Yahweh's Moedim (Feasts) FOREVER!

[Doug Melven]

Paul's intent is as follows;

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you ... but the Body of the Christ.

I don't really care for the CLV translation, I find it hard to read and I am used to KJV.
But what you left out in the periods changes the whole meaning of the Scripture.
Colossians 2:16-17
2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

When the translators added "is" they did so for clarification. Reading that verse without the "is" doesn't make sense.
But reading it without the "Which are a shadow of things to come" is just wrong.

 

[gadar perets]

I don't really care for the CLV translation, I find it hard to read and I am used to KJV.
But what you left out in the periods changes the whole meaning of the Scripture.
Colossians 2:16-17
2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

When the translators added "is" they did so for clarification. Reading that verse without the "is" doesn't make sense.
But reading it without the "Which are a shadow of things to come" is just wrong.

I simply shortened it to get Paul's true meaning. Adding "is" makes Yeshua the reality of the feasts, but he is not. If he was, then all the feasts would be fulfilled, not just the Spring Feasts. "Which are a shadow of things to come" is a parenthesis.

 

[HARK!]

This is an erroneous translation. "Is" is not in the Greek text. It simply says, "but the Body of the Christ". The "Body of the Christ/Messiah" is the "church" or the called out believers (Colossians 1:18, 24; Colossians 2:19; 3:15). Only a believer can judge another believer regarding the shadows mentioned. We are not to allow anyone outside the Body to judge us. When Paul wrote, "Let no one" in verse 16, he was referring to the deceivers and philosophers of verses 4, 8 & 18 who were trying to beguile the Colossians by adding their man made traditions (Colossians 2:8, 18, 20-23).

Paul's intent is as follows;

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you ... but the Body of the Christ.

I know that the CLV is a flawed translation; but it's better than most; and I have yet to find a flawless translation.

That said, my understanding of this verse is similar to yours; and you've presented a wealth of evidence related to this important detail.

 

[HARK!]

I simply shortened it to get Paul's true meaning. Adding "is" makes Yeshua the reality of the feasts, but he is not. If he was, then all the feasts would be fulfilled, not just the Spring Feasts. "Which are a shadow of things to come" is a parenthesis.

I can understand how you might remove "Which are a shadow of things to come," in order to get the true meaning; as the statement "Which are a shadow of things to come" simply helps to define the Moedim.

Although despite whatever meaning you derive by removing that statement, on the premise that it is a definition; you are still left with the premise that "Which are a shadow of things to come" helps to define the Moedim.

 

[CherubRam]

Since the days of Adam; Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings, has been a tradition of mankind. God only instructed Moses on how the people were to perform those things.



Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings


Jeremiah 7
21 This is what the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: “Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices, and eat the meat yourselves, 22 for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice.
26 However, they wouldn’t listen to Me or pay attention, but became obstinate; they did more evil than their ancestors.

Isaiah 1:12
When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts?

 

[Doug Melven]

I simply shortened it to get Paul's true meaning. Adding "is" makes Yeshua the reality of the feasts, but he is not. If he was, then all the feasts would be fulfilled, not just the Spring Feasts. "Which are a shadow of things to come" is a parenthesis.

But Christ is the reality of the Feasts. They were just shadows.
Let's look at them and see how Christ fulfilled them.
Passover. When God saw the Blood He had the angel passover them and not kill them with the Egyptians. Christ is our Passover Lamb. 1 Corinthians 5:7

Feast of Unleavened Bread, this was to commemorate there deliverance from Egypt.
Christ has freed us from sin. Romans 6:7, 18

Feast of Weeks, This was fulfilled when Jesus Christ rose from the dead and the Holy Spirit was given 50 days later at Pentecost.

Feast of Trumpets. This was a memorial feast and what happened prior to this where trumpets were blown? Exodus 19 when the Covenant was given. Jesus fulfilled this when He said in Luke 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Day of Atonement. Jesus gave His life as an atonement for our sin.

Feast of Tabernacles Pictures when God will dwell with us. 2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Matthew 1:23 Jesus is going to be called Emmanuel, God with us


Looks to me like Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of all these feasts.

 

[HARK!]

Since the days of Adam; Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings, has been a tradition of mankind. God only instructed Moses on how the people were to perform those things.



Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings


Jeremiah 7
21 This is what the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: “Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices, and eat the meat yourselves, 22 for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice.
26 However, they wouldn’t listen to Me or pay attention, but became obstinate; they did more evil than their ancestors.

Isaiah 1:12
When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts?

Indeed, in the beginning, YHWH rejected Cain's offering; but he accepted Abel's.

 

[HARK!]

They were just shadows

Remember these words.

But Christ is the reality of the Feasts. They were just shadows.
Let's look at them and see how Christ fulfilled them.
Passover. When God saw the Blood He had the angel passover them and not kill them with the Egyptians. Christ is our Passover Lamb. 1 Corinthians 5:7

Feast of Unleavened Bread, this was to commemorate there deliverance from Egypt.
Christ has freed us from sin. Romans 6:7, 18

Feast of Weeks, This was fulfilled when Jesus Christ rose from the dead and the Holy Spirit was given 50 days later at Pentecost.

Feast of Trumpets. This was a memorial feast and what happened prior to this where trumpets were blown? Exodus 19 when the Covenant was given. Jesus fulfilled this when He said in Luke 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Day of Atonement. Jesus gave His life as an atonement for our sin.

Feast of Tabernacles Pictures when God will dwell with us. 2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Matthew 1:23 Jesus is going to be called Emmanuel, God with us


Looks to me like Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of all these feasts.

Looks to me like the story of Moshe is the fulfillment of all of these feasts.

Colossians 2:16-17
2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

This was written long after Yahshua ascended.

Stay tuned!

 

[CherubRam]

Indeed, in the beginning, YHWH rejected Cain's offering; but he accepted Abel's.

Offerings of different sorts were thought of as good will gestures. They were not commanded.

 

[CherubRam]

Remember these words.



Looks to me like the story of Moshe is the fulfillment of all of these feasts.



This was written long after Yahshua ascended.

Stay tuned!

The new converts were to keep the festivals until the destruction of the temple. After the temple was destroyed we were instructed that we are the temple, and that Christ makes offerings for us in heaven.

 

[HARK!]

The new converts were to keep the festivals until the destruction of the temple.

Is this your opinion; or have you read scripture which explicitly states this?

After the temple was destroyed we were instructed that we are the temple, and that Christ makes offerings for us in heaven.

So why was this written?

(CLV) Ro 12:1
I am entreating you, then, brethren, by the pities of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice, living, holy, well pleasing to God, your logical divine service,


(CLV) 1Pt 2:5
you, also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, into a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, most acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[CherubRam]

Is this your opinion; or have you read scripture which explicitly states this?



So why was this written?

(CLV) Ro 12:1
I am entreating you, then, brethren, by the pities of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice, living, holy, well pleasing to God, your logical divine service,


(CLV) 1Pt 2:5
you, also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, into a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, most acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Yahshua answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”



John 2:21
But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

Acts 17:24
“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

2 Corinthians 6:16
What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Ephesians 2:21
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.

 

[CherubRam]

Before the destruction of the temple.


1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[HARK!]

Offerings of different sorts were thought of as good will gestures. They were not commanded.

That might be true; but there are commands on how some of these voluntary offerings must be performed.

(CLV) Lv 7:11
This is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings which one may bring near to Yahweh.

(CLV) Lv 7:12
If he should bring it near for an acclamation then along with the acclamation sacrifice he will bring near unleavened perforated cakes mingled with oil and unleavened wafers anointed with oil and well-mixed perforated cakes of flour mingled with oil.

(CLV) Lv 7:13
With perforated cakes of leavened bread shall he bring near his approach present, along with the acclamation sacrifice of his peace offerings.

(CLV) Lv 7:14
And from it he will bring near one of each kind of approach present as a heave offering to Yahweh for the priest who is sprinkling the blood of the peace offerings; his shall it become.

(CLV) Lv 7:15
As for the flesh of the acclamation sacrifice of his peace offerings, on the day of his approach present shall it be eaten. None of it shall he leave until morning.

(CLV) Lv 7:16
If his approach present is a vow or a voluntary sacrifice, it shall be eaten ion the day of his approach- with his sacrifice, and on the morrow the rest of it may be eaten.

(CLV) Lv 7:17
Yet the rest of the flesh of the sacrifice ion the third day shall be burned in fire.

(CLV) Lv 7:18
If any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings should be eaten, yea eaten-, ion the third day, the one bringing it near shall not be accepted; it shall not be reckoned to him. Vile shall it become, and the soul eating any of it, he shall bear his depravity.

 

[HARK!]

Yahshua answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”



John 2:21
But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

Acts 17:24
“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

2 Corinthians 6:16
What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Ephesians 2:21
In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.

You presented (and bolded) numerous verses about temple.

Ignoratio elenchi, also known as irrelevant conclusion,[1] is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid, but fails nonetheless to address the issue in question. More colloquially, it is also known as missing the point.

My question was about sacrifices. I don't know how I could have made that much more clear; as I highlighted the words in red.

 

[CherubRam]

You presented (and bolded) numerous verses about temple.

Ignoratio elenchi, also known as irrelevant conclusion,[1] is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid, but fails nonetheless to address the issue in question. More colloquially, it is also known as missing the point.

My question was about sacrifices. I don't know how I could have made that much more clear; as I highlighted the words in red.

I will send you a PM in a few minutes.

 

[HARK!]

Before the destruction of the temple.


1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

...and AFTER three days!

Yahshua answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

 

[gadar perets]

Since the days of Adam; Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings, has been a tradition of mankind. God only instructed Moses on how the people were to perform those things.



Festivals, Sacrifices, and Offerings


Jeremiah 7
21 This is what the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: “Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices, and eat the meat yourselves, 22 for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice.
26 However, they wouldn’t listen to Me or pay attention, but became obstinate; they did more evil than their ancestors.

This does not mean YHWH never commanded sacrifices. It means He never commanded them in the day He brought them out of Egypt. Just do a word search on sacrifice to see He did command them, but they were commanded later on after they left Egypt. All He required of them upon leaving Egypt is found in Exodus 15:26. Since they refused to obey (ie; Exodus 16:28), YHWH added sacrifices.

Isaiah 1:12
When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts?

All the things mentioned in Isaiah 1:11-15, including prayer, were not inherently bad. They were holy, but became worthless because the Israelites were committing so many evil, sinful deeds (Isaiah 1:15-20).

 

[CherubRam]

This does not mean YHWH never commanded sacrifices. It means He never commanded them in the day He brought them out of Egypt. Just do a word search on sacrifice to see He did command them, but they were commanded later on after they left Egypt. All He required of them upon leaving Egypt is found in Exodus 15:26. Since they refused to obey (ie; Exodus 16:28), YHWH added sacrifices.


All the things mentioned in Isaiah 1:11-15, including prayer, were not inherently bad. They were holy, but became worthless because the Israelites were committing so many evil, sinful deeds (Isaiah 1:15-20).

I also sent you a PM.

 

[Dave-W]

In Colossians 2:16, it says that the Festivals were given to outline things that are to come.

That is NOT what it says:

2 Col 2.16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.​

A "shadow" and an "outline" as you are using it here are NOT the same thing.