YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[IamAdopted]

Does the law accuse us before God?

 

[Tkjjc]

Tkjjc,

Where do we find this New Covenant? In the Torah. This is what Paul is telling us in 2 Cor. That both the NC and the OC are both fully expressed in the same Torah. The difference between the two is the person doing the reading. Under one covenant the reader is veiled, the meaning is concealed, the truth is hidden. Under the other covenant the reader is unveiled, the meaning is revealed, the recipient is being transformed into the glory of Messiah.

The difference between the OC and the NC is not the Torah because both covenants employ it. Gods’ eternal Torah is unchanging. The difference between the two covenants is us. Transformed, renewed, recreated, remade, new creatures in Messiah..Torah being written on our hearts.

For if that first protose had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a deutero.

What was wrong with the first? God found fault with His people. Because finding fault with them

He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

What was wrong with the first covenant? Was it the Torah that was faulty? Or was it the people who broke the Torah who were faulty?

The problem with the first is that God found fault with people. The weakness of the first covenant is that it’s a covenant made with human beings. Fallen creatures. Even as we try to give it our very best shot, we can’t do it. Even as we try our hardest we still have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God. God keeps His end of the bargain in the protose covenant. But we don’t keep ours. So what should God do, lower the bar and remove the Torah and say “ ok it doesn’t matter , you know what I changed my mind, I was just bluffing about all that Torah stuff. Forget all that Torah stuff it didn’t matter.” Is that what you think of God?

However He can change us! We are the created. If we have been created we can be re-created. He’s the Creator.

Marc

Use this for an example.

I live in northern Alaska. No missionary from the Christian faith, nor Jewish faith, has ever talked to me. God says He has written on MY heart, His law. What law is He referring to? Those of the Judaic religion? Which is what it is, a religion. Those of the Promise to Abraham? Those of the risen Christ? What would be on my heart? Think I would get a calling to convert to something? Paul says in Romans, I would be a law unto myself, and be judged accordingly.

This would be a law of Love, my brother. This is what heathens and barbarians lacked, but not anymore. This is an unloosing of the heart, and it is transformed into a loving fleshly heart, and not stone. Are there still bad people doing bad things? Of course there are! Do you think a little hardening has happened, for the betterment of a person, or people? I believe so. God works out His plan according to His will, whatever and however that may be.
So if an Alaskan or any person, can Love and be Loved, why must we complicate this Love even further, by restricting it to a Book, or a set of rules? Love in and through Christ abounds freely, and lives. The letter kills because it enslaves, and puts those under it in bondage. Philippians 3 explains this well. Here was a man of the religion, as hard core as can be, but it was a loss to him concerning Jesus. As all those whom Jesus talked with, of the leaders of those days, who just didn't get it either.

The Torah pointed to Jesus. Through the lineage, through the law, through the prophets. It can never be abolished, as that would be abolishing Jesus, and what He did, said, and died for. Understand this? But as radical as they were, they, not even 1, could not "keep" that themselves. And by condemning Jesus to death, they themselves were freed.

"Father forgive them, they know not what they do!"

​

But it could have went on from there. He could have told them that it was going to happen whether they wanted it to or not. He could have told them, that no matter what, their hearts would be hardened like that of the Pharaoh, so that by the will of the Father, and the restoration of the fall, would bring us back into Grace, with God above. So the flaming sword would be brought down, and the Living Word, which is sharper than any sword, would grant us entrance into paradise.

He could have, right? Oh, but He did. They just weren't listening.

So what should God do, lower the bar and remove the Torah and say “ ok it doesn’t matter , you know what I changed my mind, I was just bluffing about all that Torah stuff. Forget all that Torah stuff it didn’t matter.” Is that what you think of God?

Actually He didn't "lower" the bar, He raised it to an even higher level. Can't you see this? Everything changed when Jesus died. Everything everyone thought they knew, and how they knew it, would be taken from them, and transformed unto Him. The lineages would be burned. The city would be burned and desolated. They would be scattered, throughout the earth. They would be thrown down, trodden under, and the whole world of this faith turned upside down.

All because of one Man. A Perfect Man. No more sacrifice. No more temple. No more religion. Back to the BASICS. Back to Eden. Restored unto the Kingdom, which He reigns King. How it was meant to be before the whole thing started. I am restored, and have been given the Way, which have been hidden for centuries. Now maybe you understand a little more, but than again, maybe not.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Use this for an example.

I live in northern Alaska. No missionary from the Christian faith, nor Jewish faith, has ever talked to me. God says He has written on MY heart, His law. What law is He referring to? Those of the Judaic religion? Which is what it is, a religion. Those of the Promise to Abraham? Those of the risen Christ? What would be on my heart? Think I would get a calling to convert to something? Paul says in Romans, I would be a law unto myself, and be judged accordingly.

This would be a law of Love, my brother. This is what heathens and barbarians lacked, but not anymore. This is an unloosing of the heart, and it is transformed into a loving fleshly heart, and not stone. Are there still bad people doing bad things? Of course there are! Do you think a little hardening has happened, for the betterment of a person, or people? I believe so. God works out His plan according to His will, whatever and however that may be.
So if an Alaskan or any person, can Love and be Loved, why must we complicate this Love even further, by restricting it to a Book, or a set of rules? Love in and through Christ abounds freely, and lives. The letter kills because it enslaves, and puts those under it in bondage. Philippians 3 explains this well. Here was a man of the religion, as hard core as can be, but it was a loss to him concerning Jesus. As all those whom Jesus talked with, of the leaders of those days, who just didn't get it either.

The Torah pointed to Jesus. Through the lineage, through the law, through the prophets. It can never be abolished, as that would be abolishing Jesus, and what He did, said, and died for. Understand this? But as radical as they were, they, not even 1, could not "keep" that themselves. And by condemning Jesus to death, they themselves were freed.

"Father forgive them, they know not what they do!"

​

But it could have went on from there. He could have told them that it was going to happen whether they wanted it to or not. He could have told them, that no matter what, their hearts would be hardened like that of the Pharaoh, so that by the will of the Father, and the restoration of the fall, would bring us back into Grace, with God above. So the flaming sword would be brought down, and the Living Word, which is sharper than any sword, would grant us entrance into paradise.

He could have, right? Oh, but He did. They just weren't listening.



Actually He didn't "lower" the bar, He raised it to an even higher level. Can't you see this? Everything changed when Jesus died. Everything everyone thought they knew, and how they knew it, would be taken from them, and transformed unto Him. The lineages would be burned. The city would be burned and desolated. They would be scattered, throughout the earth. They would be thrown down, trodden under, and the whole world of this faith turned upside down.

All because of one Man. A Perfect Man. No more sacrifice. No more temple. No more religion. Back to the BASICS. Back to Eden. Restored unto the Kingdom, which He reigns King. How it was meant to be before the whole thing started. I am restored, and have been given the Way, which have been hidden for centuries. Now maybe you understand a little more, but than again, maybe not.

But as radical as they were, they, not even 1, could not "keep" that themselves. And by condemning Jesus to death, they themselves were freed.

This is why we need Messiah!

Marc

 

[Tkjjc]

But as radical as they were, they, not even 1, could not "keep" that themselves. And by condemning Jesus to death, they themselves were freed.

This is why we need Messiah!

Marc

This is how I HAVE Messiah!
John 4:25-26

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Use this for an example.

I live in northern Alaska. No missionary from the Christian faith, nor Jewish faith, has ever talked to me. God says He has written on MY heart, His law. What law is He referring to? Those of the Judaic religion? Which is what it is, a religion. Those of the Promise to Abraham? Those of the risen Christ? What would be on my heart? Think I would get a calling to convert to something? Paul says in Romans, I would be a law unto myself, and be judged accordingly.

This would be a law of Love, my brother. This is what heathens and barbarians lacked, but not anymore. This is an unloosing of the heart, and it is transformed into a loving fleshly heart, and not stone. Are there still bad people doing bad things? Of course there are! Do you think a little hardening has happened, for the betterment of a person, or people? I believe so. God works out His plan according to His will, whatever and however that may be.
So if an Alaskan or any person, can Love and be Loved, why must we complicate this Love even further, by restricting it to a Book, or a set of rules? Love in and through Christ abounds freely, and lives. The letter kills because it enslaves, and puts those under it in bondage. Philippians 3 explains this well. Here was a man of the religion, as hard core as can be, but it was a loss to him concerning Jesus. As all those whom Jesus talked with, of the leaders of those days, who just didn't get it either.

The Torah pointed to Jesus. Through the lineage, through the law, through the prophets. It can never be abolished, as that would be abolishing Jesus, and what He did, said, and died for. Understand this? But as radical as they were, they, not even 1, could not "keep" that themselves. And by condemning Jesus to death, they themselves were freed.

"Father forgive them, they know not what they do!"

​

But it could have went on from there. He could have told them that it was going to happen whether they wanted it to or not. He could have told them, that no matter what, their hearts would be hardened like that of the Pharaoh, so that by the will of the Father, and the restoration of the fall, would bring us back into Grace, with God above. So the flaming sword would be brought down, and the Living Word, which is sharper than any sword, would grant us entrance into paradise.

He could have, right? Oh, but He did. They just weren't listening.



Actually He didn't "lower" the bar, He raised it to an even higher level. Can't you see this? Everything changed when Jesus died. Everything everyone thought they knew, and how they knew it, would be taken from them, and transformed unto Him. The lineages would be burned. The city would be burned and desolated. They would be scattered, throughout the earth. They would be thrown down, trodden under, and the whole world of this faith turned upside down.

All because of one Man. A Perfect Man. No more sacrifice. No more temple. No more religion. Back to the BASICS. Back to Eden. Restored unto the Kingdom, which He reigns King. How it was meant to be before the whole thing started. I am restored, and have been given the Way, which have been hidden for centuries. Now maybe you understand a little more, but than again, maybe not.

Now maybe you understand a little more, but than again, maybe not

How it was meant to be before the whole thing started? What whole thing are you referring too?

Do both covenants employ the Torah or not?

Marc

 

[Librarian]

Does the law accuse us before God?

1. http://christian.org.uk/html-publications/theology/threefold.htm
2. http://christian.org.uk/html-publications/theology/morallaw.htm

 

[Tkjjc]

Now maybe you understand a little more, but than again, maybe not

How it was meant to be before the whole thing started? What whole thing are you referring too?

Do both covenants employ the Torah or not?

Marc

To employ means to work. In the time before Jesus's death, it took work to employ the Torah. Rigorous work, thought out work, trained work, and for ALL this hard work, they still sinned and couldn't "keep" it. Jesus did the work. Kept it ALL, but not only "kept" it, He did this by the Way is was supposed to be "kept". From the heart. Out of Love for His Father. Out of Love for you and I. So when it was finished, like He said, what do you think He was referring to? His work, the work, our work. By His righteousness we are saved. His PERFECTION. Think we can achieve or even compare to this? We can only do what He told us to do, while He was here. To Love and be Loved.

We can only come into it, but never become all of it. Part of the Body, but not the whole, just a member. He led the Way, by His Truth. A gift, for you and I. To take that away, and rehash old doctrines, or laws, or statutes, or sins, or work, or anything, takes away from His GLORY, and the GLORY and Love of the Father.

Why do you think Israel was dissolved as a nation? The temple destroyed? The sacrifices stopped? For 2000 years? WOW, a long time. Doctrines and treaties brought the nation back, but it will never be the same. It will never have a temple. It will never have, what it had. It is but a reflection in passing, and not even a shadow. I love the Jews as people, but they are now no better than any of us, and I have Jewish Blood. We are ALL One in Christ, and it no longer matters, who's on first. What matters is, we ALL are on Home Plate )

And the whole thing I am referring to is Paradise. Where it all began ALL those centuries ago. Before the fall. When the earth was new and freedom and peace and ultimate Love was abound. Where the Father is worshiped and Glorified. Where there is no more sickness, sin, worry, strife, and all those things which we dislike. And most of all, death. The victory was made, after those 3 days in the tomb. Jesus is risen, is alive, and I can't wait to see Him. But I have to wait. No one knows the day nor the hour, that Father will call me home. Not even Jesus knows this. The Father calls whom He will, and when it is time, it is time. I will continue to work, in the work He commanded us to do. Bring others into His fold, and plant that seed, so the Spirit can take over. Our only job, if you can call it that. More like enjoyment and fulfillment.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

To employ means to work. In the time before Jesus's death, it took work to employ the Torah. Rigorous work, thought out work, trained work, and for ALL this hard work, they still sinned and couldn't "keep" it. Jesus did the work. Kept it ALL, but not only "kept" it, He did this by the Way is was supposed to be "kept". From the heart. Out of Love for His Father. Out of Love for you and I. So when it was finished, like He said, what do you think He was referring to? His work, the work, our work. By His righteousness we are saved. His PERFECTION. Think we can achieve or even compare to this? We can only do what He told us to do, while He was here. To Love and be Loved.

We can only come into it, but never become all of it. Part of the Body, but not the whole, just a member. He led the Way, by His Truth. A gift, for you and I. To take that away, and rehash old doctrines, or laws, or statutes, or sins, or work, or anything, takes away from His GLORY, and the GLORY and Love of the Father.

Why do you think Israel was dissolved as a nation? The temple destroyed? The sacrifices stopped? For 2000 years? WOW, a long time. Doctrines and treaties brought the nation back, but it will never be the same. It will never have a temple. It will never have, what it had. It is but a reflection in passing, and not even a shadow. I love the Jews as people, but they are now no better than any of us, and I have Jewish Blood. We are ALL One in Christ, and it no longer matters, who's on first. What matters is, we ALL are on Home Plate )

And the whole thing I am referring to is Paradise. Where it all began ALL those centuries ago. Before the fall. When the earth was new and freedom and peace and ultimate Love was abound. Where the Father is worshiped and Glorified. Where there is no more sickness, sin, worry, strife, and all those things which we dislike. And most of all, death. The victory was made, after those 3 days in the tomb. Jesus is risen, is alive, and I can't wait to see Him. But I have to wait. No one knows the day nor the hour, that Father will call me home. Not even Jesus knows this. The Father calls whom He will, and when it is time, it is time. I will continue to work, in the work He commanded us to do. Bring others into His fold, and plant that seed, so the Spirit can take over. Our only job, if you can call it that. More like enjoyment and fulfillment.

Ah but you forget to mention that the work is not done by us but it's Him that is doing the work. The Spirit of the living God that is doing the work.

Remember the difference between the OC and the NC is not the Torah because both covenants employ it.

Yes to employ means to work but who's doing the work?

It's He that is writing the Torah on our hearts Tkjjc.

What was wrong with the first covenant Tkjjc?

Was it the Torah that was faulty?

Or was it the people who broke the Torah who were faulty?

Once we can establish what was faulty then you might be able to understand.

I mean I posted : So what should God do, lower the bar and remove the Torah and say “ ok it doesn’t matter , you know what I changed my mind, I was just bluffing about all that Torah stuff. Forget all that Torah stuff it didn’t matter.” Is that what you think of God?

Then you come back with a rebuttal 'that He raised the bar'.

Tkjcc that's an excuse type post.

Of course He raised the bar BUT what bar did He raise? The Torah! That's the bar He raised.

Tkjcc with your doctrine we are doomed then because He raised the bar, His Torah.

But that's why we need Messiah. In Messiah the perfect revelation of godliness is fully realized.

The ULTIMATE completion of Messiah's work is a day is coming when the Torah will be written on our hearts in VIVID detail.

Do you know what it mean to have the Torah written on your heart in it's completeness? It will be a natural impulse. I can't say that as of right now that it's a natural impulse and that I obey Him all the time. I'm still in this body. But I'm being transformed.

It's a false belief to say that the Torah is written on our hearts in it's completeness. We assume because we have the Holy Spirit within us we assume we already have His perfect Torah placed in our minds and hearts.

Many believe that since God's law is written on their hearts, they should allow their hearts to dictate their behavior. "It doesn't feel like keeping the Sabbath is on my heart". Therefore the Sabbath has been done away with as well as others.

It hasn't been fully complete, the Torah written on our hearts. It's a process. The Torah is being written on my heart but I haven't arrived yet. For this reason I'm in need of Yeshua . He's the only One to to ever to have the Torah written in FULL upon His heart. After all isn't He living within us?

Marc
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[Tkjjc]

Well this will take some time, but Marc, my name is Tony, so if you want to talk down to me like a child, use my name, ok? But I will answer you none the less.

Ah but you forget to mention that the work is not done by us but it's Him that is doing the work. The Spirit of the living God that is doing the work.

And what pray tell me do you think the work is? If it doesn't have anything to do with bring more into the fold, His fold, and it has to do with religion, or the letter that kills, "keep" it. He tells me that the Good News is that ALL are saved, by His Son, who died for the sins of mankind. Redemption completed. It is finished. The work is done.

Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Remember the difference between the OC and the NC is not the Torah because both covenants employ it.

Really? After the death of Jesus, they still killed stuff for sacrifice? Paul was a Gentile, to the Gentiles, which means he broke all sorts of Levitical Laws? So how does the NC employ Torah? What does Jesus say about the Torah?

"Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope."

I don't set my hope on Moses, do you?

Yes to employ means to work but who's doing the work?

Regarding Torah? It is FINISHED.

It's He that is writing the Torah on our hearts Tkjjc.

He has already written His law for me on my heart, Marc. It is mine. Not yours or anyone else. My temple, my holy of holies, my spiritual sacrifices, my law, MY BODY.

What was wrong with the first covenant Tkjjc?

Nothing, I still see rainbows to remind me of the promise of the "first" covenant.

Was it the Torah that was faulty?

Or was it the people who broke the Torah who were faulty?

You answered that yourself.

Once we can establish what was faulty then you might be able to understand.

Nope, still not buying this religious stuff. Jesus was enough for me. If they took ALL the bibles and Torahs off the planet at the same time, Jesus would still ALWAYS be enough for everyone.

I mean I posted : So what should God do, lower the bar and remove the Torah and say “ ok it doesn’t matter , you know what I changed my mind, I was just bluffing about all that Torah stuff. Forget all that Torah stuff it didn’t matter.” Is that what you think of God?

Then you come back with a rebuttal 'that He raised the bar'.

Tkjcc that's an excuse type post.

Of course He raised the bar BUT what bar did He raise? The Torah! That's the bar He raised.

He raised the bar for those under the Torah, Marc. They thought they "kept" it. They didn't realize there was more to that than just a few words on stone. It was more Spiritual, with more depth, than just not doing this or observing that.

Why would this be an excuse type post? If you are under Torah, and follow the Levitical Mosaic Laws, then goody for you. Have at it brother. To each is own. I'll worship the way my heart, and spirit leads me. It is a lot more personal this way. I can talk with Father whenever and however I choose to. I know my spirit is redeemed through Jesus. You wait for Messiah, I have mine. He showed up 2000 years ago, but people were to blind to see this. They didn't listen then, and sadly don't listen now.

Tkjcc with your doctrine we are doomed then because He raised the bar, His Torah.

My doctrine? That was actually funny. No one is doomed. You think that you have eternal life in Torah. It was Torah who testified of Jesus. PERIOD! That is who you have eternal life from, so I wouldn't be waiting on Him, HE ALREADY CAME. When He comes back, it won't be as a little Lamb, It will be the Lion of Judah, with ALL the Power and Glory of God the Father. A lot of people who think they know what is going to happen, are in for a shock.

The ULTIMATE completion of Messiah's work is a day is coming when the Torah will be written on our hearts in VIVID detail.

Do you know what it mean to have the Torah written on your heart in it's completeness? It will be a natural impulse. I can't say that as of right now that it's a natural impulse and that I obey Him all the time. I'm still in this body. But I'm being transformed.

It's a false belief to say that the Torah is written on our hearts in it's completeness. We assume because we have the Holy Spirit within us we assume we already have His perfect Torah placed in our minds and hearts.

Many believe that since God's law is written on their hearts, they should allow their hearts to dictate their behavior. "It doesn't feel like keeping the Sabbath is on my heart". Therefore the Sabbath has been done away with as well as others.

It hasn't been fully complete, the Torah written on our hearts. It's a process. The Torah is being written on my heart but I haven't arrived yet. For this reason I'm in need of Yeshua . He's the only One to to ever to have the Torah written in FULL upon His heart. After all isn't He living within us?

The process you talk of, is actually overcoming the flesh. Not salvation, as that is afforded to all. Overcoming on the other hand, is something ALL of us can do, while we live in these earthen vessels. Why wait until you have to be purified later, when you can go through this purification now? The rewards are far greater for those that do.

Sin is our weaknesses, in our flesh. The carnal evil done in the sight of the Lord. It is what makes our fleshly, carnal desires, take precedence over our lives. It is the anti-christ within us. It goes against what Christ wants for us, and desires for us. It leads us to temptation, and many fall trap to it.

But we ALWAYS have an advocate in Jesus. He picks us up when we fall. Comforts us when we need comforted. My sin, isn't like your sin. Something you could easily do, maybe will convict me of wronging the Lord. This is why there isn't a set standard, or a lock on a definition.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

My doctrine? That was actually funny. No one is doomed. You think that you have eternal life in Torah. It was Torah who testified of Jesus. PERIOD! That is who you have eternal life from, so I wouldn't be waiting on Him, HE ALREADY CAME. When He comes back, it won't be as a little Lamb, It will be the Lion of Judah, with ALL the Power and Glory of God the Father. A lot of people who think they know what is going to happen, are in for a shock.

You see as others you are putting words in my mouth.

I have never said that I have eternal life in Torah.

I'll worship the way my heart, and spirit leads me. It is a lot more personal this way

With all due respect that's dangerous path. Many believe that since God's law is written on their hearts, they should allow their hearts to dictate their behavior. "It doesn't feel like keeping the Sabbath is on my heart". Therefore the Sabbath has been done away with as well as others.

The Spirit will never lead you to break Torah. If it does then it's time for a check up because we are being transformed into the image of Yeshua.

You and I agree that Yeshua was the only One to keep Torah in perfection, right?

Are you saying since we have Messiah within us He would have us turn away from the very Torah he gave?

Marc

 

[Tkjjc]

You see as others you are putting words in my mouth.

I have never said that I have eternal life in Torah.

With all due respect that's dangerous path. Many believe that since God's law is written on their hearts, they should allow their hearts to dictate their behavior. "It doesn't feel like keeping the Sabbath is on my heart". Therefore the Sabbath has been done away with as well as others.

The Spirit will never lead you to break Torah. If it does then it's time for a check up because we are being transformed into the image of Yeshua.

You and I agree that Yeshua was the only One to keep Torah in perfection, right?

Are you saying since we have Messiah within us He would have us turn away from the very Torah he gave?

Marc

But before we go on any farther, I want to take a moment. I want you to define Torah, in Hebrew, and tell me what this means. Not in some 10 page detailed report, just the basic. ok?

 

[IamAdopted]

Does the law accuse us before God?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Use this for an example.

I live in northern Alaska. No missionary from the Christian faith, nor Jewish faith, has ever talked to me. God says He has written on MY heart, His law. What law is He referring to? Those of the Judaic religion? Which is what it is, a religion. Those of the Promise to Abraham? Those of the risen Christ? What would be on my heart? Think I would get a calling to convert to something? Paul says in Romans, I would be a law unto myself, and be judged accordingly.

This would be a law of Love, my brother. This is what heathens and barbarians lacked, but not anymore. This is an unloosing of the heart, and it is transformed into a loving fleshly heart, and not stone. Are there still bad people doing bad things? Of course there are! Do you think a little hardening has happened, for the betterment of a person, or people? I believe so. God works out His plan according to His will, whatever and however that may be.
So if an Alaskan or any person, can Love and be Loved, why must we complicate this Love even further, by restricting it to a Book, or a set of rules? Love in and through Christ abounds freely, and lives. The letter kills because it enslaves, and puts those under it in bondage. Philippians 3 explains this well. Here was a man of the religion, as hard core as can be, but it was a loss to him concerning Jesus. As all those whom Jesus talked with, of the leaders of those days, who just didn't get it either.

The Torah pointed to Jesus. Through the lineage, through the law, through the prophets. It can never be abolished, as that would be abolishing Jesus, and what He did, said, and died for. Understand this? But as radical as they were, they, not even 1, could not "keep" that themselves. And by condemning Jesus to death, they themselves were freed.

"Father forgive them, they know not what they do!"

​

But it could have went on from there. He could have told them that it was going to happen whether they wanted it to or not. He could have told them, that no matter what, their hearts would be hardened like that of the Pharaoh, so that by the will of the Father, and the restoration of the fall, would bring us back into Grace, with God above. So the flaming sword would be brought down, and the Living Word, which is sharper than any sword, would grant us entrance into paradise.

He could have, right? Oh, but He did. They just weren't listening.



Actually He didn't "lower" the bar, He raised it to an even higher level. Can't you see this? Everything changed when Jesus died. Everything everyone thought they knew, and how they knew it, would be taken from them, and transformed unto Him. The lineages would be burned. The city would be burned and desolated. They would be scattered, throughout the earth. They would be thrown down, trodden under, and the whole world of this faith turned upside down.

All because of one Man. A Perfect Man. No more sacrifice. No more temple. No more religion. Back to the BASICS. Back to Eden. Restored unto the Kingdom, which He reigns King. How it was meant to be before the whole thing started. I am restored, and have been given the Way, which have been hidden for centuries. Now maybe you understand a little more, but than again, maybe not.

You were speaking of the Law of Love. Do you know that love causes us to keep the Law. That is what is said in Romans. Love is a fruit of the spirit. When you have the spirit you exhibit love. Love causes us to keep the Law.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Fulfill here does not mean to finish but it means to accomplish or to carry out.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

But before we go on any farther, I want to take a moment. I want you to define Torah, in Hebrew, and tell me what this means. Not in some 10 page detailed report, just the basic. ok?

Let me ask you.... when Yeshua said:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

What law is He referring too?

Marc

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Does the law accuse us before God?

The accuser of the brethren is Satan. That is what the bible says. The Law does not accuse. It sets standard from which you can be accused when you fall short.
If God has to judge, he must use a standard. God's Law is the standard. But he also gives us his grace so that if we fall short of the standard we will be justified. The man who rejects Grace will be accused and found guilty by the Law.
But as Paul says, just because God's grace picks us up when we fall short of the standard does than mean we should violate the standard. No, but instead we hold up the standard.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Does the law accuse us before God?

IAA on depends on the person. This is what Paul is telling us in 2 Cor. That both the NC and the OC are both fully expressed in the same Torah. The difference between the two is the person doing the reading. Under one covenant the reader is veiled, the meaning is concealed, the truth is hidden . Under the other covenant the reader is unveiled, the meaning is revealed, the recipient is being transformed into the glory of Messiah.

IAA to say that the law ONLY accuses us before God is an incorrect doctrine. Sure it accuses us but it's not the only thing. Did you know the the Torah serves another purpose according to scripture?

Why is it that people have fallen into the trap to believe that the only purpose of the Torah is to accuse. To be frank to even say that God could be like this is rediculous. People who believe in this have obviously not studied the Torah, Prophets and Writings. Because of you did IAA you wouldn't have made a statement like that.

Marc




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[IamAdopted]

The accuser of the brethren is Satan. That is what the bible says. The Law does not accuse. It sets standard from which you can be accused when you fall short.
If God has to judge, he must use a standard. God's Law is the standard. But he also gives us his grace so that if we fall short of the standard we will be justified. The man who rejects Grace will be accused and found guilty by the Law.
But as Paul says, just because God's grace picks us up when we fall short of the standard does than mean we should violate the standard. No, but instead we hold up the standard.

Read what is said about the Law and why it was put in the ark of the covenant..
Deu 31:25 that Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

 

[IamAdopted]

And we do hold Up Gods standard. We walk in Love. Towards God first and then towards our neighbors.. It is Gods love in us that abides in us by His Spirit that gives us this love.

 

[IamAdopted]

we are dead to sin. We are dead to the law.. We have died with Christ.. You cannot be dead to something and have it still apply to you..

 

[Tkjjc]

Let me ask you.... when Yeshua said:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

What law is He referring too?

Marc

This one:

"The Law and the Prophets {were proclaimed} until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it."

"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force."

"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.

"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.


So, this is His teaching, for if the First was His, by right of writing it, He can modify or change it. If the covenant has changed, so there also must be a change in the Law. Hebrews is great for this study.

The Law and the Prophets cannot EVER be abolished. I do understand this. For if it is abolished, Jesus of Nazareth could not have "kept" it perfectly. Past and present tense. It will remain, forever engraved in stone, until the very last human being is reconciled to the Father. Now you know why it cannot be abolished. Until heaven and earth "pass away". Of course He would say this. Basic Logic dictates this.

But as Hebrews 9 says, a death must occur to bring in the Second Covenant? Sadly it had to have been His death. But this was how much He LOVES you and me. This is why we follow His simple yet basic commandments, spoken by His Word, in His ministry.

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

"You are My friends if you do what I command you.

"This I command you, that you love one another.

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.

This is a whole lot different than the teaching of the Torah Mosaic Law. In that, God was God. Now it is personal. We are adopted as sons, and can call Him Father, if we Love His Son Jesus, and abide in that Love.