Yeshua, Lord of Hosts

[visionary]

Rev:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords... If you say Yeshua, then I have to ask you, is God King or Lord?

 

[AbbaLove]

When one considers all his posts (beginning with your first thread)it's probable gadar believes the day will come (Revelation 19:11-16) when the Son of YHWH will become LORD of Lords. Until then gadar believes Yeshua is a "lesser Elohim" at His Father's right hand or at least believes Yeshua was a "lesser Elohim" before being resurrected/glorified (John 17:5).

I do not make Yeshua into a god or worse "God" (YHWH). The "names" refer to the ultimate ruler of Israel, HaMaschiach", who would truly be a Wonderful Counselor, a mighty el/warrior, a Father of eternity and a Prince of Peace . I believe that promised Messiah was Yeshua.

Yeshua will indeed "inherit all nations", but so will Father YHWH.

I just don't believe he IS the Father and since the Father is God and there is only one true God, then Yeshua cannot be that one true God. He is an Elohim of lesser degree than his Father.

When the time comes (Rev. 19:11-16) that the Son of YHWH will have "a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself" ... and when He returns every knee will bow and acknowledge Him as LORD of Lords.

 

[gadar perets]

Rev:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords... If you say Yeshua, then I have to ask you, is God King or Lord?

Yeshua is the King of kings and Lord of lords, but he is not YHWH's King. YHWH is also the King of kings, but in YHWH's case Yeshua would be one of the Kings that YHWH is King of. BTW, Artaxerxes and Nebuchadnezzar are both king of kings as well.

 

[gadar perets]

When one considers all his posts (beginning with your first thread)it's probable gadar believes the day will come (Revelation 19:11-16) when the Son of YHWH will become LORD of Lords. Until then gadar believes Yeshua is a "lesser Elohim" at His Father's right hand or at least believes Yeshua was a "lesser Elohim" before being resurrected/glorified (John 17:5).

Once again you teach people what I supposedly believe, but your words are not true. Yeshua will never become "LORD of Lords".

When the time comes (Rev. 19:11-16) that the Son of YHWH will have "a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself" ... and when He returns every knee will bow and acknowledge Him as LORD of Lords.

No one will ever acknowledge Yeshua as "LORD of Lords" because 1) that title is never found in the inspired Scriptures and 2) that title would equate with "YHWH of Lords", another unscriptural title.

 

[AbbaLove]

No one will ever acknowledge Yeshua as "LORD of Lords" because 1) that title is never found in the inspired Scriptures and 2) that title would equate with "YHWH of Lords", another unscriptural title.

Just because you now say you won't reference Yeshua as "LORD of Lords" doesn't mean you couldn't change your mind in the future. As if you've never changed your mind before.

Referencing Yeshua as Lord of heavens hosts ("lessor Elohim") and YHWH of Hosts comes across more as polytheism (two or more according to your definition) than Colossians 2:9.

Mediate on Colossians 2:9 ~ Shabbat Shalom

 

[gadar perets]

Just because you now say you won't reference Yeshua as "LORD of Lords" doesn't mean you couldn't change your mind in the future. As if you've never changed your mind before.

I can easily change my mind to something true. "LORD of Lords" is a man-made, nonsensical title. The correct title is "Lord of Lords".

Referencing Yeshua as Lord of heavens hosts ("lessor Elohim") and YHWH of Hosts comes across as polytheism (two or more) according to your definition.

I do not reference Yeshua as Lord of heavens hosts AND YHWH of Hosts. Yeshua is also never called "Lord of heavens hosts". That is just a title you all gave him that makes sense, but is not Scriptural. Since I believe YHWH is the ONLY TRUE ELOHIM as Yeshua taught us, I am a monotheist. Since you believe the Father and Son on are both God, you are a polytheist.

 

[visionary]

Yeshua is the King of kings and Lord of lords, but he is no YHWH's King. YHWH is also the King of kings, but in YHWH's case Yeshua would be one of the Kings that YHWH is King of. BTW, Artaxerxes and Nebuchadnezzar are both king of kings as well.

King of Kings indicates there is no higher. Lord of Lords indicates there is no higher. Yeshua is King of Kings, Lord of Lords. There is no higher because He is God.

 

[AbbaLove]

King of Kings indicates there is no higher. Lord of Lords indicates there is no higher. Yeshua is King of Kings, Lord of Lords. There is no higher because He is God.

Congratulations! You two are getting closer with only a capital letter standing in the way as gadar moves closer to your correct interpretation of scripture. You say King of Kings, Lord of Lords; while gadar says, Yeshua is the King of kings and Lord of lords. My preference is KING of Kings/kings and LORD of Lords/lords taking note of a page from the CJB (Rev. 19:16) ~ give honor to whom honor is due (1 Timothy 3:16).

There are degrees of "elohim". The greatest is Father YHWH. That is why I use a small "e" for all others. However, since I use a capital "L" and "S" when referring to Yeshua as my Lord and Savior even though Father YHWH is also my *Lord and Savior, I can see I'm being inconsistent in my use of capitals. I will try and correct that.

You and gadar are closer than you realize when he refers to Yeshua as my *Lord and Savior and YHWH is also my *Lord and Savior (Colossians 2:9).

I admire your steadfast consistency of *belief in not wavering as it's very clear to you that the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and they are One God. "For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is." (Colossians 2:9).

John 14:9-11
9 Yeshua replied to him, “Have I been with you so long without your knowing me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Don’t you *believe that I am united with the Father, and the Father united with me? What I am telling you, I am not saying on my own initiative; the Father living in me is doing his own works.
11 Trust me, that I am united with the Father, and the Father united with me. But if you can’t, then trust because of the works themselves.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

also 1 Timothy 3:16 YLT
and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety -- God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!

It just takes some longer than others to comprehend how great is the mystery/secret of godliness/piety that YHWH was manifest in the flesh.

 

[gadar perets]

King of Kings indicates there is no higher. Lord of Lords indicates there is no higher. Yeshua is King of Kings, Lord of Lords. There is no higher because He is God.

Your logic would mean there is no higher king than Nebuchadnezzar, not even YHWH or Yeshua. I guess that means Neb is God as well.

 

[AbbaLove]

King of Kings indicates there is no higher. Lord of Lords indicates there is no higher. Yeshua is King of Kings, Lord of Lords. There is no higher because He is God.

Your logic would mean there is no higher king than Nebuchadnezzar, not even YHWH or Yeshua. I guess that means Neb is God as well.

Whether you know it or not your habit of putting others down with misrepresentation, disparaging remarks, unkind words and sarcasim is not helping your cause. Even another MJ forum member who displays a "Non-Trinitarian Messianic" faith icon finally decided enough was enough when trying to reason with you ~ Isaiah 1:18 "Come now and let us reason together"

All of us in one way or another would agree that you make some valid points. However, many of your replies are abrasive and defeats what you hope to accomplish. It's almost as if you delight in stirring the pot as evident in your above sarcastic reply to Visionary's post (Rev. 19:11-16).

 

[gadar perets]

Whether you know it or not your habit of putting others down with misrepresentation, disparaging remarks, unkind words and sarcasim is not helping your cause. Even another MJ forum member who displays a "Non-Trinitarian Messianic" faith icon finally decided enough was enough when trying to reason with you ~ Isaiah 1:18 "Come now and let us reason together"

All of us in one way or another would agree that you make some valid points. However, many of your replies are abrasive and defeats what you hope to accomplish. It's almost as if you delight in stirring the pot as evident in your above sarcastic reply to Visionary's post (Rev. 19:11-16).

My post was not meant to be sarcastic. It was direct and to the point. In retrospect, I should have said, "Does that mean Neb is God as well"? However, you probably would have found fault with that as well. You choose to view my posts negatively because you cannot refute them. Your only recourse is to find fault with me instead of my doctrine.

As for the other MJ you mentioned, he had enough of me because he refused to admit that "elohim" does not necessarily refer to angels or deity. His choice of discontinuing dialogue had nothing to do with my supposed abrasive replies.

 

[visionary]

My post was not meant to be sarcastic. It was direct and to the point. In retrospect, I should have said, "Does that mean Neb is God as well"? However, you probably would have found fault with that as well. You choose to view my posts negatively because you cannot refute them. Your only recourse is to find fault with me instead of my doctrine.

As for the other MJ you mentioned, he had enough of me because he refused to admit that "elohim" does not necessarily refer to angels or deity. His choice of discontinuing dialogue had nothing to do with my supposed abrasive replies.

Never has scripture ever called Neb "Lord of Lords" or "King of Kings".. so you comment doesn't make sense.

 

[gadar perets]

Never has scripture ever called Neb "Lord of Lords" or "King of Kings".. so you comment doesn't make sense.

Daniel 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
​

Even Nebuchadrezzar and Artaxerxes were "king of kings".

Ezekiel 26:7 For thus saith Adonai YHWH; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Ezra 7:12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.​

 

[visionary]

Daniel 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
​

Even Nebuchadrezzar and Artaxerxes were "king of kings".

Ezekiel 26:7 For thus saith Adonai YHWH; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Ezra 7:12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.​

Thank you... I stand corrected.