X-Baptist here 4 questions

[General_Peanut]

My opinion on the whole Tithing issue if you think baptist preach on it alot you should hear what jesus has to say...he mentions giving of tithes and sacrifices all throughnout the bible. Your are right that it does say money is the root of all evil, which places even more importance on tithing, because to give up something we as humans lust for and strive for so much to continue missions and further church growth than it is even more of a sacrifice. Also tithing supplies money to missionaries who spread the word of god, to keep churches running and programs to help spread the work and continue growth within the church. Which i think is why Jesus emphasised the giving of money.

 

[JacobHall86]

I will post a reply to these questions tonite after work, although You need to clarify what you want to know about each one of these.

The Baptist Church, especially the Southern Baptist Convention is one of the only Denominations that does not make everyone subscribe to every aspect of each part of Doctrine, IE Calvininsm and Arminiasm.

1.Your Church Membership comment isnt coherent, expand and I will answer.

2. Its better not to call someone a pagan knowing they are not, its called ad hominem, and its a logical fallacy.

3. Another Ad Hom.

4. Jacob Arminius was actually a Moderate Calvinist. Research it.

5. Yea, Legalism is forsaking the Grace by still trying to adhere to the law, we dont do it.

I'll have scripture and other thigns to refute your claims better later on tonite.

 

[RajunCajun86]

Church Membership?
and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Hebrews 10:24-25
Is that not plain enough for you “not forsaking our own assembling together”…just do it…no excuses

“R”ick Warren!
Yeah that fad is definitely not a Baptist thing it is cross denominational and I am not a huge fan anyway so there ya go

Tithing?
then it shall come about that the place in which the LORD your God will choose for His name to dwell, there you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution of your hand, and all your choice votive offerings which you will vow to the LORD.
Deuteronomy 12:11
You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
Deuteronomy 14:22
Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
Malachi 3:8
Yeah you go ahead and “rob” God of what belongs to Him and end up being like Cain and getting mad at the judgement seat because you didn’t offer what god commanded of you…just do it…no excuses

Water Baptism?
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:19
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Matthew 3:13-17
Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God who died and rose again, Part of the Godhead in His “Great Commission” says “Go…and…Baptizing them”, and Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God who died and rose again, Part of the Godhead was baptized…just do it…no excuses

Arminianism?
which He will bring about at the proper time--He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
1 Timothy 6:15-16
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:19
God is Sovereign and in complete control but He also commands us to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them” …just do it…no excuses

Legalism?
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-19
It’s not legalism it’s literal biblical theology do not “annul…the least of the commandments” or you “shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven” …just do it…no excuses

It’s a shame you are not able to talk on these subjects elsewhere…cause you need to…these are not issues with Baptist these are Protestant Christian beliefs…and no not all Baptist are going to Heaven but neither are all Catholics, Penocostals, Methodists, Mormons, Non-Denominationalists, etc etc etc

FYI: Arminianism is not “partly” of God’s grace, and God does not assist He dictates who will be saved and who will not, Arminianism is an excuse to not be accountable to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations”
Arminianism states that:
Salvation can be lost
Men are naturally unable to make any effort towards salvation
Works of human effort are not cause or contribution to salvation
God's election is conditional on faith in Jesus

 

[Soldat_fur_Christ]

My salvation and faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I know I'm a sinner, but I know by his grace I'm saved for believing in him.

Being baptized in the spirit, is receiving Christ and believing in him. Being baptized in the water shows that you're a believer and that you have accepted Christ as your Lord. Being baptized by water alone will not save you... but being baptized into the spirt of Christ by believing he died on the cross for your sins, and was buried, and resurrected is what gives you your salvation. It's clear in the Bible, that when you TRULLY come to faith in Christ, you cannot lose your salvation. Merely saying the words, but then going off living a life full of sin will show your not saved. Yes true Christians will still sin, but we will never become sinless as long as we are on earth. But our faith is in Christ Jesus, whom we know as our savior.

Please goto: www.gotquestions.org It'll have the answers to every question you may have. I'll post some links.

http://www.gotquestions.org/once-saved-always-saved.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-security.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/license-sin.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html

 

[Hagios17]

DEACONDEAN


“I joined the Baptist church because I believed that they taught just as the Bible said.” No man has a perfect system of theology and philosophy. “And what secret knowledge?” Gnosticism in its totality usually refers to a secrete knowledge outside of God’s already revealed truth (Scriptures) for the gaining of so-called truth. The scriptures are regarded as a mystery that needs solving. This sort of view is very popular amongst Christians, but a plain heresy, as revelation needs no revealing. God’s revealed wisdom (Logos) is not a mystery. The scriptures are God’s finished work alone. And if one is to add to the Bible with any foreign doctrine then one is in a Gnostic state of mind. To state that the non-spiritual decree of Temple bondage (membership) holds any relevance, especially to young believers new to the faith is Tyranny, as one in such a state is easily persuaded to join into this bondage for sake of a little more revealed knowledge on Temple matters. Church membership limits the ability of an already member of the body of Christ. There is no need to establish a second holy and divine decree of membership to the body of Christ, if it materialistic and holds no scriptural bases. Such things are hindrances from the freedom in Christ. And are certainly Gnostic.

“I have no use for Rick Warren. You shouldn't judge all by one. What if all people judged Christians by the actions of the P.T.L.'s pastor Jim Baker. Or Jimmy Swagartt?” I totally agree The Bible is the only and ultimate authority... even over The Purpose Driven Life.


“Where is tithing prohibited? Remember the widow’s mite? She was giving to the church treasury.” Jesus does not establish a doctrine of tithing in this passage. The widow was an example of sacrifice… selflessness. That’s all.


“Jesus is our example, since he was baptized in water, should not we?” Jesus Christ’s ceremonial water Baptism was one of the many things he did to fulfil the law, so that he might become that ultimate acceptable and perfect offering for our sins. Jesus did not live as an example of what we can do, but what we can’t do; otherwise grace would be the result of merit. Making grace no more grace.

”Contrary to popular belief, many, many Baptist do not subscribe to these beliefs. Monergism is what we adhere to.” Yes, I am also monergistic (Only God effects an individual’s salvation; he is the author and finisher of our salvation, as men are completely dead in their sin; enslaved… in bondage to sin. Man is separated from God and wills to rather suppress the truth than understand it.) in my doctrine, but I disagree that most Baptist’s do not subscribe to Arminianism, as it emphasises free will; autonomous agency.

“Gal. 3:22-29 tells me that the law was put there to define what sin was, but when we come to faith in the Savior, we are no longer bound to the law.” Absolutely And “All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. ” (1 Corinthians 6:12 ) “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:4-10)

”From one Baptist”. Thank you brother




PHILEOEKLOGOS


Well first lets start with a quote;

"I don't want to sound too antagonistic"

Oh really, could have fooled everyone here. You came here with some ill informed idea of what Baptists believe and try to paint everyone with a broad brush, your so called "questions" are for what purpose? I am not painting a brush over all Baptists. Baptist theology is probably some of the best, but that doesn’t mean every Baptist is a proponent of the truth.

You have invented a "Baptist" that only exists in your mind, and it doesn't even make a good strawman. Sounds like you know every Baptist alive. Can you vouch for all?

In the future, before you refute or debate anyone on their beliefs, make sure you know what they really believe and the issues that are involved, I don't think that you have demonstrated either. (Just for example, You may want to take a look at your definition of Arminianism, their are some easily spotted errors in it) ??? Show me please.

You seem to be some type of a Calvinistic, charismatic, possibly hyper dispensational fellow with some strange ideas on what Baptists believe, possibly formed by your experiences in some wacked out Baptist church somewhere, honestly I don't know where on this forum you wouldn't find fault with what people here belive. Neither John Calvin nor any other’s theology is perfect. Therefore scrutinise all doctrine with the Scriptures to see if it is in sound. And I must say, I am well pleased with Calvin’s theology for its validity, but I am not a follower of Calvin, I am a follower of Jesus Christ.


”I've run into Lone Ranger Christians before, they're going to "straighten us all out",” We must be so careful as to not be beguiled by subtle children of the devil. “I don't know what they will ever learn of fellowship, or of loving the brethren, but I hope better for you.” How does one fellowship and love the other brethren?

”I'll pray that you find a good church with a good pastor, and if that be heresy, make the most of it......” “And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)

No need for a pastor, but thank for your concern:

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. (John 6:45)




TIMBROWN


Lately Rick Warren has begun writing columns in the "Ladies Home Journal." I'm a male CNA at a nursing home. The last place I worked, they had that magazine there. And I noticed Rick's article listed on the cover. I read it.

Rick said alot about "finding your purpose" and "being spiritual" but nothing about Christ, sin or anything else of Biblical substance. If this had been a "Christian" magazine, maybe I could understand this...But this is a secular magazine. I read that column over and over hoping to see something I missed but found nothing. If I were a new ager, it would have stroked me in all the right places.

Like so many, I'm supportive of "giving as you will". The Lord loves a cheerful (greek = "hilarious") giver. If your heart is right, you will give freely...and you won't even need a calculator. I used to get so frustrated when I'd hear the tedium on Larry Burkett's program....splitting hairs on what to base your "ten percent" on. Look, if you are trying to figure what you can KEEP or what you MUST GIVE, you aren't giving with the right motive.

It's all God's, lent to us as a stewardship. Give accordingly. If we're going to demand tithing, let's tithe out of our crops and cattle too.

Wrick warren’s article from a “secular magazine”… nothing “about Christ, sin or anything else of Biblical substance”. Seams like a focus on man instead of God. Glad you see this.

Brother do you really think we owe God anything? Wasn’t Jesus’ offering enough?




TAPPANGA


“I have a few opinions on just a few things you've asked...

Church membership (The secret knowledge is only obtained by a member... sounds like Gnosticism),

In my Southern Baptist church (and every chuch I've been a member of), membership (and attendance) is for fellowship, not salvation. I don't recall any pastor giving special code that visitors weren't supposed to hear.” This is very good, but this is not an extra secrete knowledge about salvation, but the Temple matters I ma stressing. That is if Temple is relevant to a child of God.

”Wrick Warren (Bases theories on Paganism),

I'm going to assume you mean Rick Warren. Um, my church uses the Bible, not Purpose Driven Life, as our Word. “ Some Temples use Rick Warren’s book for the interpretation of the Scriptures.

”Tithing (Why on earth are Baptists preaching about money. Didn't they know that the love of money is the root of all evil. And that is no secret.),

You are not supposed to be money before God. Money is used in the church to reach non-believers. “ Money reaches believers??? I thought the Holy Ghost did that, and that all one was to do was… preach the gospel.

Water Baptism (Should I get circumsised too?),

Matthew 3:13-17. Good enough for Christ, good enough for me.
“Jesus Christ’s ceremonial water Baptism was one of the many things he did to fulfil the law, so that he might become that ultimate acceptable and perfect offering for our sins. Jesus did not live as an example of what we can do, but what we can’t do, otherwise grace would be the result of merit. Making grace no more grace.”


”Sorry I can't answer all of them. I have a meeting in twenty minutes I need to prepare for.” No problem

 

[Hagios17]

JESAIAH


”Good day, Josh. I shall try to answer your questions as best I know how.” Indeed

Church membership (The secret knowledge is only obtained by a member... sounds like Gnosticism),

”This is a major category mistake. Gnostics taught of a "secret knowledge" that basically stated the body was evil and that the spirit was good and therefore the ultimate goal was to be "freed" from the body. Church membership is far from Gnosticism.” You are describing Dualistic Gnosticism. I am describing a popular doctrine contained in all Gnosticisms… secrete knowledge…

Church membership is used to recognize the fellowship of believers. By joining a local congregation a person is joining the fellowship of belivers in Christ. Certainly you do not deny this occured... Church membership is a counterfeit of the membership one has in spirit. This carnal fallacy does not recognize the fellowship of believers in freedom, but bondage. Last I heard… we are free.

Also consider the language of Paul when he speaks of "putting" members out of the Church (1 Cor. 5:2) or of John speaking of "those going out" from us(1 John 2:19). Who is this us? It was an identified body of believers, which is the same thing as the modern understanding of church membership. “And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. (1 Corinthians 5:2) ” … “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:19) ” Are these they not born into a physical Temple or Spiritual Temple?
“

Wrick Warren (Bases theories on Paganism ),

Rick Warren is the pastor of Saddleback Commnity Church in California. He holds no official position in any Baptist denomination. If you condemn the Baptists because of their association with Rick Warren then you must condemn the majority of American Christianity, as many denominations and churches have used and applied The Purpose Driven Life principles.” In my opinion, anyone associated with Rick Warren is either confused of the Gospel or a straight forward wolf.

”With that said I have to admit that I believe Rick Warren is a good man and a Christian, but I must disagree with some of his theology both practical and doctrinal.” “And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)


“

Tithing (Why on earth are Baptists preaching about money. Didn't they know that the love of money is the root of all evil. And that is no secret.),

Tithing is not mandatory. But if you look at the New Testament you will find several passages that encourage giving to the cause of Christianity. Paul praises the early churches because of their giving (1 Corinthians 9:8-12; 1 Timothy 5:17-18;2 Corinthians 9;Romans 15:26; Philipians 4:15) to fellow churches. As well the Apostles and the early church leaders/pastors had the authority to receive money from the churches in order to support themselves (see 1 Thess 2:5-9; 1 Timothy 5:17,18; 1 Corinthians 9:8-15)


I would like you to pay special attention to the following passage you referred me to:
Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. (1 Corinthians 9:8-15)
What is Paul actually saying here?
“

Water Baptism (Should I get circumsised too?)

By denying baptism you show your error in not paying attention to either the Scriptures or the history of Christianity.” Doctrine should not come from Church history, but the Scriptures. “Baptism has been as symbol of the Christian faith since the time of Christ and baptism was a ritual often performed by God's covenant people, Israel, before Christ came. Christ himself was baptized (Matt. 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; John 1:29-34), his disciples baptized people under his administration (John 3:25-30), and he commanded his disciples to baptize converts (Matt. 28:16-20; Mark 16:14-18). In Acts you find that upon believing in Christ, the new converts are baptized (Acts 2:37-41; 8:12,13,16,29-39; 9:10-17; 10:44-48; 16:14,15, 25-34). I will stop here for the sake of time because there are many other instances in the general epistles and Pauline epistles where the practice of baptism within the Church is mentioned.” I need to give some serious study to the doctrine of baptisms, but in the mean time read the verses I posted to tulc on water baptism. The doctrine of Baptisms is a hugely disputed about topic, so I know we’ll constantly collide in likely confusion if not profoundly knowledgeable in Scripture. I will also send you a study on BAPTISMS from BIBLESTUDYMANUALS.


“

Arminianism (Merging of Semi-pelagianism and the Bible: Its maxim: "It is mine to be willing to believe, and it is the part of God's grace to assist."),

Not all Baptists are Arminian. Though many do fall under that category there are many Calvinistic Baptists and if you research the history of Baptists you will find that the majority of Baptists were Calvinistic in their origins. So you can't lump everyone together.” … just as you can’t lump Calvinists together. There are many variations of Calvinism. Not every Calvinist follows the Biblical doctrines of the TULIP.


“

Legalism (strict adherence to the law??? "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12 ) )

Again you are making the fallacy of combining everyone into the same group.” No I am not. “Legalism can be found in multiple denominations and forms of Christianity around the world. To make the claim that only Baptists are "legalistic" is intellectually dishonest.” I never said that the majority of Baptist Organisations are the only of legalistic, but so are the Catholic, Pentecostal, Methodist, Lutheran, etc, etc.

“My opinion, and I am not trying to be rude, is that you are either misguided or ignorant of the understanding of what defines a "baptist" and of the Scripture passages that concern some of the questions you have raised.” Brother, I am not boxing all Baptists. That would be pure folly. My attack is against all doctrine, only that the Baptist’s seam to be the best to speak to on the matters of the doctrine. Not to take favour over congregations, but I having been hated by many and found the least from the Baptists. Let this be a compliment to the Baptists.

”I hope my answers are coherent and feel free to ask any follow up questions.” Read the stuff on BAPTISMS from BIBLESTUDYMANUALS please. The person who runs that site diligently studies the word of truth and is a good friend of my father’s.

Justin




TULC


“

Mmm… Interesting… You quote from the Deist … I’ll quote from the Logos:

hmmm interesting, you didn't actually address the quote, you dismissed the quote. ”
Sorry. I assumed that the description of what a Deist is would be shocking to you. Well let us recap on what was said:

YOU:

"When the natural weakness and imperfection of human understanding is considered, with the unavoidable influences of education, custom, books and company, upon our ways of thinking, I imagine a man must have a good deal of vanity who believes, and a good deal of boldness who affirms, that all the doctrines he holds, are true, and all he rejects are false." -Benjamin Franklin ”

ME: Mmm… Interesting… You quote from the Deist … I’ll quote from the Logos:

"Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist." --Benjamin Franklin​

​

1) Believes in God based on reason and nature
2) Denies the scriptures as the revelation of God

“When the natural weakness and imperfection of human understanding is considered with the unavoidable influences of education, custom, books and company, upon our ways of thinking, I imagine a man must have a good deal of vanity who believes, and a good deal of boldness who affirms, that all the doctrines he holds, are true, and all he rejects are false." -Benjamin Franklin ”

Human understanding is by nature dead to the pertaining of the truth. It is not sick or weak. We are all enslaved… in bondage to sin. Under the condemnation, but God’s elect are freed from this position by an unmerited favour.

Benjamin Franklin was not a proponent of the faith, because he was a proclaiming Deist

“

I must warn you that his study is quite involved and might cause you to think

Anything is possible even thinking, so go a head!
tulc(who just the other day was struck by a stray thought and it left a welt!)

Well I pray you look the site I have just PMed you.

 

[Hagios17]

DYAMN​

“

find the things you do agree with and support them

A spiritual battle is fought from the mind and not the flesh. Any view contrary to the Bible that is set in my way is liable to be taken down. Satan uses this strategy, and therefore successfully raises up false ideas, and we as fools leave them be. We must object to doctrines of demons, even to the extent of execution.

“EXCELLENT!--If only we looked at more things that way--find what you are for--and do that, Let others be against whatever they are against.”

The only comment I have for the baptist is the forbidding of consuming or selling or working for places that sell booze in order to be a member.”


I have highlighted some verses to think about, but I hope you will read them in their context:

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.​

​

Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.​

​

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1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.​

​

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:​

​

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.​

​

​

TULC​

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12-13)

“nor of the will of man” Mmm… Interesting.

“

Aaah So you don’t believe H2O saves Did you know that the malefactor that was crucified next to Jesus was promised salvation even though he had not been baptised into H2O Or was Jesus a liar:-(

Nice try, I don't believe
A) you have to be baptized to be saved , What I did was answer your question:

So water baptism becomes a sort of initiation into the church, hey? I am foreign to this teaching… Show me where in the scriptures that water baptism is talked of in this way please?

and the scripture I gave showed that example.
and B) I love when people try and make me angry online! It shows you've run out of arguments and been reduced to name calling. So...where's the link?
tulc(who is having a lot of fun on this thread!)”

The two passages you ascribed to me do not stipulate an actual doctrine of ceremonial water baptism:
“

And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

(Acts 8:26-40)

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:44-48)

”

“POURED (WATER IS POURED) out the gift of the Holy Ghost” -- Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

The Holy Spirit is fondly enough associated with water The following are some interesting verses for you to read:

Revelation 7:16-17 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.​

​

Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:​

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Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.​

​

John 3:5-6 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.​

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​

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John 4:6-15 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.​

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John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)​

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Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,​

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Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.​

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1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

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Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.​

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Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.​

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Do you think the Holy Ghost is possibly associated with water?

 

[Hagios17]

GENERAL_PEANUT​

“My opinion on the whole Tithing issue if you think Baptists preach on it allot. You should hear what Jesus has to say...he mentions giving of tithes and sacrifices all throughout the bible. Your are right that it does say money is the root of all evil, which places even more importance on tithing, because to give up something we as humans lust for and strive for so much to continue missions and further church growth than it is even more of a sacrifice. Also tithing supplies money to missionaries who spread the word of god, to keep churches running and programs to help spread the work and continue growth within the church. Which i think is why Jesus emphasised the giving of money.” Tithing is essentially an external doctrine established to provide finance for the physical Temple structure, which was neither established by Jesus or his disciples. Money does not help the spiritual body of Christ grow. There is no need to spend an arm and a leg to travel half way round the world to preach the gospel. Money is not what is owed to God, but Caesar.



HAGIOS

 

[tulc]

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Uhmmm doesen't the scripture from Acts 10 sort of back what I said?

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (emph. added)

Get saved, get baptized. Getting baptized doesn't save you, and you can be saved and never been baptized but you asked for proof (from scripture) that getting baptized was part of joining the Church) it isn't required, but in the early Church they seemed to do it a lot.
tulc(thanks for the link, it seemed to say what I already believe)

 

[RajunCajun86]

then it shall come about that the place in which the LORD your God will choose for His name to dwell, there you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution of your hand, and all your choice votive offerings which you will vow to the LORD.
Deuteronomy 12:11
You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
Deuteronomy 14:22
Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
Malachi 3:8

what part of the above verses is hard to obey, are you just little "Cains" running around and can't do what God asks of you?

 

[RajunCajun86]

Matthew 3:13-17. Good enough for Christ, good enough for me.
“Jesus Christ’s ceremonial water Baptism was one of the many things he did to fulfil the law, so that he might become that ultimate acceptable and perfect offering for our sins. Jesus did not live as an example of what we can do, but what we can’t do, otherwise grace would be the result of merit. Making grace no more grace.”

first of all shame on you for using red letters, it would be a little different if you were right in what you are saying...secondly yes Jesus' baptism did fulfil prophecy but as a sign of public committment why wouldn't you do it...yeah you don't HAVE to to be saved but why wouldn't you i think is the bigger question are you that bent on having things your own way that you wouldn't obey THE GREAT COMMISSION...
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Matthew 28
Jesus was dunked under water by John the Baptist and called it being baptized...at His Great Ascension He told us to "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"...GO and be Baptized...not that hard...just do it

 

[Ioustinos]

You are describing Dualistic Gnosticism. I am describing a popular doctrine contained in all Gnosticisms… secrete knowledge…

I would ask you to explain how the practice of church membership is a form of Gnosticism. Plese provide proof to the assertion that Baptists give "secret knowledge" to only those who are part of the church membership. Baptist teach that salvation is through grace by faith. Nothing "secret" here, just biblical.

Church membership is a counterfeit of the membership one has in spirit. This carnal fallacy does not recognize the fellowship of believers in freedom, but bondage. Last I heard… we are free.

Explain to me then why, if church membership is unscriptural, why churches existed in both Jerusalem and Antioch. Remember that James the brother of Jesus was the leader of the church in Jerusalem and Peter was also a leader of that congregation. Paul and Barnabas were members of the church at Antioch. How then do you say that church membership is counterfeit when it was practiced by the Apostles and the early church?

Church at Jerusalem: Acts 11:22
Church at Antioch: Acts 13:1-3

Added to that the majority of Paul's epistles (save his pastoral epistles) are addressed to various churches.

Also your freedom is in regards to spiritual bondage to sin. In that case, yes we are free. But also remember that we are now servants and bondslaves of Christ and are called to be obedient to Him.

“And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. (1 Corinthians 5:2) ” … “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:19) ” Are these they not born into a physical Temple or Spiritual Temple?

If I am understanding your argumentation, you are stating that John and Paul were speaking of putting them out of a "spiritual" temple. If so, please explain to me how YOU or I can remove someone from a spiritual temple? Obviously the language is explicitly speaking of denying fellowship or people removing themselves from physical fellowship of the other believers (1 Cor. 5:2 and 1 John 2:19 respectively). This was a physical removal or withdrawl from a physical, local congregation or membership of believers.

In my opinion, anyone associated with Rick Warren is either confused of the Gospel or a straight forward wolf.

Again you are brushing with too broad a brush. Rick Warren is non-denominational. He is not a Baptist nor does he hold position within any baptist convention. Therefore to site Rick Warren as a reason why you left the baptist denomination is to do so in accurately because Rick Warren does not represent baptists.

Tithing is not mandatory. But if you look at the New Testament you will find several passages that encourage giving to the cause of Christianity. Paul praises the early churches because of their giving (1 Corinthians 9:8-12; 1 Timothy 5:17-18;2 Corinthians 9;Romans 15:26; Philipians 4:15) to fellow churches. As well the Apostles and the early church leaders/pastors had the authority to receive money from the churches in order to support themselves (see 1 Thess 2:5-9; 1 Timothy 5:17,18; 1 Corinthians 9:8-15)

I would like you to pay special attention to the following passage you referred me to:
Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. (1 Corinthians 9:8-15)
What is Paul actually saying here?

Please reread the texts. The texts plainly state that Paul and those who preach the gospel have the authority to receive money from their congregation to support themselves. What is the "carnal" thing that Paul refers to? It is money. If Paul has sown "spiritual" things (which are of far greater value) then is it so wrong or great that they reap "carnal" things (money which is of far less value)?

By denying baptism you show your error in not paying attention to either the Scriptures or the history of Christianity.”

Doctrine should not come from Church history, but the Scriptures.

Church history is found in the Scriptures. If you deny the practices of the early church then you deny a portion of church history. Please understand the value of history for the Christian faith. Our faith is historical and to deny such is to be ignorant of the truth.

“Baptism has been as symbol of the Christian faith since the time of Christ and baptism was a ritual often performed by God's covenant people, Israel, before Christ came.Christ himself was baptized (Matt. 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; John 1:29-34), his disciples baptized people under his administration (John 3:25-30), and he commanded his disciples to baptize converts (Matt. 28:16-20; Mark 16:14-18). In Acts you find that upon believing in Christ, the new converts are baptized (Acts 2:37-41; 8:12,13,16,29-39; 9:10-17; 10:44-48; 16:14,15, 25-34). I will stop here for the sake of time because there are many other instances in the general epistles and Pauline epistles where the practice of baptism within the Church is mentioned.”

I need to give some serious study to the doctrine of baptisms, but in the mean time read the verses I posted to tulc on water baptism. The doctrine of Baptisms is a hugely disputed about topic, so I know we’ll constantly collide in likely confusion if not profoundly knowledgeable in Scripture. I will also send you a study on BAPTISMS from BIBLESTUDYMANUALS.

While I am thankful that you admit that you need further studies, as we all do, I do find it disappointing that you do not deal with the Scriptures presented. Rather than wrestling with Scripture you refer to a manual written by your father's friend. While commentaries and study aids are helpful and have their proper use, I hope that you would first deal with Scripture rather than using manuals as a crutch. It will enrich your faith and understanding of the Word. Too often, especially with the plethora of study bibles today, Christians will read a difficult text and then quickly look at the study notes or a commentary without pondering and thinking through the Scriptures on their own.

“Arminianism (Merging of Semi-pelagianism and the Bible: Its maxim: "It is mine to be willing to believe, and it is the part of God's grace to assist."),

Not all Baptists are Arminian. Though many do fall under that category there are many Calvinistic Baptists and if you research the history of Baptists you will find that the majority of Baptists were Calvinistic in their origins. So you can't lump everyone together.”

… just as you can’t lump Calvinists together. There are many variations of Calvinism. Not every Calvinist follows the Biblical doctrines of the TULIP.

Exactly! My reason for giving the fact that there were many Calvinistic Baptists refutes your assertion that Baptists are Arminian. You can't lump all Baptists together as Arminian. Do you see the point made here and that you agreed with in your quote above? If, in your opinion, you can't lump Calvinists together then how do you, sir, lump all Baptists together? You can't, right

“Legalism can be found in multiple denominations and forms of Christianity around the world. To make the claim that only Baptists are "legalistic" is intellectually dishonest.”

I never said that the majority of Baptist Organisations are the only of legalistic, but so are the Catholic, Pentecostal, Methodist, Lutheran, etc, etc.

And your point is? Again you stated that the reason you left the Baptist denomination was because of legalism. I was merely pointing out that legalism is found in all denominations, not only the Baptists. Maybe I misunderstood your statement, but your original post implies that you left the baptist denomination because they are the only denomination that has some legalistic congregations and members. If that was not the point of your statement then I apologize and misunderstood your point.


I hope that this has clarified some of my points.

Again without being rude, I do think you need to study more carefully the historical baptist faith more carefully. Also I hope you would study more closely the Christian faith. To deny such an important issue such as baptism is in great error, especially in light of the great witness of Scripture testifying to baptism. I will clarify that baptism does not equal salvation, but it has been a means of Christian practice and identity fromt the conception of the early church.


Blessings in your searching of the Scriptures,



Justin

 

[mlqurgw]

Hagios17, I must say that you come across to me as a very young man who is parroting someone he admires.

 

[JacobHall86]

Hey, its a post of his that isnt about Calvinism.

 

[Erinwilcox]

Church membership (The secret knowledge is only obtained by a member... sounds like Gnosticism),
What secret knowledge? Where does the Bible teach that and what church teaches that. . .mine doesn't...secret knowledge--is it some club?

Wrick Warren (Bases theories on Paganism ),
Haven't read the book, but I'm not a fan. . .

Tithing (Why on earth are Baptists preaching about money. Didn't they know that the love of money is the root of all evil. And that is no secret.),
Uh, I think that the Bible talks about tithing. . .anyhow, the pastor has to be supported somehow. . .it's not an issue in my church.

Water Baptism (Should I get circumsised too?)

We are not baptismally regeneristic--Jesus taught baptism and was our example.

Arminianism (Merging of Semi-pelagianism and the Bible: Its maxim: "It is mine to be willing to believe, and it is the part of God's grace to assist."),
Who me?!? An Arminian? I think not--my church is not either.

Legalism (strict adherence to the law??? "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12 ) )
Huh?

 

[theseed]

Jesus said more about money & possesions then he did about heaven and hell combined

 

[JPPT1974]

We can talk about giving to like
Charities and other organizations but
What really matters is that we tithe 10%
Of what God is due!