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Yes 1844 is unbiblical, but why abandon the Sabbath also ?

Byfaithalone1

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Paul said that (I paraphrased) in Romans.

Can you point me to the chapter and verse?

Was Adam and Eve not looking for Christ as well? Burnt Offerings were introduced after sin came into the world.

You indicated that ceremonial laws were those that were given to Israel. In light of your claim, note that burnt offerings were given before there even was an Israel. Please address this point.

Look at Christians today, and 1000 years ago. It is quite obvious that most/all of them were not convicted with respect to a given sin at all times.

So Jesus lied when He said that He would send us a helper who would convict us with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment? Perhaps it was not Christ's intent that His people would be sinless before His coming . . . .

You can't say that it isn't a sin because the Holy Spirit hasn't convicted you of it at that given time.

So the Spirit does not convict us with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment? Jesus simply made that up?

Quit building strawmen to attack. I haven't said or implied anything that you are implying there.

Please answer the questions and then I'll know what you believe and what you don't believe. Without answers, I'm simply guessing. Here again are my questions:
Have any laws changed? Do you feel that God has called you to follow every God-given command set out in Scripture? Can any jot or tittle of the law pass if there are things that have not been accomplished? Can we conclude that some jots and tittles have passed but others have not?
So has murder being wrong passed?

Has the Spirit convicted you to murder? What if you were convited to enter a holy war?

Has theft?

Has the Spirit convicted you to steal?

How about honoring your father and mother?

Has the Spirit convicted you to do something that would bring dishonor to your parents? What if you were raised by Mormon parents? Would the Spirit convict you to leave Mormonism even if it brought dishonor to your parents?

As Paul said, it is the law that convicts us of sin.

All wrong doing is sin. If any man knows to do right and does it not, to him it is sin.

If there was no law, there would be no sin

So there was no sin before the law was added?

and there would be no need for a savior.

Adam, Moses and Abraham were not in need of a Savior, even though they lived before the law was added?

Why is the Sabbath commandment with the other 9 commandments that haven't passed away?

The laws have not been abolished. Their requirements have been fully met.

Or is it suddenly OK to have other gods before God?

Is the Spirit convicting you to have other Gods?

Or to lie?

Is the Spirit convicting you to lie?

Should we sin just because God's grace is sufficient of us?

Should we sin? No.

Do we sin? Yes.

BFA
 
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JonMiller

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There were ceremonial laws given to both Israel and before. I don't see the problem, why do you?

I don't think that single verses are useful to read, read the first 3 chapters of Romans.

What is sin? Is it not the transgression of law, the law of God?

When did I ever say that Christ lied, or that the Holy Spirit doesn't convict us of sin? Obviously Crhist didn't lie, and the Holy Spirit does convict us of sin. And I don't think that we can become perfect before Christ's return, as that is when we put on immortality.

I really think that I am wasting my time, you don't appear to understand what you are talking about.

I think you have some sort of problem with the word law, which doesn't make sense and shows that you are reading your own desires into the Bible. If you go against God's will, you are breaking His law.

To help you, since you don't seem to understand the definition of the word law and that seems to be the central point of all your posts:

law

1   /lɔ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [law] Show IPA –noun 1. the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision. 2. any written or positive rule or collection of rules prescribed under the authority of the state or nation, as by the people in its constitution. Compare bylaw, statute law. 3. the controlling influence of such rules; the condition of society brought about by their observance: maintaining law and order. 4. a system or collection of such rules. 5. the department of knowledge concerned with these rules; jurisprudence: to study law. 6. the body of such rules concerned with a particular subject or derived from a particular source: commercial law. 7. an act of the supreme legislative body of a state or nation, as distinguished from the constitution. 8. the principles applied in the courts of common law, as distinguished from equity. 9. the profession that deals with law and legal procedure: to practice law. 10. legal action; litigation: to go to law. 11. a person, group, or agency acting officially to enforce the law: The law arrived at the scene soon after the alarm went off. 12. any rule or injunction that must be obeyed: Having a nourishing breakfast was an absolute law in our household. 13. a rule or principle of proper conduct sanctioned by conscience, concepts of natural justice, or the will of a deity: a moral law. 14. a rule or manner of behavior that is instinctive or spontaneous: the law of self-preservation. 15. (in philosophy, science, etc.) a. a statement of a relation or sequence of phenomena invariable under the same conditions. b. a mathematical rule. 16. a principle based on the predictable consequences of an act, condition, etc.: the law of supply and demand. 17. a rule, principle, or convention regarded as governing the structure or the relationship of an element in the structure of something, as of a language or work of art: the laws of playwriting; the laws of grammar. 18. a commandment or a revelation from God. 19. (sometimes initial capital letter
thinsp.png
) a divinely appointed order or system. 20. the Law. Law of Moses. 21. the preceptive part of the Bible, esp. of the New Testament, in contradistinction to its promises: the law of Christ. 22. British Sports. an allowance of time or distance given a quarry or competitor in a race, as the head start given a fox before the hounds are set after it.
–verb (used with object) 23. Chiefly Dialect. to sue or prosecute. 24. British. (formerly) to expeditate (an animal).
—Idioms 25. be a law to or unto oneself, to follow one's own inclinations, rules of behavior, etc.; act independently or unconventionally, esp. without regard for established mores. 26. lay down the law, a. to state one's views authoritatively. b. to give a command in an imperious manner: The manager laid down the law to the workers. 27. take the law into one's own hands, to administer justice as one sees fit without recourse to the usual law enforcement or legal processes: The townspeople took the law into their own hands before the sheriff took action.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/law

Please understand english before arguing in english on these boards.

JM
 
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Byfaithalone1

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There were ceremonial laws given to both Israel and before. I don't see the problem, why do you?

Because the Bible does not confirm it.

I don't think that single verses are useful to read, read the first 3 chapters of Romans.

OK. I did so. There are no references to anything called "ceremonial laws." Please explain.

What is sin?

All wrong doing is sin. Any man who knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin. The Spirit convicts men with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment.

When did I ever say that Christ lied, or that the Holy Spirit doesn't convict us of sin? Obviously Crhist didn't lie, and the Holy Spirit does convict us of sin.

If so, then we understand that sin can exist even in the absence of written law.

And I don't think that we can become perfect before Christ's return, as that is when we put on immortality.

Good. I am glad that we agree. Sadly, your denomination does not. The denomination's continuing and authoritative source of truth teaches that man must reach a state of sinless perfection prior to the close of probation so he may stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator.

I think you have some sort of problem with the word law, which doesn't make sense and shows that you are reading your own desires into the Bible. If you go against God's will, you are breaking His law.

How so? The passages I've discussed are explicit. For example, note the following:
(1) Romans 7:1-7 contains a clear reference to the ten commandments.
(2) 2 Corinthians 3:7-14 contains a clear reference to the letters that were engraved on stones.
(3) Galatians 4:24-34 contains a clear reference to the covenant that was from Sinai.
I prefer to allow the Bible (not dictionaries) to define "the law." Don't you?

BFA
 
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djconklin

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I prefer to allow the Bible (not dictionaries) to define "the law."
Now show the other uses of the word "law" by Paul--there's about 2 dozen or so.
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We could be doing so much more good for the race instead of engaging in these academic exercises.
The truth shall set you free from error and sin. That's why this is not simply an academic exercise.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Now show the other uses of the word "law" by Paul.

Care to discuss these?
(1) Romans 7:1-7 contains a clear reference to the ten commandments.
(2) 2 Corinthians 3:7-14 contains a clear reference to the letters that were engraved on stones.
(3) Galatians 4:24-34 contains a clear reference to the covenant that was from Sinai.
BFA
 
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