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Yes 1844 is unbiblical, but why abandon the Sabbath also ?

dragNdrop

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One thing I find troubling as a former Adventist is that most of us, do not just reject the unbiblical 1844 teachings and false visions of Mrs White, we also drop the Seventh Day Sabbath (Saturday). We must learn to select and sift the truth from error. There is no solid bible evidence that we should not keep the Sabbath as new testament Christians.

This causes the Adventist to reject all progressive attempts as apostatic. Do not reject the entire system.

So let's talk why do people reject the Sabbath which was ordained before sin (Gen 2:1-6) ?
 

Byfaithalone1

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Welcome! I like your online name.

One thing I find troubling as a former Adventist is that most of us, do not just reject the unbiblical 1844 teachings and false visions of Mrs White, we also drop the Seventh Day Sabbath (Saturday).

I certainly take no issue with you if you continue to find value in setting aside the seventh day as a day of rest. However, you seem to be advocating not only for your own ability to do so, but also for all others to do as you do. Have I misunderstood your intent?

We must learn to select and sift the truth from error. There is no solid bible evidence that we should not keep the Sabbath as new testament Christians.

Do you observe all of the holy convocations set out in Leviticus 23, or do you only observe the holy convocation set out in Verse 3?

This causes the Adventist to reject all progressive attempts as apostatic. Do not reject the entire system.

Why would you care if others do not set aside the seventh day for rest? In your mind, is the sabbath salvitic?

So let's talk why do people reject the Sabbath which was ordained before sin (Gen 2:1-6) ?

Are you aware that what you have typed above is an assumption, not a Biblical fact? The word "sabbath" does not appear prior to Exodus 16. There is no Biblical evidence that God commanded Adam to set aside one day out of seven. There is no Biblical evidence that, prior to the life of Moses, any man set aside one day out of seven. There is no Biblical evidence that God rested on the 14th day, the 21st day or the 28th day. There is no Biblical evidence that God entered into a sabbath covenant with Adam or with any person prior to the Israelites.

What do we know? We know that the sabbath was a covenant between God and Israel (see Exodus 31). We know that the sabbath was given, in part, as a memorial of the exodus from Egypt, an event that took place many years after creation (see Deuteronomy 5). We know that the sabbath was consistently included among lists of other God-given commands that SDAism does not endorse (consider Exodus 34 and Leviticus 23 for example).

We know that the law was added 430 years after Abraham and not during the creation week (see Galatians 3 and Deuteronomy 5). We know that the law was merely a shadow that pointed to the reality (see Hebrews 10). We know that Christ came to fulfill the law (see Matthew 5). We know that the law was a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ and that we are no longer under a schoolmaster (see Galatians 3). We know that Hagar represented the covenant that was from Sinai and that God gave the command to get rid of the slave woman (see Galatians 4). We know that we cannot be joined with the Spirit unless we die to the law (see Romans 7 and 2 Corinthians 3).

I have no right to judge you for your observance or non-observance of special days. However, you also do not have that authority (see Romans 14 and Colossians 2).

God bless,
BFA
 
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Byfaithalone1

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One thing I find troubling as a former Adventist is that most of us, do not just reject the unbiblical 1844 teachings and false visions of Mrs White, we also drop the Seventh Day Sabbath (Saturday). We must learn to select and sift the truth from error. There is no solid bible evidence that we should not keep the Sabbath as new testament Christians.

This causes the Adventist to reject all progressive attempts as apostatic. Do not reject the entire system.

So let's talk why do people reject the Sabbath which was ordained before sin (Gen 2:1-6) ?

Since this thread relates to the sabbath, can you share with us what you believe with respect to the seal of God and the mark of the beast?

BFA
 
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Restin

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So let's talk why do people reject the Sabbath which was ordained before sin (Gen 2:1-6) ?
Genesis 2:1-3 defines sabbath as a day when--
A. God RESTED from all the work which He had done
B. God BLESSED the seventh day
C. God SANCTIFIED the seventh day

Note: The Genesis creation story does not say there was 'morning and evening' regarding the seventh day, it just records that God RESTED, God BLESSED, God SANCTIFIED the 'seventh day'.

Who is to say God's rest is limited to a twenty-four period, other than we just jump to that conclusion because that is what is recorded about the 6 previous days in the creation story?

The words of Jesus
Matthew 11:28-29

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
KJV
One can only reject 'sabbath' if Jesus Himself is rejected.

I don't keep 'SABBATH' -- 'SABBATH' keeps me! -- 24/7
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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I am one of the few former SDAs here who is just as firm a Sabbatarian today as I was when I was an SDA, and I share your dismay in this regard. I can venture an educated guess as to why so many SDAs cease to be Sabbatarian when the leave the church.

For them, the Sabbath was part of a "package deal". They kept the Sabbath because EGW said to keep the Sabbath. When EGW's authority comes is rejected, every distinctive doctrine she taught tends to go out the window with it, although what is considered "distinctive" may vary from individual to individual. If the conviction regarding the Sabbath was rooted in EGW rather than Scripture, it is only to be expected. If she was wrong about investigative judgment, she must have been wrong about the Sabbath too. Either that, or it was the issue of the Sabbath itself that brought them out of the church.
 
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tall73

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I am one of the few former SDAs here who is just as firm a Sabbatarian today as I was when I was an SDA, and I share your dismay in this regard. I can venture an educated guess as to why so many SDAs cease to be Sabbatarian when the leave the church.

For them, the Sabbath was part of a "package deal". They kept the Sabbath because EGW said to keep the Sabbath. When EGW's authority comes is rejected, every distinctive doctrine she taught tends to go out the window with it, although what is considered "distinctive" may vary from individual to individual. If the conviction regarding the Sabbath was rooted in EGW rather than Scripture, it is only to be expected. If she was wrong about investigative judgment, she must have been wrong about the Sabbath too. Either that, or it was the issue of the Sabbath itself that brought them out of the church.


Incorrect for me, as I rejected the IJ and left over that while still keeping Sabbath for a time.

But as to the OP, regarding better able to witness to Adventists, that didn't work too well for Ford, who rejected the IJ but still holds the Sabbath.

You may want to find a guy around here named Icedragon though, who is interested in starting a grace oriented Sabbath appreciating church.
 
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dragNdrop

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Hi (Sorry for slow replies we're in different time zones)

I do not understand how people claim that the sabbath was nailed at the cross when it was fore-ordined before sin (Gen 2:1-5), neither do I understand why do people keep linking the sabbath to the Jews. There were no jews in Gen 2.

All I am pleading for as the bible loving christians who should be faithful to scripture is that we reject the Investigative Judgment which is based on a misunderstanding of Dan 8:14, Rev 14:7, etc. I have come across a number of Mrs White visions which I failed to defend with scripture.

However we should hold on to an institution that God ordained before sin, the Sabbath.

As for the Sunday Law, the Sabbath as the seal, etc: I do not know. I am still searching that. But one thing is clear brethren. Revelation 13 shows that people will be expected to honor the dragon sponsored beast or worship God who created the seas (Rev 13; Rev 14). The Sabbath could be the test of allegiance between God or the beast. But I'll still research this.

Regards
dragNdrop
 
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Byfaithalone1

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I am one of the few former SDAs here who is just as firm a Sabbatarian today as I was when I was an SDA, and I share your dismay in this regard. I can venture an educated guess as to why so many SDAs cease to be Sabbatarian when the leave the church.

For them, the Sabbath was part of a "package deal". They kept the Sabbath because EGW said to keep the Sabbath. When EGW's authority comes is rejected, every distinctive doctrine she taught tends to go out the window with it, although what is considered "distinctive" may vary from individual to individual. If the conviction regarding the Sabbath was rooted in EGW rather than Scripture, it is only to be expected. If she was wrong about investigative judgment, she must have been wrong about the Sabbath too. Either that, or it was the issue of the Sabbath itself that brought them out of the church.

Incorrect for me as well.

I had abandoned any belief that Ellen G. White is a prophet of God and that the investigative judgment is a Biblical teaching before I ever even contemplated the meaning and historical purpose of the sabbath. I had a much easier time letting go of the IJ and a much more difficult time opening my eyes to the assumptions I had made regarding the sabbath. For me, it was hardly a package deal.

I did not keep the sabbath solely because Ellen G. White said I should (although that may have been part of it). I kept the sabbath because I had been taught that the law was the eternal expression of God's character and I believed what I was told. Somehow, I missed the fact that I also believed that many of God's laws were not eternal and were not an eternal expression of God's character (such as feast days, animal sacrifices, circumcision, etc.). It seems that many sabbatarians still do.

It was in facing my assumptions and discovering which of them were based on Biblical fact that I began to take a different perspective regarding the sabbath.

BFA
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Hi (Sorry for slow replies we're in different time zones)

No worries. Take your time.

I do not understand how people claim that the sabbath was nailed at the cross when it was fore-ordined before sin (Gen 2:1-5)

First, no one here has made that claim. I made reference to Colossians 2, but only in connection with its statement that we are not to judge. The rest of my comments focused on other texts. Please consider again what I actually wrote:
The word "sabbath" does not appear prior to Exodus 16. There is no Biblical evidence that God commanded Adam to set aside one day out of seven. There is no Biblical evidence that, prior to the life of Moses, any man set aside one day out of seven. There is no Biblical evidence that God rested on the 14th day, the 21st day or the 28th day. There is no Biblical evidence that God entered into a sabbath covenant with Adam or with any person prior to the Israelites.

What do we know? We know that the sabbath was a covenant between God and Israel (see Exodus 31). We know that the sabbath was given, in part, as a memorial of the exodus from Egypt, an event that took place many years after creation (see Deuteronomy 5). We know that the sabbath was consistently included among lists of other God-given commands that SDAism does not endorse (consider Exodus 34 and Leviticus 23 for example).

We know that the law was added 430 years after Abraham and not during the creation week (see Galatians 3 and Deuteronomy 5). We know that the law was merely a shadow that pointed to the reality (see Hebrews 10). We know that Christ came to fulfill the law (see Matthew 5). We know that the law was a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ and that we are no longer under a schoolmaster (see Galatians 3). We know that Hagar represented the covenant that was from Sinai and that God gave the command to get rid of the slave woman (see Galatians 4). We know that we cannot be joined with the Spirit unless we die to the law (see Romans 7 and 2 Corinthians 3).
Can you share with me which of the above statements you find to be in error? Can you shared with us the Biblical basis for believing that the sabbath was instituted prior to sin?

neither do I understand why do people keep linking the sabbath to the Jews.

Please see Exodus 31, Exodus 34 and Deuteronomy 5. I suspect that these chapters will clear it up.

There were no jews in Gen 2.

There is no sabbath in Genesis 2.

However we should hold on to an institution that God ordained before sin, the Sabbath.

It sounds as though you are doing so. I take no issue with you for that. Why have you decided that I must do the same?

As for the Sunday Law, the Sabbath as the seal, etc: I do not know.

It's fair to say that you do not know. There are many things that I do not know, and I am probably wrong about many of the things I think I know. However, let's consider this issue further.

Would you agree that the subjects of the seal and the mark of the beast are important subjects, especially in light of the standard SDA position on these issues? The SDA denomination claims that the sabbath will become a salvational issue, the great final test that demonstrates who is of God and who is not of God. Should we seek to understand whether or not this is actually the case?

Q: Is the mark of the beast about who a man worships or when a man worships (see Revelation 14)?

Q: The Bible repeatedly indicates that we are sealed with the Spirit (see Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:21-22; and Romans 8:16). Why should we conclude that we are sealed with the sabbath?

But one thing is clear brethren. Revelation 13 shows that people will be expected to honor the dragon sponsored beast or worship God who created the seas (Rev 13; Rev 14). The Sabbath could be the test of allegiance between God or the beast. But I'll still research this.

Could be? This is a very big claim. It moves the law from being non-salvational (as Paul teaches in Titus 3:5, Romans 10:1-4; Romans 7:1-6; Romans 5:1-11; Galatians 3:10-14 and Ephesians 2:4-9) to being salvational. Is the law salvational? What are you finding as you study this subject?

BFA
 
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woobadooba

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Do you observe all of the holy convocations set out in Leviticus 23, or do you only observe the holy convocation set out in Verse 3?

I can see where you are trying to go here, but this argument really doesn't work well as these other sabbaths were not included in the Ten Commandments while the seventh day Sabbath is, which means they are to be noted as distinct from the Seventh Day Sabbath.

Moreover, not everything recorded in Leviticus has been abolished. To the contrary, many of its teachings are, in essence, complementary of the Ten Commandments.

Instead of thinking about what you may no longer have to observe in the Bible it would be far better to focus your attention on searching for links within it to better understand its purpose.


After all, Paul did say,
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV)"
 
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Byfaithalone1

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I can see where you are trying to go here, but this argument really doesn't work well as these other sabbaths were not included in the Ten Commandments while the seventh day Sabbath is, which means they are to be noted as distinct from the Seventh Day Sabbath.
Please see Exodus 34 and note that the distinction you claim does not actually exist.

BTW, is the subject of Romans 7:1-7 the laws that you call "ceremonial" or the laws that you call "moral?"


Moreover, not everything recorded in Leviticus has been abolished.
So what is the basis upon which we determine which is applicable and which is not?


Instead of thinking about what you may no longer have to observe in the Bible it would be far better to focus your attention on searching for links within it to better understand its purpose.
Following this line of reasoning, are you planning on observing the feasts, for there are links between the observance of the feasts and a number of important Biblical events?


BFA
 
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JonMiller

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Tall and I had a big discussion on the Sabbath, back before the forums were split. While it can be interpreted as coming in at creation, that isn't an obvious interpretation. A far better point to argue from is that since it is included with the 10 commandments, that like the rest of the 10 commandments it still applies. Tall's counter argument was that people felt their conscience instructing them to follow the rest of the 10 commandments while (nonSDAs) don't feel their conscience telling them to follow the Sabbath. We then agreed that both were being reasonable, and left it at that.

I think one possible argument to counter Tall's is that the Sabbath is something that people generally agree with not being Sunday. It is just that they don't think it is important either.

The whole Sabbath thing is some of the reason many of my siblings quit going to church (they want to work/play on that day and then do that instead of going to church and end up not going to church at all).

I admit that I normally play Friday night, and sometimes Saturday (if I wake too late for church) as well. But I have no SDA freinds (that I hang out with), and there isn't much for me to do Friday night and Saturday... if I had enjoyable things to do that weren't playing video games I would.

I try not to let the things I do on Saturday and Friday keep me from church though. Sometimes they do because I stay up too late Friday though. I also don't work and don't shop on the Sabbath.

JM
 
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dragNdrop

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Hi again brethren (also brother byfaithalone1)

Yes the word Sabbath does not appear before Exodus 16, however there is no question that the 7th day was sanctified and hallowed by God in Gen 2 before sin began. It is from this basis that I am arguing that people must cease linking the Sabbath with the the Cross, Old / New Covenant. This is an independent institution that God gave us to recognize him as a creator. When God instructed Israel in Exod 20 he said: "Remember the Sabbath...". You do not remember something that you were not aware of previously.

Secondly! "Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;[7]Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called a house of prayer for all people." Isaiah 56:6-7. This verse clearly shows that all who join themselves to the Lord (not the Jews only) will share in God's blessings. The Jews were God's chosen nation in the old testament, hovever the blessings endowed on them are upon all the Christians who keep the Sabbath.

Your last paragraph where you quote Galatians and other books when arguing that the law is not our schoolmaster are ok provided they not be taken out of context and ignore other scriptures demanding us to live righteously (Gal 5:22-23; II Pet 1:9).

I know of people who condone smoking, drinking, porn, etc because they say we are not under the law. These people go up in smoke when they discover that their wives are cheating on them. Why won't they excuse their wives since we're not under the law ? Becareful how you interprete these verses. Grace does not eliminate the need of observing the law. In fact those who are saved by grace 'uphold the law' Rom 3:31.

I hope this helps.

Regards
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Tall and I had a big discussion on the Sabbath, back before the forums were split. While it can be interpreted as coming in at creation, that isn't an obvious interpretation.

No, I don't think so either.

A far better point to argue from is that since it is included with the 10 commandments, that like the rest of the 10 commandments it still applies.

If so, then what are we going to do with Romans 7:1-7, 2 Corinthians 3 and Galatians 4?

Tall's counter argument was that people felt their conscience instructing them to follow the rest of the 10 commandments while (nonSDAs) don't feel their conscience telling them to follow the Sabbath.

This may not be entirely true. For example, the Spirit has convicted men to kill. The conviction of the Spirit is not limited to that which is set out in the written law.

I think one possible argument to counter Tall's is that the Sabbath is something that people generally agree with not being Sunday.

I agree. The sabbath was never the first day.

It is just that they don't think it is important either.

It's not an issue of whether or not it is important. Rather, it's a matter of fulfillment. The SDA denomination teaches and believes that laws and practices that have been fulfilled may not be immediately applicable (although an understanding of such practices may tell us something about the way that God related with His people). I believe that all sabbaths described in Leviticus 23 have been fulfilled.

The whole Sabbath thing is some of the reason many of my siblings quit going to church (they want to work/play on that day and then do that instead of going to church and end up not going to church at all).

I think that many SDAs assume that this is the reason why certain SDAs leave the denomination. Of course, such an assumption is necessary for those who believe they are members of the remnant church and that all of their current teachings represent truth. However, it isn't based on the experience of many SDAs whose study of the Scriptures has motivated their exodus from the denomination.

I admit that I normally play Friday night, and sometimes Saturday (if I wake too late for church) as well. But I have no SDA freinds (that I hang out with), and there isn't much for me to do Friday night and Saturday... if I had enjoyable things to do that weren't playing video games I would.

Play without guilt, my friend.

I try not to let the things I do on Saturday and Friday keep me from church though. Sometimes they do because I stay up too late Friday though. I also don't work and don't shop on the Sabbath.

I wonder how common this really is. I suspect that many SDAs view sabbath keeping as going to church and perhaps eating a potluck meal or going to vespers. I wonder if such folks have ever studied God's requirements for sabbath observance. I have yet to meet an SDA who offers sacrifices on the seventh day as God commanded the Israelites to do.

BFA
 
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Avonia

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I know of people who condone smoking, drinking, porn, etc because they say we are not under the law. These people go up in smoke when they discover that their wives are cheating on them. Why won't they excuse their wives since we're not under the law ?
Most bad behavior has nothing to do with whether people think they are "under the law" or not.
 
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LogosRhema

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One thing I find troubling as a former Adventist is that most of us, do not just reject the unbiblical 1844 teachings and false visions of Mrs White, we also drop the Seventh Day Sabbath (Saturday). We must learn to select and sift the truth from error. There is no solid bible evidence that we should not keep the Sabbath as new testament Christians.

This causes the Adventist to reject all progressive attempts as apostatic. Do not reject the entire system.

So let's talk why do people reject the Sabbath which was ordained before sin (Gen 2:1-6) ?

I personally believe the Sabbath was made for man, as the NT says. The idea of the Sabbath beyond worship and reverence to our God was also... rest as the OT says. If we work constantly and never take a break, even on our days off... we break down.

Its for spiritual, mental, and physical health. Adhering to it can come in many different and acceptable ways.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Yes the word Sabbath does not appear before Exodus 16, however there is no question that the 7th day was sanctified and hallowed by God in Gen 2 before sin began.

Agreed. However, can you point us to the passage where God santified and hallowed the seventh day for man's use (hint: there isn't such a reference until the book of Exodus)?

It is from this basis that I am arguing that people must cease linking the Sabbath with the the Cross, Old / New Covenant.

But we've yet to establish a Biblical basis for assuming that God gave the sabbath to man at the end of creation week. Without that basis, we are merely building doctrines on assumptions.

This is an independent institution that God gave us to recognize him as a creator.

Please read Deuteronomy 5. The sabbath was not given only as a reminder of creation. It was also given as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt, an event that had not occurred until many years after creation.

When God instructed Israel in Exod 20 he said: "Remember the Sabbath...". You do not remember something that you were not aware of previously.

Last night, for the first time ever, my daughter participated in a saltbox derby. When she left out of the door, I told her to remember her permission slip. I had never told her this before. There was no pre-existing command. It was a first-time command.

Secondly! "Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;[7]Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called a house of prayer for all people." Isaiah 56:6-7. This verse clearly shows that all who join themselves to the Lord (not the Jews only) will share in God's blessings. The Jews were God's chosen nation in the old testament, hovever the blessings endowed on them are upon all the Christians who keep the Sabbath.

Isaiah 56 is a reference to those Gentiles who dwelled alongside Israelites and lived like them. There are many parallel references to the aliens who dwell with Israelites.

However, let's consider carefully what Isaiah 56 says. Clearly, God had commanded sabbatarians to offer burnt offerings in conjunction with their sabbath observance (see also Numbers 28:9-10, 1 Chronicles 23:31, 2 Chronicles 2:4, 2 Chronicles 8:13, 2 Chronicles 31:3, Ezekiel 46:4). Can we conclude that those who do not offer such sacrifices are really observing the sabbath?

Your last paragraph where you quote Galatians and other books when arguing that the law is not our schoolmaster are ok provided they not be taken out of context and ignore other scriptures demanding us to live righteously (Gal 5:22-23; II Pet 1:9).

In fact, the Bible teaches that we must die to the law in order to be joined with the Spirit:
"Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter." Romans 7:1-6
According to Verse 7, the law being discussed clearly includes the ten commandments. The analogy here relates to marriage. A person must die to one spouse in order to be legally joined with another.

While I still take no issue whatsoever with your sabbath observance, I note that you are concerned about the fact that I have died to the law. It seems as though you would prefer that I die to the law so that I can marry the Spirit and then commit spiritual adultery with the law. Can you help me understand this?

I know of people who condone smoking, drinking, porn, etc because they say we are not under the law.

I don't know such people, and I am very sad that you do.

Jesus promised that He would sent the Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing what is to come. Justified persons are recipients of that important gift. The Spirit convicts us with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment (see John 14 and 16). The ministry of the Spirit is lasting and brings life, but the ministry of letters engraved on stones is fading and brings death (see 2 Corinthians 3).

These people go up in smoke when they discover that their wives are cheating on them. Why won't they excuse their wives since we're not under the law ? Becareful how you interprete these verses.

Indeed. Care should be taken. Here is what the Bible says:
"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be." Romans 5-6
Grace is not a license to sin, nor am I advocating for sin. Rather, I am discussing that which the Scripture teaches regarding the law. The law was added 430 years after Abraham and only until the Seed had come. Jesus Christ promised to send the Spirit, and we are indeed recipients of the ministry of the Spirit. I advocate for the Spirit, not law. I advocate for the gospel, not observances.

You wanted to know why I do not set aside every seventh day for the purpose of rest. I have articulated my reasons. My wife and I have maintained certain traditions that we established while we were sabbatarians, traditions that we enjoy. However, we don't make the claim that such traditions represent Biblical sabbath keeping and we don't advocate for others to do as we do. If the sabbath remains a blessing for you, I am happy for it and would never wish to rob you of that blessing. I have not and will not ask you to change your seventh day behavior and I have no burden one way or another regarding that which you do on the seventh day.

BFA
 
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Byfaithalone1

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I personally believe the Sabbath was made for man, as the NT says. The idea of the Sabbath beyond worship and reverence to our God was also... rest as the OT says. If we work constantly and never take a break, even on our days off... we break down.

Its for spiritual, mental, and physical health. Adhering to it can come in many different and acceptable ways.

Although I completely agree with you that rest remains an important need, I cannot agree that the Bible leaves open a number of different and acceptable ways to observe the sabbath. In fact, the Bible is quite specific as to the number of miles one can walk, the amount of weight one can carry, the types of sacrifices that are to be offered, etc. The practice of going to church does not constitute Biblical sabbath observance.

I praise God that all of us who are weary and heavy laden can come to Jesus and find rest. He is our sabbath rest.

BFA
 
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woobadooba

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Please see Exodus 34 and note that the distinction you claim does not actually exist.

BTW, is the subject of Romans 7:1-7 the laws that you call "ceremonial" or the laws that you call "moral?"


So what is the basis upon which we determine which is applicable and which is not?


Following this line of reasoning, are you planning on observing the feasts, for there are links between the observance of the feasts and a number of important Biblical events?


BFA

Frankly, what I said to you was not only true; it was very reasonable and simple too.

If you are not willing to grasp the simple logic of what I have shared with you in my previous post, then nothing that I would say to you beyond this point would make any difference. Besides, time is too valuable to me to waste on addressing straw-man arguments.

But here is what all comes down to: you will either accept the truth or you will continue to harden your heart against it. Either way, you will answer to God for what you do.
 
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LogosRhema

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Although I completely agree with you that rest remains an important need, I cannot agree that the Bible leaves open a number of different and acceptable ways to observe the sabbath. In fact, the Bible is quite specific as to the number of miles one can walk, the amount of weight one can carry, the types of sacrifices that are to be offered, etc. The practice of going to church does not constitute Biblical sabbath observance.

I praise God that all of us who are weary and heavy laden can come to Jesus and find rest. He is our sabbath rest.

BFA

I respectfully disagree.

I cannot, bearing Romans completely in mind, believe that because if I don't observe the Sabbath in a way man believes it should be that I'm somehow hell bound. If you want to be strict and without disregarding any scripture, please do explain these instructions to Moses.

Exodus 16
28 Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long will you [a] refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? 29 Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

AKA Did nothing
 
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