Yale School of Medicine Requires Abortion Training for Ob/gyn Residents

[Monica02]

Ok, you have conflicting "so there" comments in that statement. You say they provide abortions, plain and simple. Then you say they do ultrasounds. Tell me, if they ONLY do abortions "plain and simple," then who do they do ultrasounds on, and why do they by your own admission refer women with high-risk pregnancies to their facility for medical care? Generally, a doctor won't refer a woman with a high-risk pregnancy to a clinic that only does abortions for an ultrasound. So obviously, they provide a degree of early prenatal care as well as abortions.

Secondly, if they hand out birth control, that means they also, by law, do physical exams and paps. So there are women going in, who aren't pregnant, for birth control and routine medical exams.

So they aren't just doing abortions "plain and simple." There are women there for routine medical care.



So most of the women who come to talk to a card-table advisor on a sidewalk who's only goal is to talk women out of getting abortions are getting abortions. Forgive me if I'm not shocked... There would be no other reason to go talk to the "sidewalk advisor" unless you were getting or considering abortion. Really, that's just common sense that most of your business would be abortion related, since talking women out of abortions is the only goal you have. A woman going for a physical or a pap or birth control has no reason to talk to you.

So because the people YOU talk to in your effort to prevent abortion are mostly there for abortion does not mean that most of the people who go to the clinic are there for abortions. It just means the people who aren't getting an abortion have no reason to give you any attention or notice.



So the fact that most of their patients may not even go for abortions matters nothing, it's "just an abortuary." That's ostrich thinking if ever I saw it.

Again, you do nothing more but reaffirm why I think that people who protest outside of clinics and offer "sidewalk advice" akin to Lucy from "The Peanuts" are doing so in an effort to gain closure and acceptance with abortion, not really to illicit any sort of change. You say again and again that they may not be there to get abortions and some may actually get abortions later, but that doesn't matter because the idea that you could help one person makes YOU feel better.

I do feel better when someone decides to not abort and so does the woman and I am sure the little baby, if he or she ever finds out would feel good. I am all for effecting changes in the abortion rate and the laws. I will never accept that abortion is moral or benificial in any way.

The abortion clinic is an abortion clinic. Of course they have an ultrasound and provide services that are necessary to perform abortions and distribute birth control. Their main order of business is abortion services.

 

[LightHorseman]

http://www.abortionaccess.org/viewpages.php?id=118

Monica, this is a training course for clinicians who want to be able to perform abortians. Its fairly safe to assume that they arent going to have a conscience issue about it. You said that they want to remove conscience clauses as they apply to medical students in general. What are you basing this on?

 

[Monica02]

http://www.abortionaccess.org/viewpages.php?id=118

Monica, this is a training course for clinicians who want to be able to perform abortians. Its fairly safe to assume that they arent going to have a conscience issue about it. You said that they want to remove conscience clauses as they apply to medical students in general. What are you basing this on?

They are actively trying to force more hospitals to offer abortion services and this could involve eliminating conscience clause protections. I think the ACLU's Reproductive Freedom Project might be the more direct one. Conscience clauses come in all forms, not just applying to medical students.

 

[LightHorseman]

Yes, but hospital offering abortion service does NOT equal the suspension of conscience. I work in a hospital that provides D+Cs, but no one could, nor would they wish, to force me to assist in that surgery.

 

[LightHorseman]

They are actively trying to force more hospitals to offer abortion services and this COULD involve eliminating conscience clause protections. I think the ACLU's Reproductive Freedom Project might be the more direct one. Conscience clauses come in all forms, not just applying to medical students.

in other words... you have no idea, and are making stuff up because it sounds bad and you want to portray these people in the worst possible light?

 

[LightHorseman]

By the way, you should all go and have a look at
http://www.christianforums.com/t3299450-abortion-illogic.html

To see the sort of ethical and logical conduct of our dear friend Monica here engages in when she feels like she might be talking to people who don't agree with her just because she would like them to.

 

[LightHorseman]

Dear Jerusha--> Its not worth the effort... she extrapolates a worst case scenario from slightly relevant data in an attempt to confirm her pre conceived ideas. Not to mention lies about people. I would hardly bother with trying to get her to tell you here sources, as there is no hotlink to Monica's imagination. Try www.monicamakesstuffup.com.org but I think the server is down

 

[LightHorseman]

Amazing that when you call someone on lying, if they believe they are innocent, they explode at you. If they know they've been nailed... they fade away

*looks around for Monica* is it my hearing aid?

 

[fillerbunny]

Oh, now that's wicked nice and mature... And, I might add, a direct violation of the TOS... If I were to do something like that, I'd get warned...

You know, this forum really peeves me off sometimes...

Agreed.

I personally find it even more bothersome that a moderator was actively engaged in / encouraging said behavior.

 

[LightHorseman]

Hi filler bunny, nice to have some support

 

[katautumn]

Just this last Saturday a young lady stopped to talk to us and we were able to help her. She told us that she was so happy we were there for her. Some doctor told her her baby had no heartbeat and he sent her to this disgusting clinic for further tests. How sick to send a woman who might have lost her baby to a place where people intentionally kill little unborn babies. The poor lady was miserable and crying , but we convinced her to not go into the abortuary but to seek better medical tests by a more qualified and compassionate staff. It turns out her baby is just fine and she was absolutely ecstatic when she saw her little one on the ultrasound (at a nice Catholic hospital staffed by compassionate and caring people). So you see, we do all kinds of good outside of abortuaries. We even have baby gift baskets and gift bags filled with toys for little children.

Wait a minute. She was able to get all of that done in a matter of three days? I smell a fib.

 

[fillerbunny]

Me too.. not to mention, if I'm reading the post correctly, (and there is indeed any truth to it), this woman was sent to the clinic for further tests. Where's the harm in that? Clearly, this woman was not seeking an abortion. She obviously wanted to carry the fetus to term- there was simply concern as to whether or not said fetus was viable. I highly doubt she would have been encouraged to terminate in this situation unless the fetus were indeed found to have no heartbeat.

Some questions..

What makes you so certain that the tests being offered at the clinic were inferior to the services being provided at the facility you referred her to? Or that the staff at the clinic were any less qualified or compassionate?

Additionally, what bearing does the religious affiliation (or lack thereof) of the facility have on its ability to provide its clients with quality medical care?

(LH, no.. thank you! )

 

[katautumn]

The place is an abortion clinic - okay. It is listed as such in the yellow pages. They offer anti-reproductive services (such as BC) The ultrasound is used mainly for abortions.

So because they are listed under Abortion Services in the phone book that means they are an abortion clinic and that's all they do? Crisis Pregnancy Centers list themselves in the same section of the phone book and I think we both know they aren't providing abortions.

 

[katautumn]

I just find it hard to believe that in a matter of three days a woman was able to get an appointment and have a series of tests conducted at a hospital and have a gift basket presented to her. I also find it hard to believe that this woman was able to see the face of her baby on the ultrasound. Monica stated that none of the women who go into this clinic are visibly pregnant, which means they are all in their first or early second trimester.

 

[Chajara]

You know, if that thread that was posted by Monica did indeed violate the rules and a moderator was in there encouraging her... I'd say that's a pretty big freaking problem. :/

 

[SallyNow]

Getting back on topic, I have now posted two posts in this thread regarding abortive techniques being used for incomplete miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies, with no response. Why? Because it shows, factually, how abortive techniques are a necessary part of any Ob/gyn's education? Because it shows that the procedure, in and of itself, is sometimes lifesaving?

If I say anything more I'll just be repeating myself...

 

[Voegelin]

Getting back on topic, I have now posted two posts in this thread regarding abortive techniques being used for incomplete miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies, with no response. Why?

Because no one disagrees I guess. I don't.

Yale is making a mistake however in getting so publically involved with Planned Parenthood. The school is above that. Yale med students are not about to making a living aborting babies. Yale New Haven Hosptial has one of the best high risk pregnancy teams in the nation, it is not a PP abortion mill training center. The hospital does have an excellent screening program the results of which I assume at times will lead some to make the decision to abort. But the screening center is there because Yale New Haven has the talent to do very complicated pre-natal surgery and fix problems before birth.

From those in the area who want no part of this stuff however, St Raphaels is a few blocks away. Very popular hospital as it is more tolerant towards those who have trouble paying the bill and, many say, the care is more personalized and less driven by doing something because the technology is there to do it.

 

[ThePenguinMafia]

This is absolutely disgusting.

How DARE the medical school force a moral stand point on them? They're the ones who are supposed to do that to the women!

 

[Voegelin]

How DARE the medical school force a moral stand point on them? They're the ones who are supposed to do that to the women!

Nothing wrong with having the position that society should protect life. Nothing wrong with having a moral position and wishing it to be expressed in law. Those do oppose the pro-life movement, those who believe we should all create our own morality, have a moral view as well. And they certainly seek to have it imposed on all. They have succeeded in doing so not by democratic action but by judicial diktat. That to me is far more oppressive than a church group lamenting that Yale Med is highlighting its affiliation with Planned Parenthood (or vice versa...not sure who is the most happy about this..I think it is PP actually).

 

[katautumn]

Nothing wrong with having the position that society should protect life. Nothing wrong with having a moral position and wishing it to be expressed in law. Those do oppose the pro-life movement, those who believe we should all create our own morality, have a moral view as well. And they certainly seek to have it imposed on all. They have succeeded in doing so not by democratic action but by judicial diktat. That to me is far more oppressive than a church group lamenting that Yale Med is highlighting its affiliation with Planned Parenthood (or vice versa...not sure who is the most happy about this..I think it is PP actually).

Sometimes abortion does protect life, even if one life must be lost in order to spare another. Some abortion procedures are not used specifically as a means to terminate a pregnancy. Some are used to remove fetal remains after a miscarriage. Sometimes they are used in cases of Ectopic Pregnancy. They serve a dual purpose and to not want these procedures to be taught simply because they are typically used to terminate a pregnancy is irresponsible.

Unfortunately there is no middle ground in the abortion debate. To give rights to an embryo would take away the rights of the woman. To give rights to the woman takes away the rights of an embryo. Since an embryo is not considered a citizen or a legal entity, rights were given to women.

People tend to come down far too hard on Planned Parenthood. Why? Is it simply because many locations do perform abortions? Some hospitals perform late-term abortions. Should people not go to those hospitals? PP is not the only place that performs abortions, but because they are an organization that has many locations, they seem to be the easiest target. People like to gloss over the fact that they do perform routine medical examinations and help women who cannot afford to seek help and care from a private OB/GYN practice. People would rather ignore all of that and say, "yeah, but they're still an abortion mill!". There is a PP located not too far from where I live. It's hilarious (and saddening) to see the protestors out there with their signs that say things like "BABIES MURDERED INSIDE!". PP does not have a single location in the state of Georgia that performs abortion services or referrals. They strictly perform examinations and offer other reproductive services.