YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[Tkjjc]

Tkjcc the law commanding us to assist our enemy reveals to us a piece of true Godliness. In other words it's Gods character that would assist an enemy.

Exodus 23:5If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying under its burden, and you would refrain from helping it, you shall surely help him with it.

Marc

Which is why Jesus said and I am quoting:

"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
"But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil {men.}

 

[Tkjjc]

IAA I asked is the Torah being written on our hearts by Him?

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people

When God through Jerimiah said this are you saying He was referring to a different 'law'?

Marc

Yep, it is called to be personal if it is written on your heart. If it was the same for everyone, He could have left it in a book, or on stone. Why don't you see this?


Once you understand this, this verse here makes perfect sense:

- 2Th 2:6 -
And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains {will do so} until he is taken out of the way.
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

Have you figured this out yet? Come on, how can lawlessness be a mystery? You say it isn't. You say it is defined in Torah. But how could this be a mystery?

But, unless I know what convicts my own heart, and it is revealed and taken away(OVERCOME), then of course it would be a mystery. And mine would be different than yours, of course. Why is the mysteries sometimes so hard to understand? Who is the lawless one? How is he revealed? How is he slayed?
By the Holy Spirit of course, and you being the lawless one has overcome the evil one, your own carnal flesh and desires!!

This is Born Again people! By the Spirit of the Living God!! Not salvation as that is afforded to all, but literally born of the Spirit!

People keep on looking at these verses seeing a boogie man in the future, when if they would just look in the mirror, they would SEE what the verse is talking about and to whom.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Which is nomos,,and nomos isn't Torah..

1) anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

That would like saying anything that a government or country, or any ruling party, would be classified as Torah,,,Not the case.

This is why the WORD is different, and specialized in the context it is used. Come on, semantics now Marc....

Tkjcc,

CONTEXT is key. You want to say that iniquity is not Torahlessness? How is iniquity (sin) defined even in the "New Testament?" Is it the breaking of Torah? 1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The word for "iniquity" in verse 23 is "lawlessness," from the Greek anomia. Yeshua clearly states that those who practice lawlessness will not enter into His kingdom. What "law" are these people violating with their "lawlessness?" As it has been clearly shown, the context of Matthew 5:17 through 7:29 is that of "religious law" the Torah.

In verse 26, when Yeshua, says, "these sayings of mine," He is in no way stating that "His commandments" now replace those of the Father's unless you want to believe so. Such a statement would immediately disqualify Him as being the Messiah which yet you say that His sayings replace the Fathers but fail to even admit by doing so qualifies Him as a false Messiah. Yeshua's sayings are those of the Father they are One. If you have heard Him you have heard the Father, and vice-versa. He makes this clear throughout all four gospel accounts.

Now how can you explain what Yeshua said and taught is different than the Fathers and yet still proclaim Him as the Messiah. That's a contradiction.



Marc

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Once you understand this, this verse here makes perfect sense:

- 2Th 2:6 -
And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains {will do so} until he is taken out of the way.
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

Have you figured this out yet? Come on, how can lawlessness be a mystery? You say it isn't. You say it is defined in Torah. But how could this be a mystery?

What does it mean to practice lawlessness?

Marc

 

[Tkjjc]

Tkjcc,

CONTEXT is key. You want to say that iniquity is not Torahlessness? How is iniquity (sin) defined even in the "New Testament?" Is it the breaking of Torah? 1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The word for "iniquity" in verse 23 is "lawlessness," from the Greek anomia. Yeshua clearly states that those who practice lawlessness will not enter into His kingdom. What "law" are these people violating with their "lawlessness?" As it has been clearly shown, the context of Matthew 5:17 through 7:29 is that of "religious law" the Torah.

In verse 26, when Yeshua, says, "these sayings of mine," He is in no way stating that "His commandments" now replace those of the Father's unless you want to believe so. Such a statement would immediately disqualify Him as being the Messiah which yet you say that His sayings replace the Fathers but fail to even admit by doing so disqualifies Him as a false Messiah. Yeshua's sayings are those of the Father they are One. If you have heard Him you have heard the Father, and vice-versa. He makes this clear throughout all four gospel accounts.

Now how can you explain what Yeshua said and taught is different than the Fathers and yet still proclaim Him as the Messiah. That's a contradiction.



Marc

CONTEXT is key. You want to say that iniquity is not Torahlessness? How is iniquity (sin) defined even in the "New Testament?" Is it the breaking of Torah? 1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Again you are not hearing. That word is the same anomia. You know what Marc. Let the Spirit speak to you. I have tried, but I suppose to no avail. You evidently don't read any of the posts I post, and instead fixate on that which you "might" have a doctrinal dispute.

Oh well, may you be blessed anyway, and may the Spirit of the Lord reveal to you of His Truth. We are called by the Father, and only by the calling which comes from Him. No man is your teacher, as you must first seek the Truth, before He can set you free. Then He will teach you according to your growth. No Rabbi, Pastor, Bishop, Priest, or any man on the planet, can compare.

 

[Tkjjc]

What does it mean to practice lawlessness?
Marc

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Well, it is a mystery Marc. Why don't you figure the mystery out, with God's help. But a tell tell sign would be that those verses Jesus was quoted saying, go hand in hand with those I provided by Paul, who knew the mysteries.

- 2Th 2:6 -
And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains {will do so} until he is taken out of the way.
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Well, it is a mystery Marc. Why don't you figure the mystery out, with God's help.

I didn't ask about the mystery, I asked what does it mean to practice lawlessness/iniquity?

Marc

 

[Tkjjc]

I didn't ask about the mystery, I asked what does it mean to practice lawlessness/iniquity?

Marc

It means to do anything willingly that would convict your heart contrary to Jesus Christ and His Word. ANTICHRIST!

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Again you are not hearing. That word is the same anomia. You know what Marc. Let the Spirit speak to you. I have tried, but I suppose to no avail. You evidently don't read any of the posts I post, and instead fixate on that which you "might" have a doctrinal dispute.

Oh well, may you be blessed anyway, and may the Spirit of the Lord reveal to you of His Truth. We are called by the Father, and only by the calling which comes from Him. No man is your teacher, as you must first seek the Truth, before He can set you free. Then He will teach you according to your growth. No Rabbi, Pastor, Bishop, Priest, or any man on the planet, can compare.

Tkjcc what law is Yeshua referring to in

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill

God's law? The law of sin and death?

Are you saying that when Yeshua is not referring to God's law(The Torah) and it's some kind of other law?

Marc

 

[PROPHECYKID]

It means to do anything willingly that would convict your heart contrary to Jesus Christ and His Word. ANTICHRIST!

You are trying to sugar coat. This is what the bible says lawlessness in in 1 John 3:4.

(BBE) Everyone who is a sinner goes against the law, for sin is going against the law.

(ESV) Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

(Geneva) Whosoeuer committeth sinne, transgresseth also the Law: for sinne is the transgression of the Lawe.

(ISV) Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience.

(KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

(LITV) Everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

(MKJV) Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness.

(RV) Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness.

SIn = Transgression of the law = lawlessness

 

[Tkjjc]

You are trying to sugar coat. This is what the bible says lawlessness in in 1 John 3:4.

(BBE) Everyone who is a sinner goes against the law, for sin is going against the law.

(ESV) Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

(Geneva) Whosoeuer committeth sinne, transgresseth also the Law: for sinne is the transgression of the Lawe.

(ISV) Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience.

(KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

(LITV) Everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

(MKJV) Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness.

(RV) Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness.

SIn = Transgression of the law = lawlessness

An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

What law do you obey there young one?

 

[Tkjjc]

Tkjcc what law is Yeshua referring to in

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill

God's law? The law of sin and death?

Are you saying that when Yeshua is not referring to God's law(The Torah) and it's some kind of other law?

Marc

No, He is referring to the Law of Moses. We had this discussion, about 20 pages ago.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

What law do you obey there young one?

God's 10 commandments are still binding upon Christians today however The Law of Moses was a shadow of Christ and is therefore nailed to the cross.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

No, He is referring to the Law of Moses. We had this discussion, about 20 pages ago.

Actually the phrase "Law and the Prophets", actually are the books written by Moses and the books written by the prophets. When Jesus said he came to fulfill the law it can be looked at in different ways. The law and the prophets prophesied of the coming of Jesus. Isaiah and many more prophesied of his coming. For instance:

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

When a prophecy is fulfilled we should have even more faith in the words of the prophets not neglect them. Jesus fulfilled the prophecies about him.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Are you insulting me or are you complimenting me or neither????

 

[Tkjjc]

Are you insulting me or are you complimenting me or neither????

Neither, I was pointing you to start with Romans 2. That was verse 20, and this is talking about Law.

 

[Tkjjc]

Actually the phrase "Law and the Prophets", actually are the books written by Moses and the books written by the prophets. When Jesus said he came to fulfill the law it can be looked at in different ways. The law and the prophets prophesied of the coming of Jesus. Isaiah and many more prophesied of his coming. For instance:

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

When a prophecy is fulfilled we should have even more faith in the words of the prophets not neglect them. Jesus fulfilled the prophecies about him.

Jesus fulfilled them ALL. It was finished. This is like preaching to the choir.

 

[Tkjjc]

God's 10 commandments are still binding upon Christians today however The Law of Moses was a shadow of Christ and is therefore nailed to the cross.

Ok, let them bind you then. I am free to serve Him completely.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

No, He is referring to the Law of Moses. We had this discussion, about 20 pages ago.

Is it the law of Moses or the Law of God through Moses? I mean did Moses write it without revelation from God?

What about Yeshua? Is what He said and taught not from the Father?

Tkjcc from what you believe you have condemned our Lord and Savior as a false prophet according to God's own words.

Marc

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

"...ye that work iniquity" ​

They were doing many miracles, but they were also working iniquity. Let's examine the Greek word that is translated "iniquity" in this verse since it seems to be the deciding factor in their salvation. It is from the Greek word "anomia". We will find in the Thayer's Greek lexicon a definition for this word:

BDB/Thayers # 458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from 459; TDNT - 4:1085,646; n f AV - iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law + 4060 1, transgression of the law 1; 15 1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it 1b) because of violating it 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness.
​

The Strong's Lexicon defines this word with:

"458. illegality (i.e. violation of the law)"
​

It is the same word that is translated "transgression of the law" in 1John 3:4 :

1John 3:4 - Whoever commits sin trangresses also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.
​

Also, it is the same word translated "iniquity" in 2Thess 2:7 .

2Thessalonians 2:7 - For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
​

Are you beginning to see the solution to the mystery? It becomes evident that these false prophets have deceived "many" into doing what they are doing and that is transgressing Yahweh's Torah/law . It was also predicted in 2Thess 2:9 that there would be miracles associated with this mystery:

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
​

It is evident that these false prophets are not bearing the fruit we should be expecting. They are working "illegality, violation of the law" rather than righteousness because they believe and teach that we need not be obedient to Yahweh's Torah/Law. And of course, their followers follow them.

Be warned, it is the same OLD deception that Adam and Eve fell into ("Hath Yahweh said?"). It is Satan that will try to get us to disobey Yahweh's commands. Why would Yahweh ever want you disobey His commandments?


Marc