Yehovah God will not send you to Hell!

[d taylor]

Isn’t that a sin?

-
​

The not believing sin is also been paid for, either Jesus paid for all sin of all time, or sin has not been paid for.

 

[th1bill]

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​

The eternal separation is for not believing in Jesus and receiving God's free gift of God's Life (eternal life).

That is the only unforgivable sin, not believing and rejecting Yashuah is denying the call of Ruah ha'Qodesh, a.k.a. Holy Spirit.

 

[RileyG]

That is the only unforgivable sin, not believing and rejecting Yashuah is denying the call of Ruah ha'Qodesh, a.k.a. Holy Spirit.

Indeed, because they refuse to believe in the Holy Spirit and repent. They reject the free gift of salvation from Christ.

 

[d taylor]

That is the only unforgivable sin, not believing and rejecting Yashuah is denying the call of Ruah ha'Qodesh, a.k.a. Holy Spirit.

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​

No, that is if you are referring to the unforgivable sin in Matthew 12. Which was not an individual sin but a national sin that could have only been committed by the nation of Israel. Which the nation of Israel did commit because they rejected Jesus as the promised Messiah and in turn rejected the kingdom Jesus would have setup for Israel and the world after Jesus' death and resurrection.

This healing was a healing only The promised Messiah was prophesied to be able to heal. So it was obvious to the nation and people that Jesus was The promised Messiah
Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”
----------------------------
But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

 

[th1bill]

No, that is if you are referring to the unforgivable sin in Matthew 12. Which was not an individual sin but a national sin that could have only been committed by the nation of Israel. Which the nation of Israel did commit because they rejected Jesus as the promised Messiah and in turn rejected the kingdom Jesus would have setup for Israel and the world after Jesus' death and resurrection.

If your scripturally unsupported assumption were true, Peter, John, and thousands of Jewish people, such as Paul, were never saved.

 

[d taylor]

If your scripturally unsupported assumption were true, Peter, John, and thousands of Jewish people, such as Paul, were never saved.

-

​

No it just shows your misunderstanding of Matthew 12 and the account of blasphemy of The Spirit. The unforgivable sin was a national sin committed by The nation of Israel. This sin was never an individual sin a person could have committed.

That is why the emphasis is on generation after the sin was committed by the Pharisees for the nation of Israel.

Israel was judged and God's judgment was carried out in 70 A.D. So that sin has been committed by Israel and was Judged by God. It is over and this sin can never be committed again.

Jesus will never come again in a first advent offering the kingdom of God to the nation of Israel. So Jesus will not be rejected based on saying Jesus did His healing miracles by the power of “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”


A person either believes in Jesus for Eternal Life or they do not. But this has absolutely nothing to do with Matthew 12 and the blasphemy of The Spirit that is addressed in Matthew 12, that the nation of Israel committed.

It can be seen at the great white throne judgment (a judgment of unbelievers only), they are only sent to the lake of fire when their name is not found in The Book of Life. Nowhere does The Bible, at the great white throne judgment, state people are sent to the lake of fire because of sins or a sin (blasphemy of The Spirit)

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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Unorthodox Christian theology may only be discussed in the Controversial Christian Theology forum. These unorthodox topics do not directly oppose the Nicene Creed, but are not considered to be orthodox on CF. These unorthodox topics may not contradict the Nicene Creed. Non-Trinitarianism may only be discussed in the Outreach category forums. Gnosticism may not be discussed in any CF forums. The Controversial Christian Theology forum is open to Christian members only (faith groups list). Unorthodox Christian theological topics include (but are not limited to):​

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[d taylor]

If your scripturally unsupported assumption were true, Peter, John, and thousands of Jewish people, such as Paul, were never saved.

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​

I would suggest this book The Atonement and Other Writings

 

[1Tonne]

In the lake of fire what are people punished for???

This is answered in Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Rev 21:8

Eternal separation from God is not a punishment for a persons sins. It is the only place/location a person who has not believed in Jesus may spend eternity. To spend eternity with God a person must have while living, believed in Jesus. So that person has received The Life of God, which is required to spend eternity with God.

Most unbelievers who do not have God think that they have a pretty good life right now. So, they believe that eternity without Him is fine.

Here is an interesting verse:
Psalm 139:7–8
Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.

So, God is everywhere.

Hell is not the absence of God’s presence, but the absence of His mercy.
It is not separation from God’s being, but separation from His blessing.
So, both statements are true in different senses:

• God is present everywhere (Psalm 139).
• Hell is separation from God’s loving presence (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

The not believing sin is also been paid for, either Jesus paid for all sin of all time, or sin has not been paid for.

So, to be saved, you do not even have to believe? You are saying that God paid the price for all sins, even unbelief. So, now we do not even have to believe to be saved? Everyone is naturally saved?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Maybe evil can be done without intent. Being in error or being mistaken for example. A person doesn’t know any better.
Maybe sin is wilful choice to be evil - over and over again. A person knows better, but chooses evil.

Maybe committing sin over and over again eventually leads to a further and further departure from god (reality).

Maybe this is hell. It’s not that god isn’t there - it’s that the person has worked really hard at creating a perception that god isn’t there ???

I had just assumed lake of fire was a metaphor for hell - and hell is a description of a mental and spiritual state that are consequences of deliberate wilful choices to be evil - over and over.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Actually, Jesus said otherwise:

"Whoever does not believe in me is condemned already." (Jn 3:18)

So who we gonna' believe? . .as for me and my house. . .

What do you think 2 Cor 5:19 means? " in Christ God was reconciling the cosmos to himself, NOT COUNTING PEOPLES TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM" , to me tha plain reading says that because of Jesus, God was and is not counting men's sins against them.
Jesus either paid the price or he didn't , its all God we do nothing, our only response is to change our thinking " metanoia "to align with his.
John 4:42" Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the cosmos" it does not say potentiel savior, so either Jesus failed in his mission and is trying to at least save a few, or he did not fail and he will save all his creation, that's the truth that the devil has kept most into believing, he will say anything to make God look like the monster he is.

 

[1Tonne]

What do you think 2 Cor 5:19 means? " in Christ God was reconciling the cosmos to himself, NOT COUNTING PEOPLES TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM" , to me tha plain reading says that because of Jesus, God was and is not counting men's sins against them.
Jesus either paid the price or he didn't , its all God we do nothing, our only response is to change our thinking " metanoia "to align with his.
John 4:42" Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the cosmos" it does not say potentiel savior, so either Jesus failed in his mission and is trying to at least save a few, or he did not fail and he will save all his creation, that's the truth that the devil has kept most into believing, he will say anything to make God look like the monster he is.

So, are you saying that all someone has to do is believe and then if they continue in abhorrent habitual sin, such as killing someone on a regular occasion, then they are still saved? All they have to do is believe.

"Belief" that doesn't lead to repentance and transformation isn't saving faith.
James 2:19 says, “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” Clearly, mere intellectual belief is not enough. The demons believe, but they are not saved.
True saving faith changes a person. Jesus said in John 3:3, “Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Being born again means receiving a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:26). It means turning away from sin, not continuing in it as a regular practice.
1 John 3:9 makes it plain: “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.” A person who truly knows Christ cannot live in ongoing, unrepentant sin, especially not something as serious as murder.

Paul addresses this kind of false thinking in Romans 6:1-2: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?”

Yes, Jesus died for the world (John 3:16), and yes, belief is essential, but saving belief is more than words or mental agreement. It's a wholehearted trust that leads to obedience and a changed life.

If someone claims to believe in Jesus but continues to murder (or commit any sin without repentance), they are deceiving themselves. As Jesus said, “By their fruits you will know them” (Matthew 7:20), and “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).

So, faith in Jesus is what saves us, but someone who believes will have a change happen in them that produces good fruit. Saving faith produces new life. Anything less is not the faith Jesus calls us to.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

So, are you saying that all someone has to do is believe and then if they continue in abhorrent habitual sin, such as killing someone on a regular occasion, then they are still saved? All they have to do is believe.

"Belief" that doesn't lead to repentance and transformation isn't saving faith.
James 2:19 says, “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” Clearly, mere intellectual belief is not enough. The demons believe, but they are not saved.
True saving faith changes a person. Jesus said in John 3:3, “Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Being born again means receiving a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:26). It means turning away from sin, not continuing in it as a regular practice.
1 John 3:9 makes it plain: “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.” A person who truly knows Christ cannot live in ongoing, unrepentant sin, especially not something as serious as murder.

Paul addresses this kind of false thinking in Romans 6:1-2: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?”

Yes, Jesus died for the world (John 3:16), and yes, belief is essential, but saving belief is more than words or mental agreement. It's a wholehearted trust that leads to obedience and a changed life.

If someone claims to believe in Jesus but continues to murder (or commit any sin without repentance), they are deceiving themselves. As Jesus said, “By their fruits you will know them” (Matthew 7:20), and “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).

So, faith in Jesus is what saves us, but someone who believes will have a change happen in them that produces good fruit. Saving faith produces new life. Anything less is not the faith Jesus calls us to.

I believe Jesus saves us and did save us,we do not save ourselves by having what people call faith, that is what 2 Cor 5:19 is saying that God was reconciling the cosmos to himself, I do not believe God/Jesus failed.
By definition reconciliation only occurs if both sides are reconciled, if one side is not in agreement then there is no reconciliation, faith is coming to the understanding that God has reconciled us to himself in Jesus, metanoia is the Greek used,once you change your thinking and align with what God/Jesus has done, you are in agreement with God and you follow him.
Its not about heaven or eternal hell, its about being a part of Gods kingdom and ruling and reigning with Jesus, remember Jesus prayed that we would be one with him as he is with the Father, or being a subject of that kingdom and losing your inheritance, which is being part of the kingdom.
Jesus already took care of the saving, John 4:42 " Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the cosmos" that is a declaration not a possibility, it does not say potential savior.
This is why metanoia is so important we need to align ourselves with God/Jesus, when we do this scripture says we go from death to life, we become part of the kingdom, if you do that you will no longer be a slave to sin and as we die to self and purge out of our lives all that is not of God we become conformed to his will for our lives.
Sadly most do not do this, they live for self, Jesus said if you want to keep your soul you must lose it, if you hold on to your soul you will lose it, those who do not follow Jesus in the mortal body upon death go to what Matt 25;46 says "kolasis aionios" which is the Greek for punishment of the age, the word kolasis was a arborist term for pruning or loping off that that did not produce fruit, its a corrective punishment not punitive
God has told us in 1 Tim 2:3-6 its his will none perish but for all to have a knowledge of the truth.
3 times scripture says every knee will bow and every tongue will confess
1 Cor 15:22 As in Adam all died as in Jesus all will live.
John 12:47 Jesus came to save the world not judge it. did jesus fail in his mission?
This is the tradition that I follow, but my question was what do you think 2 Cor 5:19 is saying?

 

[1Tonne]

I believe Jesus saves us and did save us,we do not save ourselves by having what people call faith, that is what 2 Cor 5:19 is saying that God was reconciling the cosmos to himself, I do not believe God/Jesus failed.
By definition reconciliation only occurs if both sides are reconciled, if one side is not in agreement then there is no reconciliation, faith is coming to the understanding that God has reconciled us to himself in Jesus, metanoia is the Greek used,once you change your thinking and align with what God/Jesus has done, you are in agreement with God and you follow him.
Its not about heaven or eternal hell, its about being a part of Gods kingdom and ruling and reigning with Jesus, remember Jesus prayed that we would be one with him as he is with the Father, or being a subject of that kingdom and losing your inheritance, which is being part of the kingdom.
Jesus already took care of the saving, John 4:42 " Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the cosmos" that is a declaration not a possibility, it does not say potential savior.
This is why metanoia is so important we need to align ourselves with God/Jesus, when we do this scripture says we go from death to life, we become part of the kingdom, if you do that you will no longer be a slave to sin and as we die to self and purge out of our lives all that is not of God we become conformed to his will for our lives.
Sadly most do not do this, they live for self, Jesus said if you want to keep your soul you must lose it, if you hold on to your soul you will lose it, those who do not follow Jesus in the mortal body upon death go to what Matt 25;46 says "kolasis aionios" which is the Greek for punishment of the age, the word kolasis was a arborist term for pruning or loping off that that did not produce fruit, its a corrective punishment not punitive
God has told us in 1 Tim 2:3-6 its his will none perish but for all to have a knowledge of the truth.
3 times scripture says every knee will bow and every tongue will confess
1 Cor 15:22 As in Adam all died as in Jesus all will live.
John 12:47 Jesus came to save the world not judge it. did jesus fail in his mission?
This is the tradition that I follow, but my question was what do you think 2 Cor 5:19 is saying?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with much of the language you use, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself (2 Cor 5:19), that Jesus is the Saviour of the world (John 4:42), and that faith is aligning ourselves with what God has done. But I would challenge the conclusion that this reconciliation is automatic or that all are saved regardless of repentance and faith. Let’s look more closely:

2 Corinthians 5:19 "God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ"
Yes, that’s a declaration of what God has done in Christ. He opened the way for reconciliation. But we must read verse 20 too:
“We implore you on Christ’s behalf: be reconciled to God.”
That’s not passive. It means the reconciliation must be received. It’s an invitation, not a guarantee. God's part is complete in Christ, but there’s still a human response required. A gift must be accepted.

Universal statements like John 4:42 and 1 Cor 15:22
These verses declare the scope of Christ’s saving work: it's available to all. But the New Testament repeatedly conditions salvation on repentance and faith.

• John 3:18: “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already.”
• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 lists people who will not inherit the kingdom unless they are washed, sanctified, and justified (v.11).
• Hebrews 5:9: “He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.”

There’s no doubt that Christ’s work is sufficient for all, but Scripture doesn’t teach universal salvation. It teaches universal accountability.

Metanoia (repentance)
You're right — metanoia means a change of mind, but this isn’t just mental agreement. It is a change of mind from unbelief to belief.
Those who believe will leave their sin. They leave their sin not as a way to earn eternal salvation but as a result of true belief. Belief has actions with it. Some say that we are saved simply by believing, and there does not need to be any evidence with it. But belief without actions is no belief at all. How we act in life is based on our beliefs. Here are examples of how our beliefs shape the way we act:

• A person who believes in honesty will strive to be truthful, even when it's difficult.
• A Christian who believes in loving their neighbour will aim to treat others with kindness and grace.
• A materialist who believes that only physical things matter may prioritise wealth and possessions over spiritual or relational aspects of life.
• A Christian who believes in prayer prays regularly, seeks God's guidance before making decisions, and encourages others to pray in times of difficulty.
• A Buddhist who believes in non-violence avoids harming even small insects and may follow a vegetarian diet.
• A Muslim who believes in the importance of fasting observes Ramadan by refraining from food and drink during daylight hours.
• A person who believes in forgiveness chooses to let go of grudges even when they have been deeply hurt.
• A person who believes in personal responsibility works hard, avoids making excuses, and teaches their children to be independent.
• An environmentalist who believes in climate change recycles, reduces waste, and advocates for policies that protect nature.
• A pacifist who believes war is wrong may refuse military service or protest against violent conflicts.
• Someone who believes in free speech defends the rights of people to express views they personally disagree with.
• A person who believes in hard work leading to success puts in long hours and doesn’t expect handouts.
• A parent who believes children should respect their elders teaches their kids to use polite language and obey authority figures.
• A soldier who believes in duty and honour willingly risks their life for their country and follows strict discipline.
• A skydiver who believes that their parachute will open and save them will be willing to jump from a plane.

Our beliefs shape the way we act. And if we believe that God loves righteousness and that Jesus died for our sins, then we will choose to live righteously to honour our God. So, those who say they believe but do not act in accordance with their belief, have no belief at all. They are only fooling themselves with lip service.

Punishment in the age to come
You referred to kolasis aionios (Matt 25:46) as corrective. It’s true that kolasis could imply pruning or correction, but in context, Jesus contrasts eternal life and eternal punishment. The same adjective (aionios) applies to both. You can't make one temporary and the other permanent without weakening the grammar or the force of Jesus’ warning.

Did Jesus fail?
No, Jesus didn’t fail. But neither did He override human will. He accomplished redemption perfectly. On the cross He said, “It is finished.” Meaning it is complete. Yet salvation is not imposed. If someone rejects Him, they remain in darkness (John 3:19). That doesn't mean Christ failed; it means people love darkness rather than light.

So, what is 2 Corinthians 5:19 saying?
It’s saying that God’s part is done. The way is open. Sin is not the barrier anymore - unbelief is. That’s why Paul pleads in verse 20, “We beg you… be reconciled to God.”
If reconciliation were automatic, there would be no reason for the appeal. But it is offered, not forced. We must respond with faith, repentance, and surrender.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with much of the language you use, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself (2 Cor 5:19), that Jesus is the Saviour of the world (John 4:42), and that faith is aligning ourselves with what God has done. But I would challenge the conclusion that this reconciliation is automatic or that all are saved regardless of repentance and faith. Let’s look more closely:

2 Corinthians 5:19 "God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ"
Yes, that’s a declaration of what God has done in Christ. He opened the way for reconciliation. But we must read verse 20 too:
“We implore you on Christ’s behalf: be reconciled to God.”
That’s not passive. It means the reconciliation must be received. It’s an invitation, not a guarantee. God's part is complete in Christ, but there’s still a human response required. A gift must be accepted.

Universal statements like John 4:42 and 1 Cor 15:22
These verses declare the scope of Christ’s saving work: it's available to all. But the New Testament repeatedly conditions salvation on repentance and faith.

• John 3:18: “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already.”
• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 lists people who will not inherit the kingdom unless they are washed, sanctified, and justified (v.11).
• Hebrews 5:9: “He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.”

There’s no doubt that Christ’s work is sufficient for all, but Scripture doesn’t teach universal salvation. It teaches universal accountability.

Metanoia (repentance)
You're right — metanoia means a change of mind, but this isn’t just mental agreement. It is a change of mind from unbelief to belief.
Those who believe will leave their sin. They leave their sin not as a way to earn eternal salvation but as a result of true belief. Belief has actions with it. Some say that we are saved simply by believing, and there does not need to be any evidence with it. But belief without actions is no belief at all. How we act in life is based on our beliefs. Here are examples of how our beliefs shape the way we act:

• A person who believes in honesty will strive to be truthful, even when it's difficult.
• A Christian who believes in loving their neighbour will aim to treat others with kindness and grace.
• A materialist who believes that only physical things matter may prioritise wealth and possessions over spiritual or relational aspects of life.
• A Christian who believes in prayer prays regularly, seeks God's guidance before making decisions, and encourages others to pray in times of difficulty.
• A Buddhist who believes in non-violence avoids harming even small insects and may follow a vegetarian diet.
• A Muslim who believes in the importance of fasting observes Ramadan by refraining from food and drink during daylight hours.
• A person who believes in forgiveness chooses to let go of grudges even when they have been deeply hurt.
• A person who believes in personal responsibility works hard, avoids making excuses, and teaches their children to be independent.
• An environmentalist who believes in climate change recycles, reduces waste, and advocates for policies that protect nature.
• A pacifist who believes war is wrong may refuse military service or protest against violent conflicts.
• Someone who believes in free speech defends the rights of people to express views they personally disagree with.
• A person who believes in hard work leading to success puts in long hours and doesn’t expect handouts.
• A parent who believes children should respect their elders teaches their kids to use polite language and obey authority figures.
• A soldier who believes in duty and honour willingly risks their life for their country and follows strict discipline.
• A skydiver who believes that their parachute will open and save them will be willing to jump from a plane.

Our beliefs shape the way we act. And if we believe that God loves righteousness and that Jesus died for our sins, then we will choose to live righteously to honour our God. So, those who say they believe but do not act in accordance with their belief, have no belief at all. They are only fooling themselves with lip service.

Punishment in the age to come
You referred to kolasis aionios (Matt 25:46) as corrective. It’s true that kolasis could imply pruning or correction, but in context, Jesus contrasts eternal life and eternal punishment. The same adjective (aionios) applies to both. You can't make one temporary and the other permanent without weakening the grammar or the force of Jesus’ warning.

Did Jesus fail?
No, Jesus didn’t fail. But neither did He override human will. He accomplished redemption perfectly. On the cross He said, “It is finished.” Meaning it is complete. Yet salvation is not imposed. If someone rejects Him, they remain in darkness (John 3:19). That doesn't mean Christ failed; it means people love darkness rather than light.

So, what is 2 Corinthians 5:19 saying?
It’s saying that God’s part is done. The way is open. Sin is not the barrier anymore - unbelief is. That’s why Paul pleads in verse 20, “We beg you… be reconciled to God.”
If reconciliation were automatic, there would be no reason for the appeal. But it is offered, not forced. We must respond with faith, repentance, and surrender.

Thank you for your answering.
I do not understand why you have to add that in 2 Cor 15:19, " he opened the way for reconciliation" , that's not what the text is saying, its not even implied but must be added to the text to stay within tradition, God reconciling the cosmos to himself is a statement of fact not an opportunity.
Now for Matt 25:46 yes the same adjective is used but that doesn't mean they are the same in quantity. If I say a tall man stood in front of a tall skyscraper, tall is used for both but who thinks that a tall man is as tall as a skyscraper?
Aionios is like the word tall, in and of itself it means, of the age or pertaining to the age, it comes from aion which is age. The Greeks did haave a word for eternal and that is aidios, it means eternal and the Greek speakers if they wanted to have something described as eternal would use aidios not aionios.
Aionios life has no end but not because aionios means eternal, but aionios tells of the duration of that life and because its life in Jesus it has no end because he has no end. kolasis aionios is the punishment of the age, this has and end because the age has and end. This is the same mistake Augustine made, he used a bad Latin translation, the Latin he used said eternos or something like that, the Greek speakers tried to correct him but he either banished them or killed them, so guess who won that argument.
The key to this whole thing is understanding the "ages" and how God is using ages to work out his creation, and also the true definition of aion, which is not eternal.
When Jesus came and became human, he took all of humanity into himself and became sin and defeated sin and death for all humans, a few find that now but most not till the next age. The idea that you can only repent in the mortal body has no scriptural basis, its tradition to keep the masses under control, threaten them with excommunication and eternal hell people will do anything you want.

 

[Der Alte]

​

No, that sin has been paid for. So a person can not be punished for something that Jesus has already paid for.

Only if the person repents and is forgiven in this life. There is no forgiveness after death.
Psalms 88:5
(5) Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
Psalms 6:5
(5) For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

 

[d taylor]

Only if the person repents and is forgiven in this life. There is no forgiveness after death.
Psalms 88:5
(5) Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
Psalms 6:5
(5) For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

-

​

All sin has been paid for by Jesus on the cross, sin sends no one to the lake of fire.

Repenting of sin or sins for the born again child of God, restores a broken relationship the child has with God their Father. It may also help the born again believer avoid an earthly death judgment (Ananias,/Sapphira) from God their Father.

Repenting of sin or sins for the unbeliever may avoid a earthly judgment from God or just the natural consequences of sin. An example, if an unbeliever is an alcoholic and they repent of the sin of their alcoholism. Then they may not suffer some type of consequence of problems, that come with being an alcoholic.

Or repenting of a sin or sins in their life may make the unbeliever more open to believing in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. But the repenting of sin does not give a person eternal life, only the believing in Jesus does.

 

[1Tonne]

Thank you for your answering.
I do not understand why you have to add that in 2 Cor 15:19, " he opened the way for reconciliation" , that's not what the text is saying, its not even implied but must be added to the text to stay within tradition, God reconciling the cosmos to himself is a statement of fact not an opportunity.
Now for Matt 25:46 yes the same adjective is used but that doesn't mean they are the same in quantity. If I say a tall man stood in front of a tall skyscraper, tall is used for both but who thinks that a tall man is as tall as a skyscraper?
Aionios is like the word tall, in and of itself it means, of the age or pertaining to the age, it comes from aion which is age. The Greeks did haave a word for eternal and that is aidios, it means eternal and the Greek speakers if they wanted to have something described as eternal would use aidios not aionios.
Aionios life has no end but not because aionios means eternal, but aionios tells of the duration of that life and because its life in Jesus it has no end because he has no end. kolasis aionios is the punishment of the age, this has and end because the age has and end. This is the same mistake Augustine made, he used a bad Latin translation, the Latin he used said eternos or something like that, the Greek speakers tried to correct him but he either banished them or killed them, so guess who won that argument.
The key to this whole thing is understanding the "ages" and how God is using ages to work out his creation, and also the true definition of aion, which is not eternal.
When Jesus came and became human, he took all of humanity into himself and became sin and defeated sin and death for all humans, a few find that now but most not till the next age. The idea that you can only repent in the mortal body has no scriptural basis, its tradition to keep the masses under control, threaten them with excommunication and eternal hell people will do anything you want.

There are a few things worth responding to, not to argue for tradition’s sake, but to ask: Are we letting Scripture interpret Scripture, or are we reinterpreting it through a selective lens?

2 Corinthians 5:19 – “God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ”
You’re right that the text states a fact: God was reconciling (καταλλάσσων) the world to Himself. But that verse, as part of Paul’s argument, does not imply universal application without response. The very next verse says, "We implore you on Christ’s behalf: be reconciled to God" (v.20).

Why would Paul urge people to be reconciled if it was already fully and unconditionally accomplished for every individual? Reconciliation may be achieved on God’s side, but it still must be received on ours. The verb katallassō (reconcile) often implies mutuality. Even in human relationships, reconciliation is only complete when both parties agree.
This is not inserting tradition - it’s reading the full context of the passage.

Aionios - Does it mean eternal?
You're right that aionios stems from aion (age), and it can, in some contexts, refer to a limited period. However, in New Testament usage, aionios consistently refers to the unending nature of something when tied to God, life, or judgment.
You mentioned aidios as the “true” word for eternal. But interestingly, the New Testament does use both:

• Jude 6: “…reserved in everlasting [aidios] chains for judgment…”
• Romans 1:20: “His eternal [aidios] power and divine nature…”

But here’s the thing: When Jesus talks about "eternal life" (zoē aionios) and "eternal punishment" (kolasis aionios) in Matthew 25:46, He places them in direct contrast: “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Your “tall man/tall skyscraper” analogy is creative, but grammar and context matter. If aionios means a limited “age-long” punishment, then the same must apply to the “age-long” life - leading to conditional immortality, which you reject.

In the Gospels and epistles, aionios tied to life always refers to unending fellowship with God. So, if we’re going to reinterpret the punishment as temporary based on the Greek root, we should do the same with the life - and Scripture simply doesn’t allow that.

Did Jesus redeem all of humanity in actuality, or provide redemption in potential?
Yes, Jesus is the Saviour of the world (John 4:42). Yes, He died for all (2 Cor 5:14-15). But the New Testament is full of conditional statements:

• John 3:16 — “Whoever believes…”
• Acts 2:38 — “Repent and be baptized… and you will receive the gift…”
• Romans 10:9 — “If you confess… and believe… you will be saved.”

You cannot escape the conditional nature of salvation in Scripture. The cross is sufficient for all - but not efficient for all unless received by faith. That’s not a tradition invented to control the masses. That’s the consistent teaching of the apostles and of Jesus Himself.

Post-mortem repentance?
You claimed that the idea you must repent in this life is just tradition. But the Bible gives us warning after warning in this life:
“It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
Jesus told a parable in Luke 16 where the rich man dies unrepentant and is in torment. There's no hint that he'll have another chance in another age - only that a great chasm is fixed and cannot be crossed (Luke 16:26). It’s not a literal scene, but it’s a clear warning.

There is not one verse in Scripture that explicitly teaches post-mortem repentance. If that were true, it would undermine the urgency of all of Jesus’ warnings.

Final thought
I agree with you that God's will is for none to perish (1 Tim 2:4), and that every knee will bow (Phil 2:10-11). But forced submission is not saving faith. Many will bow in judgment, not in joy (see Isaiah 45, the context of Paul’s quote). God's will is not always done in individual hearts - otherwise, no one would ever sin or reject Him.

In Summary:

• Reconciliation is offered to all, but it must be received (2 Cor 5:20).
• Aionios in context refers to eternal realities - for both life and judgment.
• Salvation is conditional upon faith and repentance, not automatic.
• There is no biblical basis for repentance after death.

I’m not trying to win an argument, but I care deeply that we let Scripture speak plainly, and not force it through a framework that removes responsibility or urgency. Christ's love compels us, as Paul says, to plead with people, “Be reconciled to God.”

 

[1Tonne]

All sin has been paid for by Jesus on the cross, sin sends no one to the lake of fire.

Repenting of sin or sins for the born again child of God, restores a broken relationship the child has with God their Father. It may also help the born again believer avoid an earthly death judgment (Ananias,/Sapphira) from God their Father.

Repenting of sin or sins for the unbeliever may avoid a earthly judgment from God or just the natural consequences of sin. An example, if an unbeliever is an alcoholic and they repent of the sin of their alcoholism. Then they may not suffer some type of consequence of problems, that come with being an alcoholic.

Or repenting of a sin or sins in their life may make the unbeliever more open to believing in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. But the repenting of sin does not give a person eternal life, only the believing in Jesus does.

So, can a person simply believe and then continue in sin, such as murder? (NOTE: D Taylor has chosen not to answer my questions, so someone else may wish to ask this same question in the hope that he will answer.)

 

[trophy33]

So, can a person simply believe and then continue in sin, such as murder? (NOTE: D Taylor has chosen not to answer my questions, so someone else may wish to ask this same question in the hope that he will answer.)

Yes, you can continue in sin after you believed and still be saved. We all sin. Sin does not nullify the faith. Or else we would lose salvation daily.

The influence of the Holy Spirit will transform you so that you will leave more and more sins, but this is a process in time. Being saved and continuing murdering is basically a nonexistent situation, because it is so extreme. But for example sexual sins, stealing, lying and similar are more common.