YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[Stryder06]

"Each one must give as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. " 2 Corinthians 9:7

This isn't tithing.

You're right. This has nothing to do with tithing. Giving an offering comes from the heart. Tithe however is 10% flat out.

 

[Stryder06]

Well according to Galatians 3:10....10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

The Book of the Law aka Torah.

Simple questions really require simple answers. First you need to stop bundling the 10 commandments with the sacrifical ordinances. Study them both and you will clearly see that one set of laws was meant to pass while the other set was not. This is the point we're trying to get across.

The sabbath commandment is just like the other nine commandments. If you ditch one, you have to toss them all. Man has no right or authority to amend God's law.

Christ fulfilled the need for sacrifices, He did not however take away the need for us to be loyal to one God, or be faithful to our spouse, or to honor our parents. Those laws stand as a reflection of the character of God. They reveal sin, without them there is no sin.

Look it up, you'll see that there is no scripture to support worship on any other day. The sabbath that Christ instituted in the Garden was not a shadow pointing to anything. It was the day that God set aside for us to remember Him as creator.

Just because the word "sabbath" is used in more than one location does not mean that they are all the same. There is a distinction.

Look deeper into what Paul was talking about. The law that brought a curse was not the 10 commandments, but the law of Moses. It's written in that book that those who do not keep the words of that book would be cursed. The 10 commandments do not bring a curse.

(this was a general post responding to the two or three responses that you made to me, just trying to sum it all up.)

 

[godschild583]

Simple questions really require simple answers. First you need to stop bundling the 10 commandments with the sacrifical ordinances. Study them both and you will clearly see that one set of laws was meant to pass while the other set was not. This is the point we're trying to get across.

The sabbath commandment is just like the other nine commandments. If you ditch one, you have to toss them all. Man has no right or authority to amend God's law.

Christ fulfilled the need for sacrifices, He did not however take away the need for us to be loyal to one God, or be faithful to our spouse, or to honor our parents. Those laws stand as a reflection of the character of God. They reveal sin, without them there is no sin.

Look it up, you'll see that there is no scripture to support worship on any other day. The sabbath that Christ instituted in the Garden was not a shadow pointing to anything. It was the day that God set aside for us to remember Him as creator.

Just because the word "sabbath" is used in more than one location does not mean that they are all the same. There is a distinction.

Look deeper into what Paul was talking about. The law that brought a curse was not the 10 commandments, but the law of Moses. It's written in that book that those who do not keep the words of that book would be cursed. The 10 commandments do not bring a curse.

(this was a general post responding to the two or three responses that you made to me, just trying to sum it all up.)

I think you are blinded by your own theology. The Law of Moses and Law of God are synonymous. God's law contained sacrificial ordinaces as I provided proof in the verse. Everything God commanded was in the Law of Moses.

3 and observe what the LORD your God requires: Walk in his ways, and keep his decrees and commands, his laws and requirements, as written in the Law of Moses 1 Kings 2:3

"He also appointed the king's portion of his goods for the burnt offerings, namely, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the Sabbaths and for the new moons and for the fixed festivals, as it is written in the law of the Lord." 2 Choronicles 31:3

 

[MamaZ]

This is why it is said of Paul if you are going to follow after the law you have to follow after the full law for if you break even one of the least of the laws you have broken them all...

 

[BrightCandle]

This is why it is said of Paul if you are going to follow after the law you have to follow after the full law for if you break even one of the least of the laws you have broken them all...

Because there is a possibility that a Christian might break one law of Ten Commandments does not give justification for giving up and not even trying. Paul was trying to get the point across that the Law of God is broad and deep. But, the good news is that when we are filled with the Holy Spirit it will change us from being law breakers (sinners), to being law keepers (righteous). Remember, Satan is the one who first said that you can break God's law and it won't hurt you, remember the serpent and Eve.

 

[MamaZ]

Because there is a possibility that a Christian might break one law of Ten Commandments does not give justification for giving up and not even trying.

We are dead to the law.. Why would we want to try to keep trying to keep something that even Patriarchs could not keep? Why would we play with something we are dead to?



Paul was trying to get the point across that the Law of God is broad and deep. But, the good news is that when we are filled with the Holy Spirit it will change us from being law breakers (sinners), to being law keepers (righteous). Remember, Satan is the one who first said that you can break God's law and it won't hurt you, remember the serpent and Eve.

Actually when one is born again does not make us law keepers but the very adopted sons and daughters of God. This is why we are predestined to become the image of Christ.. It is God at work in us to walk in obedience to faith.. Not to law.

 

[visionary]

Mat 8:11 NKJV - And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

We must remember that this is Yeshua talking.... If what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did, how they lived, how they followed where held up as examples by Yeshua of people who made it into the kingdom - why shouldn't I follow their example? Why shouldn't I study the scriptures that speak of them to learn what the book has to say about a pattern of life? These people are the ones that our Lord and Savior pointed out as being saved and sitting in the kingdom of heaven. They are our examples... Just as Yeshua is...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mat 8:11 NKJV - And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

We must remember that this is Yeshua talking.... If what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did, how they lived, how they followed where held up as examples by Yeshua of people who made it into the kingdom - why shouldn't I follow their example? Why shouldn't I study the scriptures that speak of them to learn what the book has to say about a pattern of life? These people are the ones that our Lord and Savior pointed out as being saved and sitting in the kingdom of heaven. They are our examples... Just as Yeshua is...

One of my favorite quotes from the NT/NC [I have it in my siggy ehehe].

I doubt it is talking about having to come to literal "jerusalem or rome" to feast with them though.
Interesting greek word used. This form of it is also used in relation to that "great city/harlot" in Revelation

Matthew 8:11 I am saying yet to ye, that many from east/risings and west shall be arriving/hxousin <2240> (5692) and shall be being reclined with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the Kingdom of the heavens,

Reve 18:8 because of this in one day shall be arriving/hxousin <2240> (5692) the blows of Her, death and mourning and famine, and in fire She shall be being burned-down that strong *Lord the God, the One-judging Her.

2240. heko hay'-ko a primary verb; to arrive, i.e. be present (literally or figuratively):--come.

 

[MamaZ]

Mat 8:11 NKJV - And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

We must remember that this is Yeshua talking.... If what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did, how they lived, how they followed where held up as examples by Yeshua of people who made it into the kingdom - why shouldn't I follow their example? Why shouldn't I study the scriptures that speak of them to learn what the book has to say about a pattern of life? These people are the ones that our Lord and Savior pointed out as being saved and sitting in the kingdom of heaven. They are our examples... Just as Yeshua is...

And just as anyone else they were saved by Grace and not righteous needs.. For men are saved by Grace and Abraham is the Father of promise.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And just as anyone else they were saved by Grace and not righteous needs.. For men are saved by Grace and Abraham is the Father of promise.

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yeselves 'a father we are having, the Abraham'.
For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God out of the stones, these, to raise-up children to the Abraham". [Luke 16:24-26]

Matthew 3:9 kai mh doxhte legein en eautoiV patera ecomen ton abraam legw gar umin oti dunatai o qeoV ek twn liqwn toutwn egeirai tekna tw abraam

 

[Stryder06]

This is why it is said of Paul if you are going to follow after the law you have to follow after the full law for if you break even one of the least of the laws you have broken them all...

Exactly. We have all broken the law and are thus all guilty and worthy of receiving it's punishment. But the grace of God covers those who accept this gift, thus nullifying the punishment that we deserve and instead replacing it with the grace of God.

 

[visionary]

Exactly. We have all broken the law and are thus all guilty and worthy of receiving it's punishment. But the grace of God covers those who accept this gift, thus nullifying the punishment that we deserve and instead replacing it with the grace of God.

That is correct... that this why it says..

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall....not have to worry about the law anymore.

or

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the Law of God.

or

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away the Ten COmmandments.

But that is not what scripture says. In fact, you will not find any scripture to support your position... what you have been doing is finding those that speak of the other laws.. law of Moses... and applying them to the Ten Commandments... which God wrote on stone and said they are they ones that He will be writting on the heart.

 

[WailingWall]

"Each one must give as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. " 2 Corinthians 9:7
This isn't tithing.

Luke 11:42
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

This is

 

[FineLinen25]

YES

 

[WailingWall]

but they are a part of the old covenant along with the 10. at least two of those were done on the sabbath. do you have to revert back to the old testament to find out how to keep the sabbath properly?

You can. Or you can just look in the new testament

Luke 6:9
Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

 

[BrightCandle]

Actually when one is born again does not make us law keepers but the very adopted sons and daughters of God. This is why we are predestined to become the image of Christ.. It is God at work in us to walk in obedience to faith.. Not to law.

Let me ask you this question: You have five children correct? Do you have laws that are made known to your children as to what is right and wrong in you household? Well, God has laws too!! They are called the Ten Commandments, why would Jesus write those laws in stone with his own finger, if we were to ignore them in 2009? That doesn't make sense. Would you like your children to ignore you when you point out something wrong that they have done? I don't think so! Well, that is just what you are doing when you try to say that God's laws are not longer applicable to us after we accept Christ as our Saviour. That is just the beginning of the sanctification process, we don't become perfect and just like Jesus in one moment, it is a life time work that he does in us to make us like Him. We work together with Him. What you preaching is called "cheap grace" which produces diluted Christianity which is so common nowadays in the USA.

 

[WailingWall]

The 10 commandments were given to Isreal but we are under a new covenant. They have been fulfilled in accordance to who they were given to and the purpose they served. The new law that is written on our hearts.

Hebrews 8:10-13
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

I keep hearing the sabbath was given to the house of Israel, therefore the gentiles need not keep it. Who was the covenant of Hebrews 8 given to?

For all shall know me. You must live in a real nice town should you believe that everyone from the least to the greatest know the Lord.

Hebrews was written after the crucified Christ. Does this scripture say the 1st is now done away with? No...it says its a gettin old (like me) and is getting ready to vanish.

...POOF....

 

[BrightCandle]

That is correct... that this why it says..

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall....not have to worry about the law anymore.

or

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the Law of God.

or

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away the Ten COmmandments.

But that is not what scripture says. In fact, you will not find any scripture to support your position... what you have been doing is finding those that speak of the other laws.. law of Moses... and applying them to the Ten Commandments... which God wrote on stone and said they are they ones that He will be writting on the heart.

It is interesting to note, that 99% of the texts quoted by those who do not think that they need to keep the 10 Commandments quote selected texts from Paul's writings. Why is that? Because Paul wrote so much dealing with issues related to Jewish vs. Gentile Christians in the 1st century church---that was the issue he was speaking about, NOT THE VALIDITY OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS INCLUDING THE SABBATH!! Paul was dealing with ceremonial issues between the mixed members that the church of the 1st century. Paul was not promoting lawlessness.

 

[heymikey80]

I keep hearing the sabbath was given to the house of Israel, therefore the gentiles need not keep it.

I agree to an extent. I think that kind of response a mistaken contrary. Moral law continues to obligate all.

The question for me is what's moral about the Fourth Commandment. It's not holding one day above others, but worship and declining from our own egotistical works.

The Mosaic Law went further: "In it do no work". Yet simply ceasing work wasn't God's moral desire, for He condemned people who simply ceased from work, as breaking the Sabbath. The New Testament points to its spiritual purpose: "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God&#8217;s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his." That's why the author stated the sabbath was redesignated: because its practical observation changed.

There's also periodic gathering for encouragement and worship, both directed at us by the New Testament and modeled by assemblies on Sabbath.

If you think you can engage in this properly without being regulated by a rule for the community, well, I think that ends in futility. Human corruption being what it is, we often have to be reminded by others. It's part of what the community of faith is for: encouragement isn't simply "being nice". If that gathering happens on Sunday, it's clearly been the habit of Christian churches since the Apostles. Scripture alludes only to the first day of the week as being characteristic of Christian assembly. Other first century documents from Christians also point out Sunday as the day of worship. But if that gathering happens on Saturday or even Friday, it's not a serious breach.

Who was the covenant of Hebrews 8 given to?

For all shall know me. You must live in a real nice town should you believe that everyone from the least to the greatest know the Lord.

Hebrews was written after the crucified Christ. Does this scripture say the 1st is now done away with? No...it says its a gettin old (like me) and is getting ready to vanish.

...POOF....

With that I'd agree. But I'd also point out, Moses is not the law of the land. The Apostle was talking in a context of Judea being governed by this law. The "ready to vanish" probably had a compelling sense of reality for Christians as Rome marched on Judea in the 60's.

The way I see it, we shouldn't cling onto pieces of the law that are clearly going away (cf. Gal 4:9). We're to prepare for the transition. The Mosaic Law is a goldmine of spiritual reality and moral instruction, something I feel we really need to understand as established (Rom 3:31) for Christians to recognize God's purposes and Spirit in what's right and wrong. But the Mosaic Law is not a "law of the land" type of law for the other nations. It's something to be understood for morality -- but not for legality -- among the Gentiles.

To me that's why the nations don't circumcise; and it's also why the nations aren't required to observe worship and enforced rest on Saturday.

 

[WailingWall]

The way I see it, we shouldn't cling onto pieces of the law that are clearly going away (cf. Gal 4:9). We're to prepare for the transition.

Theres a lot of stuff in your post that i could have brought to your attention by posting a few scriptures. Ill just tend to Gal.4:9.

GAL.4 [8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Heymikey80, alls ya gotta do is look at verse 10 to see what is bringing them into bondage. Ive heard it said that Gods very own 10 commandments that He wrote on stone with His own finger is the bondage being spoken of. Can you imagine anyone making that claim. Wouldnt wanna be them when they stand in front of Jesus. Anyways this scripture points out that the bondage is for those who observe times.

DEUT.18 [9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Maybe speakin of those who use horoscopes?

2 CHR.33 [3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Well.. has nothing to do with the doing away of Gods sabbath day as the "many" have claimed. Seems to have something to do with the occult.

LEV.19 [26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, NOR OBSERVE TIMES.[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.[28] Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.[29] Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.[30] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

I guess this scripture says it all. You shall not observe times BUT you will keep my sabbaths.