. Therefore, the impetus for creation was the Son. Without the Son in Yahweh's mind there would be no creation. It was done "through" the Son. At the same time, Yahweh created everything "for" His Son. It was part of His plan to give all power and authority to His Son so that he would rule the entire Kingdom forever.

As for Ephesians 3:9;

"And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in [Yahweh], who created all things by Jesus Christ:" KJV.
The oldest Greek manuscripts do not have the words "by Jesus Christ" which would lead one to believe that he was involved in creation. The NASB, ASV, NIV, among many others, correctly omit this phrase. Even if one were to believe that phrase should not be omitted, the word for "by" is "dia" meaning "through".

John 1:10 also uses "di" meaning "through" as most versions have it.

There is only one Creator and only one true God, Almighty YHWH, Yeshua's Father.
 
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Norbert L

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The discussion point in the OP strikes me as referring to how the historical witness in the Bible will eventually be perceived as being something that goes far beyond a reasonable doubt as to it's authenticity of authorship.

It's a future that is the complete antithesis of what is happening today. The recent UNESCO resolution on Jerusalem comes to mind. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37697108
 
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AbbaLove

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Italian Prime Minister calls UNESCO vote
‘unacceptable and wrong’

Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi on Friday(Oct. 21) said the UNESCO resolution last week that failed to acknowledge Judaism’s connections with the Temple Mount and Holy Sites in Jerusalem’s Old City was “incomprehensible, unacceptable and wrong.”

“We cannot continue with these motions aimed at attacking Israel. If there is to break out of European unity because of this, then so be it,” he said. “To maintain that Jerusalem and Judaism do not have a relationship is to argue that the sun gets dark: something incomprehensible, indefensible and wrong."

Ruth Dureghello, president of the Jewish community in Rome, praised Renzi’s comments ...

“Now that the UNESCO vote is final Italy needs a political act that would correct its abstention” at the UN agency, Dureghello added. “We would like to understand how we got to this and what will the Government to do remedy it.” She said she was confident that “Italy will be able to take a clear-cut position to remedy this very shameful abstention.”

 
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gadar perets

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He emptied Himself.
How did He empty Himself?
What was He emptying?
What His humiliation?
What does it mean, "being made in the likeness of men?"
How did He empty Himself? As the KJV says, by making "himself of no reputation".

What was He emptying? He was emptying himself of his glory received as a man.
As a child, Yeshua "waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of Yahweh was upon him" (Luke 2:40). Even at that time Yeshua knew who he was, knew who his Father was (Luke 2:49), and knew what he had to do. By the time of his baptism he was so filled with wisdom, knowledge, Spirit, and power that Paul says he was "in the form (or likeness) of Elohim." Yet, Yeshua did not allow that power and wisdom to corrupt him. Nor did he, for one moment, consider himself Yahweh's equal. He knew his Father was greater than himself (John 10:29; 13:16; 14:28). The RSV and many other versions correctly translate Philippians 2:6 as follows; "Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped."

Yeshua did not empty himself of any pre-existent power or glory. He simply humbled himself and made himself of no reputation even though he was far more knowledgeable and powerful than any of his contemporaries. Instead of glorifying himself and expecting others to serve him, he chose to become a servant. He became like most men, common and unassuming as compared to the politically powerful and famous.

What His humiliation? His humiliation took place AFTER he was found in fashion as a man (Philippians 2:8). In addition to not exalting himself in the eyes of man, he further humbled himself by becoming totally obedient to the laws and will of His Father Yahweh.

What does it mean, "being made in the likeness of men? Paul was writing about the anointed man known as "Messiah Yeshua". When he wrote, "in the likeness of men", it was in comparison to "in the form of God". In other words, even though Yeshua was a mighty man who was so filled with wisdom, knowledge, Spirit, and power that he was like Elohim compared to other men, he still chose to humble himself and be made like a mere man in comparison.
 
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How did He empty Himself? As the KJV says, by making "himself of no reputation".

What was He emptying? He was emptying himself of his glory received as a man.
As a child, Yeshua "waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of Yahweh was upon him" (Luke 2:40). Even at that time Yeshua knew who he was, knew who his Father was (Luke 2:49), and knew what he had to do. By the time of his baptism he was so filled with wisdom, knowledge, Spirit, and power that Paul says he was "in the form (or likeness) of Elohim." Yet, Yeshua did not allow that power and wisdom to corrupt him. Nor did he, for one moment, consider himself Yahweh's equal. He knew his Father was greater than himself (John 10:29; 13:16; 14:28). The RSV and many other versions correctly translate Philippians 2:6 as follows; "Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped."

Yeshua did not empty himself of any pre-existent power or glory. He simply humbled himself and made himself of no reputation even though he was far more knowledgeable and powerful than any of his contemporaries. Instead of glorifying himself and expecting others to serve him, he chose to become a servant. He became like most men, common and unassuming as compared to the politically powerful and famous.

What His humiliation? His humiliation took place AFTER he was found in fashion as a man (Philippians 2:8). In addition to not exalting himself in the eyes of man, he further humbled himself by becoming totally obedient to the laws and will of His Father Yahweh.

What does it mean, "being made in the likeness of men? Paul was writing about the anointed man known as "Messiah Yeshua". When he wrote, "in the likeness of men", it was in comparison to "in the form of God". In other words, even though Yeshua was a mighty man who was so filled with wisdom, knowledge, Spirit, and power that he was like Elohim compared to other men, he still chose to humble himself and be made like a mere man in comparison.
When the soldier fell backwards after hearing "I am".. why?
 
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gadar perets

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When the soldier fell backwards after hearing "I am".. why?
In John 8:12, 18, 24, & 28, Yeshua used "ego eimi" with Pharisees present (vs.13) and yet, no one fell backward and no one stoned him. He, again, used it four times in John 10:7, 9, 11, & 14 with no one falling backward and no stoning. Yeshua said to his disciples, "...that...ye may believe that I am (ego eimi)" in John 13:19 without them batting an eye. It is not made clear why they fell to the ground in John 18, but what followed will make it clear that Yeshua was not claiming to be the "I AM."

After Yeshua's arrest, the Jews took him to Annas first (vs.13). Then they took him to Caiaphas (vs.24) and eventually to Pilate (vss.28,29). A parallel account is found in Matthew 26:57-68. Notice, in particular, verse 59. The same men that had fallen backward to the ground were in attendance when the council sought false witnesses against Yeshua to put him to death. Verse 60 says they couldn't find any. Eventually two came forward. Interestingly, they didn't bear false witness about what Yeshua said in John 8:58, but about his reference to destroying the temple and building it again in three days. Where were all those witnesses from John 8:58?

The point about Matthew 26 is, why would false witnesses be sought if they had true witnesses in attendance? The arresting officers heard Yeshua say "Ego eimi" before the fell backward. They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn't. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn't. Why not? Because it wasn't blasphemy, nor was it a stoneable offense. He was merely identifying himself as Yeshua of Nazareth.
 
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Norbert L

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I They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn't. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn't. Why not? Because it wasn't blasphemy, nor was it a stoneable offense. He was merely identifying himself as Yeshua of Nazareth.
The counter point is that some of them believed it was blasmphemy and actually reported it. The problem is, it's NOT MENTIONED either way in the scriptures. What we do 100% know is some of the arresting officers fell backwards at His statement "I am". I would guess there were some very influential demons receding within the minds of some officers there.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
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If all the verses quoted above is speaking about “The Lord of Hosts” then WHO is the JEW whose skirt men will take a hold of? Who is the one men say they will walk with and who is the one men say “God is with Him”?

Answer: The Lord of Hosts !
I do not agree: For one thing, it is not necessary.

This is plainer, perhaps:

23 So says YAHWEH of Hosts: In those days ten men out of all languages of the nations2 shall take hold, and will seize the wing of the garment of a man, a Jew, saying, Let us go with you, for we have heard that Elohim is with you.

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This is happening already, and will happen more ......
Perfectly, as appointed by YAHWEH Elohim.
 
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