Xmas

[JM]

I prefer to keep my riotous drinking and glutinous eating sprees religion free. (kidding)

 

[JM]

Christmas is a Bah Humbug for Christians - A Puritan's Mind Xmas 2012 on Vimeo

Does anyone else view hedonism and materialism, the encouragement thereof, as enemies to the faith?

 

[gord44]

.....

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Christmas is a Bah Humbug for Christians - A Puritan's Mind Xmas 2012 on Vimeo

Does anyone else view hedonism and materialism, the encouragement thereof, as enemies to the faith?

Christmas is not hedonistic or materialistic. One can easily make it that way but it is not that.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Same here! I don't think there is anything wrong with buying presents or anything and decorating a tree, etc.. It's a cultural thing, but we still especially remember Jesus' incarnation on that day. We read Luke 2 before anything on Christmas morning, and pray. Then come presents.

We read Luke 2 on Christmas eve before opening presents. It's been that way my whole life.

 

[JM]

Christmas is not hedonistic or materialistic. One can easily make it that way but it is not that.

Osage, it has been my experience that Christmas is hedonistic and materialistic.

One can fight the current and make it less pagan but it is. Reading some of the Puritans on this subject also brings to light the hedonistic tendencies of their age. They wrongly outlawed Christmas but you can clearly see the materialistic and hedonistic practices that we see in the practice of Christmas today were alive and well during the 16th and 17th centuries.

Christmas morning, when I was a kid, was just a greedy free for all. My folks would eat and drank til they were about to bust and then fell asleep. Christmas was the most important time of year growing up, besides Halloween, because we 'got stuff.'

How can we celebrate Christmas as a festival or Holy Day...as Bible believers? (honest question)

jm

 

[veryworried]

Do I celebrate Christmas? Yes, I do.

 

[Eddie L]

When I was a kid I lived in a very broken family. My father was an alcoholic and my step-father was worse. Violence and anger surrounded us always, and just about every Christmas after my parent's divorce was centered around a family fight, some sort of violence, or my sisters and I being left alone while my father was off at a neighbor's getting drunk. By the time I was an adult (and still not a believer), Christmas was not a big deal to me. Even subconsciously, I believe my mind was prepared for some new bad experience around that time of year.

I became a "real" Christian when my oldest child was 2 years old. By that time, the "prince of this world" had corrupted many things. The worship pastor of our first Bible-believing church was recruiting horn players for the worship team, and after I'd been playing with him for a while he started asking me to improvise and play worship solo's. In my mind, my saxophone playing was tied to serious drinking, drug use, and a very nasty attitude that I had left behind. What that worship pastor said to me changed many things for me.

"Satan does not create things, Eddie. He corrupts them. Satan didn't create your passion for music or your ability to play. He corrupted it. Jesus is in the redemption business. He can redeem all the things God created in you that was corrupted by Satan and the world."

That little conversation was a means of grace to me, because it opened up all the closed spaces of my life that I had shut away because of who I'd been in the past. Through that conversation Jesus redeemed my saxophone playing, my passion for music, and Christmas. God created celebration. He's supposed to be the center of it. That pagan holidays exist is not a creation of Satan. It is a corruption of celebration. Turning a pagan holiday into a focus on Christ is merely correcting something that was corrupted. Jesus doesn't retreat from Satan. Jesus remakes the things that Satan has ruined, like me, and music, and even Christmas.

Since then, Christmas is no longer a hard time for me. It is a celebration of Jesus, the Center and Purpose of Creation. Our family's Christmas experiences demonstrate the redeeming power of Jesus every year.

Sure, unbelievers party and spend money they don't have and live in the corrupted celebration, but what else can we expect? They are still in the Matrix, just like I was. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

 

[Anoetos]

"Satan does not create things, Eddie. He corrupts them. Satan didn't create your passion for music or your ability to play. He corrupted it. Jesus is in the redemption business. He can redeem all the things God created in you that was corrupted by Satan and the world."

That little conversation was a means of grace to me, because it opened up all the closed spaces of my life that I had shut away because of who I'd been in the past. Through that conversation Jesus redeemed my saxophone playing, my passion for music, and Christmas. God created celebration. He's supposed to be the center of it. That pagan holidays exist is not a creation of Satan. It is a corruption of celebration. Turning a pagan holiday into a focus on Christ is merely correcting something that was corrupted. Jesus doesn't retreat from Satan. Jesus remakes the things that Satan has ruined, like me, and music, and even Christmas.

This.

 

[JM]

"Satan does not create things, Eddie. He corrupts them. Satan didn't create your passion for music or your ability to play. He corrupted it. Jesus is in the redemption business. He can redeem all the things God created in you that was corrupted by Satan and the world."

That little conversation was a means of grace to me, because it opened up all the closed spaces of my life that I had shut away because of who I'd been in the past. Through that conversation Jesus redeemed my saxophone playing, my passion for music, and Christmas. God created celebration. He's supposed to be the center of it. That pagan holidays exist is not a creation of Satan. It is a corruption of celebration. Turning a pagan holiday into a focus on Christ is merely correcting something that was corrupted. Jesus doesn't retreat from Satan. Jesus remakes the things that Satan has ruined, like me, and music, and even Christmas.

This.

This is a Reformed forum but I am surprised at how Baptistic ya'll are when it comes to ignoring the Confessions on the Regulative Principle. That good ol' individualistic Baptist attitude and American pragmatism is shining through. That's not a knock but an observation. I don't care if you want to make up holidays and kept festivals, dress up the pagan calendar all you like, I just want to see scriptural reasons for doing so. The Reformers wrote critically of the Roman Catholic Church for adapting and re-dressing the old Roman religion with Christian terms and trappings and yet, we are doing the same.

I don't think Christmas is wrong, folks can do what they like, but the idea that Christmas is distinctly Christian is wrong.

Merry Xmas!

jm

 

[Osage Bluestem]

The reason the church used pagan hoildays and changed them into Christian holidays is because they were already being practiced and through their practice Christ could be magnified broadly. No matter where a person is at spiritually when Christmas or any other Christian holiday rolls around they will encounter something about Christ somewhere and have to deal with it one way or another.

 

[MartinGibbs]

Christmas is not hedonistic or materialistic. One can easily make it that way but it is not that.

I would agree. We are constantly bombarded with images and messages of "buy, buy, buy--bigger, better, more more more more." We just need to shut that all off and focus on the true meaning.

In our family, the adults give hand-made gifts (cookbooks, crafts, woodworking stuff, etc), while only kids get a gift or two. It really reduces the feeling of pressure from society.

 

[Eddie L]

This is a Reformed forum but I am surprised at how Baptistic ya'll are when it comes to ignoring the Confessions on the Regulative Principle. That good ol' individualistic Baptist attitude and American pragmatism is shining through. That's not a knock but an observation. I don't care if you want to make up holidays and kept festivals, dress up the pagan calendar all you like, I just want to see scriptural reasons for doing so. The Reformers wrote critically of the Roman Catholic Church for adapting and re-dressing the old Roman religion with Christian terms and trappings and yet, we are doing the same.

I don't think Christmas is wrong, folks can do what they like, but the idea that Christmas is distinctly Christian is wrong.

Merry Xmas!

jm

I'll agree with Calvin, that this is an issue of Christian liberty, and will take into consideration that the Puritans had an excellent theology but became so focused on PRACTICE that they eventually brought themselves down. They mandated so much that, in my view, they created their own replacement for the Roman Tradition. It has been the inevitable result of every institution of man, because whenever we create our own Law we have essentially separated our practice from the Spirit of God.

Our whole lives are a part of our worship of God. Everything we do is for the glory of God. I worship Him at work, at home, at the movies, and when I go out to eat. He is central to our music, our fellowship, and everything else. I'm glad the PCA church I attend is willing to allow God to be present in the gifts and talents He has given people.

It seems very weird to me that we would try to segregate everything into worship of God and other, more secular activities. That turns me into a Scrooge, because God is with us in every activity we do.

 

[Anoetos]

Acts 17 is instructive: Paul uses the Unknown God to preach Christ. Here is a biblical example of the appropriation of pagan worship to further the Gospel. The puritans were, frankly, wrong in their emphasis on institutional pietism over liberty.

As for your somewhat snarky comments about being baptistic, I'll just say that I would probably be in a Continental Reformed church if there were any good ones within driving distance. As it is, I enjoy and am blessed by membership in a PCA congregation which permits liberty in the matter.

 

[dysert]

Do you celebrate Christmas?

Yes.

Is it a cultural tradition or religious tradition?

Probably more cultural than religious.

Do you believe the Bible teaches that we should celebrate Christmas?

No it doesn't, but then it doesn't teach that we should celebrate Thanksgiving, Independence Day, etc.

I'm surprised that none of the posters have indicated any trouble with the term "xmas" instead of "Christmas". Yes, I'm aware of the "X" being similar to the Greek letter chi, which is the first letter in "Christ", but that's a long way to go. Even if it is more cultural than religious, why take Christ out of Christmas? As Jerry Seinfeld said, "You're X-ing out the birthday boy!"

 

[RisingSpirit]

Do you celebrate Christmas?

Is it a cultural tradition or religious tradition?

Do you believe the Bible teaches that we should celebrate Christmas?

My former job was to support a company to compete with other companies that sell products. My job was to sucker the public to by products from one company and not the other company so we can profit from the public for our own selfish reasons, greed. Americans are suckers and advertising uses subliminal messages to draw zombies to spend their savings carelessly. Now most have products they don't need and tried to compete with their love ones that their gifts are better than the other to prove that they love more than the other. Love ones stampedes over others on black Friday to buy something for you to prove their love will impress you. Most buy present for themselves.

Jesus surely don't want that.

Trillions of dollars from careless spending could solve the starvation problems in poor countries.

I find America selfish.

 

[gord44]

....

 

[Eddie L]

Any time a church exercises the power to command that the unregenerate should participate with the visible church, they are going to HAVE to follow that edict with more edicts. The unregenerate are not guided by the Spirit, so they can only be managed through a Law.

We can't compare today's Protestant Christmas to problems that the Roman Church or the early Reformed Churches had in making a population that was required to be a part of the visible Church to behave like a part of the invisible Church. Rome's problem wasn't that they were trying to worship Christ during a pagan holiday. Their problem was that they were commanding the worship of Christ to a bunch of pagans.

Scottish reformers really hated celebrating Christmas, but that was at its heart a political struggle, not a theological one. The Church of England COMMANDED Scotland to celebrate Christmas. It is understandable that those who had removed themselves from the Church of England wouldn't appreciate that. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the struggle early Reformers had with the celebration of Christmas was more a political push back than anything else. If Rome commanded the celebration of Christmas, politically minded reformers would absolutely NOT want to celebrate Christmas.

 

[RisingSpirit]

...
As for the Xmas...I prefer it over Christ Mass.

...

That sounds so Roman Catholic and I'm not so sure how protestants are supposed to react to a new catholic tradition designed by them for certain reasons probably for themselves.

 

[Anoetos]

Again, and I expect no response, no one ever responds to this, what do you do with Acts 17?