Xmas

[Anoetos]

 

[gord44]

........

 

[bsd058]

Not sure what your asking about Acts 17.

I think it's because the poster believes that the unknown God that the Athenians were worshiping was interpreted by the apostle to be the true God. He turned their religious beliefs into an opportunity to evangelize them.

 

[JM]

Again, and I expect no response, no one ever responds to this, what do you do with Acts 17?

Like gord posted, what are you trying to do with Acts 17? I do nothing with this text in connection with Christmas and you shouldn't either since its not in the scope of the text. Are you suggesting we can adopt pagan practices as long as we call them Christian? That's a huge leap in logic.

Unless you are suggestion Paul was teaching a continued worship of an unknown God I don't know how you are making the connection. You may think it is a useful argument but that dog don't hunt my brother. Again, its up to you if you'd like to keep days, make some holy and attend festivals but please do not call them "Christian."

 

[JM]

I think it's because the poster believes that the unknown God that the Athenians were worshiping was interpreted by the apostle to be the true God. He turned their religious beliefs into an opportunity to evangelize them.

The pagans on Mars didn't know God. On the other hand Christians know God the Son, the revelation of the Father and we know His will for us in scripture. Paul simply pointed out that you even acknowledge you don't know God and then stated here's the God you don't know...YHWH, revealed in Jesus Christ. It's not a good argument for Christmas.

 

[A New Dawn]

Like gord posted, what are you trying to do with Acts 17? I do nothing with this text in connection with Christmas and you shouldn't either since its not in the scope of the text. Are you suggesting we can adopt pagan practices as long as we call them Christian? That's a huge leap in logic.

Unless you are suggestion Paul was teaching a continued worship of an unknown God I don't know how you are making the connection. You may think it is a useful argument but that dog don't hunt my brother. Again, its up to you if you'd like to keep days, make some holy and attend festivals but please do not call them "Christian."

I think you are going out on a limb here, an unsupported limb, accusing your brothers and sisters in Christ of practicing pagan rituals. I'd say that observing birthdays and other important remembrances is a tradition handed to us by the Jews (who were commanded to remember them by God), and even if you cast that aside, this falls under adiaphora, nothing more.

And if celebrating Christmas causes you to stumble, then, certainly, don't celebrate it, but you crossed the line here, in your comments above. And I think you owe the fellow members of the thread an apology.

 

[bsd058]

The pagans on Mars didn't know God. On the other hand Christians know God the Son, the revelation of the Father and we know His will for us in scripture. Paul simply pointed out that you even acknowledge you don't know God and then stated here's the God you don't know...YHWH, revealed in Jesus Christ. It's not a good argument for Christmas.

Not saying that is his argument. That's the closest thing I can come to from that chapter, though.

 

[gord44]

....

 

[Loyaltwoone]

Do you celebrate Christmas?

Is it a cultural tradition or religious tradition?

Do you believe the Bible teaches that we should celebrate Christmas?

"Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen . . . for the CUSTOMS of the people are vain."(Jer 10:1-3)
Christmas is coming! Quite so; but what is "Christmas?" Does not the very term itself denote its source — "Christ-mass" Thus it is of Romish origin, brought over from Paganism. But, says someone, Christmas is the time when we commemorate the Saviour's birth. It is? And who authorised such commemoration? Certainly God did not. The Redeemer bade His disciples "remember" Him in His death, but there is not a word in Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, which tells us to celebrate His birth. Moreover, who knows when, in what month, He was born? The Bible is silent thereon. Is it without reason that the only "birthday" commemorations mentioned in God's Word are Pharoah's (Gen 40:20) and Herod's (Mat 14:6)? Is this recorded "for our learning?" If so, have we prayerfully taken it to heart?
And who is it that celebrates "Christmas?" The whole "civilised world." Millions who make no profession of faith in the blood of the Lamb, who "despise and reject Him," and millions more who while claiming to be His followers yet in works deny Him, join in merrymaking under the pretence of honouring the birth of the Lord Jesus. Putting it on its lowest ground, we would ask, Is it fitting that His friends should unite with His enemies in a worldly round of fleshly gratification? Does any truly born-again soul really think that He whom the world cast out is either pleased or glorified by such participation in the world's joys? Verily, the customs of the people are vain; and it is written, "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil" (Exo 23:2).
Some will argue for the "keeping of Christmas" on the ground of "giving the kiddies a good time." But why do this under cloak of honouring the Saviour's birth? Why is it necessary to drag in His holy name in connection with what takes place at that season of carnal jollification? Is this taking the little ones with you out of Egypt (Exo 10:9,10) a type of the world, or is it not plainly a mingling with the present-day Egyptians in their "pleasures of sin for a season?" (Heb 11:25). Scripture says, "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." (Pro 22:6). Scripture does command God's people to bring up their children "in the nurture and admonition of the Lord" (Eph 6:4), but where does it stipulate that it is our duty to give the little ones a "good time?" Do we ever give the children "a good time" when we engage in anything upon which we cannot fittingly ask the Lord's blessing?
There are those who do abstain from some of the grosser carnalities of the "festive season," yet are they nevertheless in cruel bondage to the prevailing custom of "Christmas" namely that of exchanging "gifts." We say "exchanging" for that is what it really amounts to in many cases. A list is kept, either on paper or in memory, of those from whom gifts were received last year, and that for the purpose of returning the compliment this year. Nor is this all: great care has to be taken that the "gift" made to the friend is worth as much in dollars and cents as the one they expect to receive from him or her. Thus, with many who can ill afford it, a considerable sum has to be set aside each year with which to purchase things simply to send them out in return for others which are likely to be received. Thus a burden has been bound on them which not a few find hard to bear.
But what are we to do? If we fail to send out "gifts" our friends will think hard of us, probably deem us stingy and miserly. The honest course is to go to the trouble of notifying them — by letter if at a distance — that from now on you do not propose to send out any more "Christmas gifts" as such. Give your reasons. State plainly that you have been brought to see that "Christmas merry-making" is entirely a thing of the world, devoid of any Scripture warrant; that it is a Romish institution, and that now you see this, you dare no longer have any fellowship with it (Eph 5:11); that you are the Lord's "free man" (1Co 7:22), and therefore you refuse to be in bondage to a costly custom imposed by the world.
What about sending out "Christmas cards" with a text of Scripture on them? That also is an abomination in the sight of God. Why? Because His Word expressly forbids all unholy mixtures; Deu 22:10,11 typified this. What do we mean by an "unholy mixture?" This: the linking together of the pure Word of God with the Romish "Christ-mass." By all means send cards, preferably at some other time of the year, to your ungodly friends, and [at] Christmas too, with a verse of Scripture, but not with "Christmas" on it. What would you think of a printed program of a vaudeville having Isa 53:5, at the foot of it? Why, that it was altogether out of place, highly incongruous. But in the sight of God the circus and the theatre are far less obnoxious than the "Christmas celebration" of Romish and Protestant "churches." Why? Because the latter are done under the cover of the Holy name of Christ; the former are not.
"But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day." (Pro 4:18) Where there is a heart that really desires to please the Lord, He graciously grants increasing knowledge of His will. If, He is pleased to use these lines in opening the eyes of some of His dear people to recognise what is growing evil, and to show them that they have been dishonouring Christ by linking the name of the Man of Sorrows (and such He was, when on earth) with a "Merry Christmas," then join with the writer in a repentant confessing of this sin to God, seeking His grace for complete deliverance from it, and praise Him for the light which He has granted you concerning it.
Beloved fellow-Christian, "The coming of the Lord draweth nigh." (Jam 5:8) Do we really believe this? Believe it not because the Papacy is regaining its lost temporal power, but because God says so — "for we walk by faith, not by sight." (2Co 5:7) If so, what effects does such believing have on our walk? This may be your last Christmas on earth. During it the Lord may descend from heaven with a shout to gather His own to Himself. Would you like to be summoned from a "Christmas party" to meet Him in the air? The call for the moment is, "Go ye out to meet Him" (Mat 25:6) out from a Godless Christendom, out from the Christ —deserted "churches," out from the horrible burlesque of "religion" which now masquerades under His name.
"For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2Co 5:10) How solemn and searching! The Lord Jesus declared that "every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement." (Mat 12:36) If every "idle word" is going to be taken note of, then most assuredly will be every wasted energy, every wasted dollar, every wasted hour! Should we still be on earth when the closing days of this year arrive, let writer and reader earnestly seek grace to live and act with the judgement-seat of Christ before us. His "well done" will be ample compensation for the sneers and taunts which we may now receive from countless souls.
Does any Christian reader imagine for a moment that when he or she shall stand before their holy Lord, that they will regret having lived "too strictly" on earth? Is there the slightest danger of His reproving any of His own because they were "too extreme" in "abstaining from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul." (1 Peter 2:11)? We may gain the good will and good word of worldly religionists today by our compromisings on "little (?) points," but shall we receive His smile of approval on that Day? Oh to be more concerned about what He thinks and less concerned about what perishing mortals think.
"Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil." (Exo 23:2)
Ah, it is an easy thing to float with the tide of popular opinion; but it takes much grace, diligently sought from God, to swim against it. Yet that is what the heir of heaven is called on to do: to "Be not conformed to this world" (Rom 12:2), to deny self, take up the cross, and follow a rejected Christ. How sorely does both writer and reader need to heed that word of the Saviour, "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thou crown." (Rev 3:11) Oh that each of us may be able to truthfully say, "I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep Thy Word." (Psa 119:101)
Our final word is to the pastors. To you the Word of the Lord is, "Be thou an example of believers in word, in deportment, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity." (1Ti 4:12) Is it not true that the most corrupt "churches" you know of, where almost every fundamental of the faith is denied, will have their "Christmas celebrations?" Will you imitate them? Are you consistent to protest against unscriptural methods of "raising money," and then to sanction unscriptural "Christmas services?" Seek grace to firmly but lovingly set God's Truth on this subject before your people, and announce that you can have no part in following Pagan, Romish, and Worldly customs.
N.B.—The following extract is from the late C.H. Spurgeon's exposition of Psa 81 in the Treasury of David. "Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day." (v. 3) Obedience is to direct our worship, not whim and sentiment: God's appointments gives a solemnity to rites and times which no ceremonial pomp or hierarchical ordinance could confer. The Jews not only observed the ordained month, but that part of the month which had been divinely set apart. The Lord's people in the olden time welcomed the times appointed for worship; let us feel the same exultation, and never speak of the Sabbath as though it could be other than a 'delight' and 'honourable.' Those who plead this passage as an authority for their man-appointed feasts and fasts must be moon-struck. We will keep such feast as the Lord appoints, but not those which Rome or Canterbury may ordain.
'For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob.' (v. 4) It was a precept binding upon all the tribes that a scared person should be set apart to commemorate the Lord's mercy, and truly it was but the Lord's due. He had a right and a claim to such special homage. When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide and other Popish festivals were ever instituted by a divine statute, we will also attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men as to observe the ordinances of the Lord."

 

[Eddie L]

I've been very discouraged by this conversation. I take most of this as another invention of man to get in the way of the worship of God's people. Rome's real problem was not the traditions they followed. Rome's problem was its reliance on Tradition. Why are Reformers doing the same? Rather than trust God and His Spirit to direct His people into worship, I now discover that there is a branch of Reformers who wants to control the worship of God's people through some edicts and rules.

Poor Calvin. I now understand why he hated being a church leader. The masses came out of the Roman church accustomed to their mass being described down to every action and word, and they were wary of coming together in any other fashion. If you read some of Calvin's letters, he had to deal with people wanting to know how many communions they should all have in a year, whether a baptismal font should be used and whether baptisms should occur before or after the sermon, and whether or not shops needed to be closed during festivals and holidays. Poor man.

I think I'm going to pretend I never saw this thread and continue to worship Jesus on Sundays, birthdays, anniversaries, Thanksgiving, rides to work, Bible studies during the week, at work, at home, and even while watching TV. I'll pretend I didn't hear people telling me that I should leave Jesus out of anything because I can't. He owns my whole life, and not just my time on Sunday mornings.

So Christmas sounds like "Christ Mass"? So what. I've never attended a mass. The definitions of words change, and to me Christmas is Jesus' birthday. What people who may or may not know the Lord have or haven't done for whatever reason doesn't matter to me because it is merely a human practice. The Spirit of Christ is present in those the Lord is saving, and the Spirit can turn anything into worship. I like that, because I don't have to be a Cranky Calvinist. I just get to be a joyful worshiper.

 

[Loyaltwoone]

Eddie,

I pray that you will be let by Jesus and not feelings and emotions. Please ask yourself, does it please the Lord?

I'll try to leave this site but not sure if I can yet. It's a wealth of knowledge.

albatrus.org

God Bless,

 

[Eddie L]

Eddie,

I pray that you will be let by Jesus and not feelings and emotions. Please ask yourself, does it please the Lord?

I'll try to leave this site but not sure if I can yet. It's a wealth of knowledge.

albatrus.org

God Bless,

Any worship of Jesus pleases Jesus when it is a response to grace. That's what grace is for.

 

[JM]

Most are arguing from emotion and not scripture so I'm out.

I just hope you folks think about it and do as your conscience directs, in according with scripture.

Unsubscribing, no longer following thread...

jm

PS: 'unsupported limb?' lol you quoted what I posted and it was a question, not an argument.

 

[Anoetos]

No. Paul s quite clear "the unknown god" is not Jesus. Nor does Paul present him as such.

But Paul DOES use this unknown god to preach The God Who is unknown to them.

In EXACTLY the same way that the early church appropriated pagan symbols and practices to present Christ.

 

[gord44]

.......

 

[Eddie L]

I'm not concerned that someone will take Christmas away. I'm concerned that people who have embraced grace and substitutional atonement would put such a yoke on believers. It floors me that it is deemed better to leave Jesus out of anything at all, much less Christmas.

That we observe the regulative or normative principle is, to me, an absurd question. Our obvious response to God's grace is to worship Christ in all things. Every day is a holy day to those who have received the Pearl of Great Price. To tell me to leave Jesus out of Christmas is asking the impossible. Where exactly do I leave Him?

If we truly can only worship Jesus according to some prescribed law for worship, then we have to worship in people's homes like the apostles, dance naked in the street like David, allow tongues when we have an interpreter, forsake Sunday school, consider where stained glass may have come from, never use schools or anything but a home or synagogue, baptize only by a river, get rid of special robes or lecturns, remove organs or any technology that didn't exist 2013 years ago, remove hymns written during the great awakening (they were put to the tunes of bar songs) amd kindly remove the creeds and confessions.

I suppose that might be impractical, so maybe we should appoint someone to correctly interpret the worship prescriptions for us and write them down for future generations. I'm sure it was omitted from the canon by mistake. We can't call this guy a Pope, since we rebelled against that once, but I'm sure nobody would object to worship lawmaker.

Or, just maybe, we could rely on the Spirit to work in the hearts of believers, accepting that if a mistake or two makes it through that God will see His people as though they have the righteousness of Christ anyway.

 

[RisingSpirit]

Any worship of Jesus pleases Jesus when it is a response to grace. That's what grace is for.

Christmas could be counted as a worship day for those that want to worship Jesus.

 

[Anoetos]

Yeah I don't really see that, but it's really not worth arguing about. If that's what you think the church was doing, then so be it. From what I see, it was more political to insert Christian 'holy' days in and around the days of pagan celebrations and not because of inspiration from Acts 17.

"Political"? Howso?

 

[JM]

I'm back!

The current celebration of Christmas is essential pagan, humanistic, materialistic and licentious. Albert Martin

Christmas and the Christian | Feileadh Mor

 

[stenerson]

I celebrate Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving. Not as a law or ordinance given by God.