YES, the Bible DOES Preach THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE!!

[Tishri1]

Now track with me one last time. If God is outside of time then that means the new earth is already in existence to God and those who are dead and all is finished in God's kingdom. On the flipside there is some research into the possibility that God in fact bound Himself to time when he created time in the Beginning, and that He is tracking us real time but in the end time will be abolished and eternity will kick in... I'll talk to my old roomie, as he had the info on that...

this sounds really interesting, got more?

 

[Tishri1]

I fail to see what the day of the Lord has to do with pre-trib rapture but if you are refering to the Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel, you are way of base! The Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel is a day of fierce judgement! The mention of John to have been "in the Spirit on the LORD's Day is talking a bout the day of worship! John was refering to his worship of God in the Spirit on the Lord's Day!

Imagine your going to the movies and in one theater they are playing a love story and in another they are playing a horror flic...That is a modern day example of the Day of the Lord to a Jew in Jesus day...just remember this movie is seven years long and the special effects could kill ya

 

[Tishri1]

I am a motor mouth today aren't I?

 

[Critias]

Bless you too and thanks, I truely believe that we have much to learn thru these Appointed Times and am soooooooo glad you do too...tell me what is your favorite part of your favorite Feast?

I am most fascinated with the Wedding Ceremony and the Fall Festivals. They have so much relevance to Christ's teachings.

But, I haven't learned enough to make a true evalution of what is my favorite part of any Feast. Learning about the Passover, the bread and the one in the middle being broken, the third cup being the cup of Redemption, etc have really made the Last Supper come alive for me.

 

[Tishri1]

I know what you mean

Every year I learn something(many things) new...this has been the best adventure!

My favorite NEW thing about the Fall Feasts is the exposing of the False Messiah....did you know he is the scape goat in the Yom Kippur Service and not Yeshua as everyone was taught?

I'll go dig up an article cus I don't feel like typing all it out right now...

http://www.hatikva.org/articles/the-coming-of-the-messiah-at-yom-kippur.htm

the High Priest returned to the Nicanor Gate where two identical goats stood near an urn called “Calphi,” in which were two golden lots. On one lot was written “L’Adonai,” which means “To the L-rd,” and on the other “L’Azazel,” which appears to mean “To the Wilderness.” Dr. William Gesenius in his classic lexicon of the Hebrew language links the term “Azazel” to a demon.

“By this name is I suppose to be understood originally some idol to be appeased by sacrifice. I suppose from the names of idols being often applied to demons, this name was used for that of an evil demon inhabiting the wilderness, who had to be appeased by sacrifices by this very ancient and Gentile rite. The name “Azazel” is also used by the Arabs as that of an evil demon.”​

Gesenius Hebrew Lexicon, Pg. 616-617
​

The prophet Isaiah in his prophecies concerning the destruction of Babylon, indicates that the wilderness itself was considered as the habitation of demons.

“It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their folds there. But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there: and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.”​

Isaiah 13.20-22
​

I is no wonder that Yeshua was tempted by Satan in the wilderness. Quite contrary to the popular belief that both of these goats represent the Messiah, one goat to die and the other goat to live having carried off the sins of those that have repented, it is seen that one goat is given to G-d but the other goat represents Satan.

it is quite a study...and explains where all the UNREPENTED SINS go...There is so much more to the Feasts that are "yet to come"....

ps I replied to you at the other place

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I do not see it exactly this way...I see us out of the picture(the wrath picture) for seven years only....then satan and his demons are locked away for the remainder of the 1000 years as we all live on earth (some in glorified bodies , some (those who made it thru alive) in earthly bodies) under Yeshua/Jesus' Kingship and after 1000 years Satan is alowed to tempt for the last time those who will rebel (hard to believe it but he actually finds some) and then the final judgement were ALL the Wholly Wicked are cast into the pit forever...Clouds in Hebraic terms often mean People...

Hello Tishri,
Glad to have your approval -on some things
-You and I have spoken on another board -I'm redeemed.
I do believe there will be interaction between the regenerated glorified believers and those on earth -but only in the same way that the rulers and principalities in the heavenly realm interact with this earth at this time, but not all the regenerated glorified Believers who are part of the first resurrection will have rule, as authority will be based upon their faithful service, according to the parables -as redeemed Believers, for no one gets rewards in the regeneration unless they are part of the redeemed.
Our LORD told Peter that the Apsotles would sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel in the regeneration, but I don't see those thrones on earth. Over earth, but not in earth.
The thing about the heavenly realm where the angelic hosts dwell and where the temple of the LORD is (where His created throne is, that was created within the six days of creation), is that we are seen and known, from there, by the LORD and by the angelic hosts -for the angels rejoice (I call that a party) whenever one sinner repents, and the LORD beholds all the inhabitants 'as grasshoppers', from that realm that we cannot see into because of the fall of our first father, from whom we sprang as the defiled being that he became when he ate that fruit.
When the devil is released after the thousand year reign of Peace, he goes out to deceive the nations, and once again, tries to overthrow the throne of the LORD in Jerusalem -and in heaven!
Isaiah 14, I believe, is dual in prophetic meaning, hasn't happened yet, will happen during the tribulation and may also speak of the time that the devil is released and incites the peoples of the nations against the LORD and His throne in heaven, when that happens, the end comes, and the regeneration of the heavens and the earth.
I do study the Living Oracles, but I don't follow the Jewish fables, which are abundant -and the Scripture warns us not to give heed to Jewish fables: one of those is the wedding feast, which has no basis in Scripture, no matter how it has changed and differed over the millennium in Israel.
The Living Oracles entrusted to Israel, the namesake of the YHWH in flesh, was given all the Oracles of His person and work for the salvation of all in Adam -for whosoever will, and Israel as a nation refused the offer which was theirs by right as keepers of the vineyard when He came -for that, they lost the vineyard, the fig tree was cursed, and another nation was raised up to be keeper to bring forth fruit -sons of God- unto the Master of the vineyard.
When He restores Israel, He will bring them into the New covenant, and the fasts will be feasts, the temple will not have an Ark, no Day of atonement, no veil, shewbread, and etc...it's worth studying to see the differences from the law as given to Moses, which is gone forever for the goal of it is fullfilled, the Day of atonement has once, for all, been done and will never be done again -we look only to the Lamb of God as our complete deliverance and covering for all sin -from our first Father to all who come forth from Him.

The study of the Ark and the Mercy Seat, the 'Oracle', is a never ending study -loads of truth of His Person and work is in that Oracle...
~yeshuasavedme,
~redeemed

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

*I know I know everyone is saying Here goes that Feast Lady again* but listen; the Trib IS for those who havent decided one way or another to believe in God or Jesus...this is their LAST CHANCE turn or burn and sadly even for some it will be turn and burn but at least they have turned and saved their souls....it should be the greatest time of revival ever seen (for obvious reasons) and it is just part of what we all learn as we study the Fall Feasts of God.....

Question? Do you think that the trib is also for those who believe in going through it as far as accepting God and Jesus? Just want clarification here.

 

[richardo]

Pre Trib sounds plausable, but God says,

2 Thess. 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Richard from last days mystery dot info

 

[Tishri1]

Hello Tishri,
Glad to have your approval -on some things
-You and I have spoken on another board -I'm redeemed.
I do believe there will be interaction between the regenerated glorified believers and those on earth -but only in the same way that the rulers and principalities in the heavenly realm interact with this earth at this time, but not all the regenerated glorified Believers who are part of the first resurrection will have rule, as authority will be based upon their faithful service, according to the parables -as redeemed Believers, for no one gets rewards in the regeneration unless they are part of the redeemed.
Our LORD told Peter that the Apsotles would sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel in the regeneration, but I don't see those thrones on earth. Over earth, but not in earth.
The thing about the heavenly realm where the angelic hosts dwell and where the temple of the LORD is (where His created throne is, that was created within the six days of creation), is that we are seen and known, from there, by the LORD and by the angelic hosts -for the angels rejoice (I call that a party) whenever one sinner repents, and the LORD beholds all the inhabitants 'as grasshoppers', from that realm that we cannot see into because of the fall of our first father, from whom we sprang as the defiled being that he became when he ate that fruit.
When the devil is released after the thousand year reign of Peace, he goes out to deceive the nations, and once again, tries to overthrow the throne of the LORD in Jerusalem -and in heaven!
Isaiah 14, I believe, is dual in prophetic meaning, hasn't happened yet, will happen during the tribulation and may also speak of the time that the devil is released and incites the peoples of the nations against the LORD and His throne in heaven, when that happens, the end comes, and the regeneration of the heavens and the earth.
I do study the Living Oracles, but I don't follow the Jewish fables, which are abundant -and the Scripture warns us not to give heed to Jewish fables: one of those is the wedding feast, which has no basis in Scripture, no matter how it has changed and differed over the millennium in Israel.
The Living Oracles entrusted to Israel, the namesake of the YHWH in flesh, was given all the Oracles of His person and work for the salvation of all in Adam -for whosoever will, and Israel as a nation refused the offer which was theirs by right as keepers of the vineyard when He came -for that, they lost the vineyard, the fig tree was cursed, and another nation was raised up to be keeper to bring forth fruit -sons of God- unto the Master of the vineyard.
When He restores Israel, He will bring them into the New covenant, and the fasts will be feasts, the temple will not have an Ark, no Day of atonement, no veil, shewbread, and etc...it's worth studying to see the differences from the law as given to Moses, which is gone forever for the goal of it is fullfilled, the Day of atonement has once, for all, been done and will never be done again -we look only to the Lamb of God as our complete deliverance and covering for all sin -from our first Father to all who come forth from Him.

The study of the Ark and the Mercy Seat, the 'Oracle', is a never ending study -loads of truth of His Person and work is in that Oracle...
~yeshuasavedme,
~redeemed

Hey Redeemed, I remember you

 

[rywilbe]

The rapture theory is a security blanket for scared christians. Would it not prove to yourself, God and everyone around you that you are a strong christian if you are able to triumph over hardships unlike anything you've ever seen before. Of course it would. thats why i believe we as christians will have to deal with the evil to come. If we truly have christ in our hearts we should have nothing to fear and be willing to endure anything that is thrown at us. And why would a christian need a mark to protect him form harm if all christans are already gone.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

In the post that I made that you are referencing, I used the 'same' for the 'like' which is the comparing manner of the word in that passage.

My focus is on the 'that One Day' which is that day of judgment and the melting of the elements that begins as a thief in the night and ends with the melting of the elements and the regeneration of the heavens and the earth -Peter's 'Day' is that entire thousand year period; but for you to see that it is also used as a 'same' in the way I used it:


Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like [[size=-1]hos][/size] manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


NASB - Act 1:11 - They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

RSV - Act 1:11 - and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."

HNV - Act 1:11 - who also said, "You men of the Galil, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Yeshua, who was received up from you into the sky will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky."
Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info

I am no Greek Scholar, but Peter is speaking of the period of time in the passage called the day of judgment and is referring to the thousand year time that is coming when the LORD appears, takes His congregation out, judges the earth, and destroys the kingdom of the beast (all also called one 'hour', and one 'week'), but the beginning of that Day that is coming when the LORD will reign gloriously over the earth that John described as a thousand year day that He was taken 'in' spirit, 'in'.

And His return is on His throne of glory, but in the same way as He was seen to go by His disciples, with their eyes, ascending, every eye will see His return to earth, coming from heaven after the seven years.

Hello Critias, again,

There is this, also, in the Greek wording: ginomai 1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being 2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
John wrote this:
Ginomai en pneuma en kuriakos hemera
“I “came to be” in spirit {as opposed to 'in body'] in [the] LORD’S Day” =Day of the LORD, Day of Christ, Day of God Almighty, Day of God; which he ‘looked’ and ‘saw’ from the rapture to the melting of the elements, a thousand years later ‘in spirit‘ not in his body. -And he was told to write the things He saw to all the seven Churches -warnings to watch, repent, were sprinkled throughout, because He was coming as "a thief in the night", suddenly -without remedy, if it came upon one not prepared to escape and stand before Him.

John experienced the harpazo, 'en spirit', of the Day of the LORD Jesus, from beginning of it, the first seven years of it [that beginning “week” of seven years, called also “one hour“], and the thousand year reign of the LORD Jesus Christ (the Day of the LORD Jesus), when He “came to be revealed“, in His Day, with the judgment, destruction of the kingdom of the beast, and the cleansing of his kingdom and His thousand yr reign over it -and His regeneration of the heavens and the earth.

1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2Cr 1:14 As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also [are] ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1Cr 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, [that ye may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Ti 1:18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:




2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Pre Trib sounds plausable, but God says,

2 Thess. 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Richard from last days mystery dot info

You didn't read the thread -that has been answered from Scripture and also from the early writings, previously.
The theme of Pauls' message to them is that the Day of the LORD is not possibly 'being upon them' and they cannot possibly be 'in it', as was being lyingly reported -as if from the Apostles- because of the impossibility of them being in it at all; because he'd already told them it could not come until they were 'gathered together to Him in the air with the dead in Christ being resurrected first and the living saints being 'laqach" to meet them all in that gathering [at the 'door' 'in the air']-which will happen at the sounding of the two trumpets twice, as Numbers 10:1-7, teaches, Psalm 75:2,3; and Isaiah 26:19-21; when the entire congregation is to be called to the true door of assembly, which 'assembly' 'place' is in the created heaven.
The departure of the Church, from earth, must come before the man of sin can be revealed.
The word was translated 'departure' for 1500 years. The LORD is building His Church since Pentecost, and the gates of hell have never prevailed against it(and shall never); headquarters are in heaven, and the Head sits in heaven, of His Church, and the body is on earth and in heaven.
Organized religion however, which is called 'Christian' changes and evolves, comes and goes, and among those religious bodies which have headquarters on earth, the people of the LORD meet to worship, by twos and threes, and by thousands, since Pentecost, all over the world from every tribe and tongue: He has His people, His body, and is building His Church, since Pentecost, which He will remove by the 'laqach' or 'harpazo', and then the Day of the LORD will be upon the inhabitants of the whole world...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hey Redeemed, I remember you

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The rapture theory is a security blanket for scared christians. Would it not prove to yourself, God and everyone around you that you are a strong christian if you are able to triumph over hardships unlike anything you've ever seen before. Of course it would. thats why i believe we as christians will have to deal with the evil to come. If we truly have christ in our hearts we should have nothing to fear and be willing to endure anything that is thrown at us. And why would a christian need a mark to protect him form harm if all christans are already gone.

If you'll read the thread you'll find your questions dealt with.

Who wants to prove anything? -The LORD removes His congregation totally off earth and comes to punish the inhabitants of the earth -and few men will be saved, very few, but those who are will be redeemed, and holy, and will populate the earth for the millennium -I'll already have my glorified, regenerated, New Man version of my human being body and will not dwell here for the thousand years and won't return to dwell on this earth until it is regenerated after the thousand years is over -but I'll be where the manna grows and angels feed.

 

[Tishri1]

Question? Do you think that the trib is also for those who believe in going through it as far as accepting God and Jesus? Just want clarification here.

I believe the trib will be only for those who have said NO to God(and Jesus) and for those fence sitters who have not decided one way or another(Jews call them intermediates or sinners)....I also believe that 144,000 righteous will be saved (witnessing the rapture) and along with the two witnesses will spread the gospel during this time(protected from harm just like Jesus was) and bringing new converts to "safe places" to wait till it's over....I have heared the saying "Go as you believe" but really wouldn't everyone want to be protected and safe during that time of wrath? I believe ABBA is faithful to me and trust HIM completely with my life and that He doesn't want us to suffer His wrath.....

side note...I believe Halloween is a rehearsal for the Trib

 

[rywilbe]

If you'll read the thread you'll find your questions dealt with.

There are 60 something pages how about a reference.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Imagine your going to the movies and in one theater they are playing a love story and in another they are playing a horror flic...That is a modern day example of the Day of the Lord to a Jew in Jesus day...just remember this movie is seven years long and the special effects could kill ya

The Day of the Lord is at the same time as the second coming. We aren't here for the wrath of God.
Although these feast days can be quite interesting to read, while people are caught up in them expecting one of them to signal Christs return, you are all going to be shocked when you are standing in the tribulation scratching your heads in total shock. If Christians can't understand 2 sets of 4 little words regarding the "Day of the Lord" and a "thief in the night" in the same verses, then I am at a loss. What is amazing to me is, most pre-tribbers believe this thief in the night verse, but totally ignore the Day of the Lord in the exact same verses...AMAZING. People are taking the context of the Day of the Lord and saying that it means something else. That is SO out of context.
1 THESSALONIANS 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT.
2 PETER 3
10 But the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Now it doesn't take a lot of brain function to see that these two verses are referring to the exact same event.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

There are 60 something pages how about a reference.

I'd have to go read the whole thread for you, then -maybe if I get time I'll repost some of them for you -if you don't have time, yourself- but it's like starting it all over again when anyone brings up the same charges on the same threads that have been answered extensively.

 

[Tishri1]

The Day of the Lord is at the same time as the second coming. We aren't here for the wrath of God.
Although these feast days can be quite interesting to read, while people are caught up in them expecting one of them to signal Christs return, you are all going to be shocked when you are standing in the tribulation scratching your heads in total shock. If Christians can't understand 2 sets of 4 little words regarding the "Day of the Lord" and a "thief in the night" in the same verses, then I am at a loss. What is amazing to me is, most pre-tribbers believe this thief in the night verse, but totally ignore the Day of the Lord in the exact same verses...AMAZING. People are taking the context of the Day of the Lord and saying that it means something else. That is SO out of context.
1 THESSALONIANS 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT.
2 PETER 3
10 But the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Now it doesn't take a lot of brain function to see that these two verses are referring to the exact same event.

did you see my longggggggg list of references to the Day of the Lord? that was only half of the Titles, if you do a word search you will see that they are not all doom and gloom, there is clearly two things being expressed to two different groups of people...I will give everyone the rest of the list today....We prebe's are not as nieve as you think...we trust ABBA totaly and know he loves us and has our best at heart like any loving Father would...Would you send your child thru the Trib...?

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

did you see my longggggggg list of references to the Day of the Lord? that was only half of the Titles, if you do a word search you will see that they are not all doom and gloom, there is clearly two things being expressed to two different groups of people...I will give everyone the rest of the list today....We prebe's are not as nieve as you think...we trust ABBA totaly and know he loves us and has our best at heart like any loving Father would...Would you send your child thru the Trib...?

I did a word search. They all refer to the same thing. I'm not going to question God on why He does something, or IS going to do something. Abraham was going to offer up Isaac. Do you have that kind of faith? I don't believe that any of us do. I DO trust God for the tribulation.
As far as the feasts, Jesus commanded that we only observe one...the Passover...DO THIS in rememberance of me. We aren't Jewish, but Gentile believers. We aren't subject to the feast days and old laws. Are you?