WWJD

[hedrick]

The OPs current plan could lead to an odd conversation: K, I really hope you have faith in Christ, but if you do I'll have to shun you unless you give up being gay.

I see where a literal reading of Paul would lead to this. There's nothing wrong with your exegesis. But I can't help thinking that sometimes good reasoning leads to results that are obviously harmful. Jesus never let law stand in the way of humanity.

----

There actually were disagreements similar to this one. Eating meat sacrificed to idols was a very hot topic. See e.g. Rev 2:20 (which may well be intended as a reference to Paul or one of his followers). So was the acceptance of Gentiles without circumcising them first. The problem is that Paul was on the liberal side on these issues, so we don't see how he would handle disagreements where he was stricter. The best-known case, 1 Cor 5, is one where there was no disagreement. He says even pagans agreed that the act was wrong. So it's not a good analogy.

 

[Ricky M]

Is he a sinner or believer who refuses correction?
Well, he is not a believer... yet. A believer would not be in this situation. (in my opinion)
He is definitely a sinner, but some sinners are lost and some sinners have been given over to a reprobate mind. Which is he? Only God knows, not even he would know, as the heart is deceptive.
(I don't think asking him will lead to the truth, at least the truth in God's eyes)

If I were you I would let it be obvious that you do not condone his choices, but I would do it ever so lovingly so that IF he does ever need someone to talk to or changes his mind about everything he does not feel condemned/ashamed to come back into the body of Christ. At the same time, as believer, you are the salt of the earth and must uphold the Word of God so not tolerate deviation from God's will for us. Many times throughout the Bible we see men of God who did not sin but because they did not deal sternly with the sin of their children they were punished by God along with their children (like David and the prophet Eli).
It is a hard task but I know God will give you the grace to handle it appropriately. You are in my prayers as is he, God bless you for your concern and effort.

Like I said in the op, he was raised in a Christian home so I can't imagine that he didn't accept Christ at some point in his youth and has since turned away. But I don't know that for sure.

 

[Ricky M]

It also condemns people with tattoos as sinners
and men who are clean shaven
and anyone who gambles in any way
and anyone who reads their daily horoscope
and women who wear pants
and people who remarry after divorce

are you "correcting" anyone in your congregation about these?

Gee, my social calendar is going to get pretty empty

 

[Ricky M]

The OPs current plan could lead to an odd conversation: K, I really hope you have faith in Christ, but if you do I'll have to shun you unless you give up being gay.

I see where a literal reading of Paul would lead to this. There's nothing wrong with your exegesis. But I can't help thinking that sometimes good reasoning leads to results that are obviously harmful. Jesus never let law stand in the way of humanity.

----

There actually were disagreements similar to this one. Eating meat sacrificed to idols was a very hot topic. See e.g. Rev 2:20 (which may well be intended as a reference to Paul or one of his followers). So was the acceptance of Gentiles without circumcising them first. The problem is that Paul was on the liberal side on these issues, so we don't see how he would handle disagreements where he was stricter. The best-known case, 1 Cor 5, is one where there was no disagreement. He says even pagans agreed that the act was wrong. So it's not a good analogy.

Perhaps I should define what I mean about 'shunning'.

I would never presume to throw a rock at the adulterous woman. And I don't mean you stop loving these people. You just don't socialize with them. If they invite you to their home for dinner or to see a movie, you politely decline. If they are at a family gathering, you don't pound them on the head with a Bible, you be gracious and loving but keep your distance. You do want to keep a door ajar, so if they want to talk about it you kindly will. But you let them know, in a kind way, that you just don't agree with the presence of willful sin.

And again, this is only if they claim to be saved.

As for the beard shaving et al, that is certainly a consideration. With the caveat that I don't see that limitation being carried over from the OT to the NT. Jesus and Paul never spoke about people's beards, but they did speak against sexual immorality. And throughout the Bible, God places sexual sins at the top of the 'don't do it' list.

 

[Ronald]

shame on them for speaking the truth.

the founders and leaders have publicly apologized for the harm Exodus has done

“Conversion therapy reinforces internalized homophobia, anxiety, guilt and depression. It leads to self-loathing and emotional and psychological harm when change doesn’t happen. We now stand united in our conviction that conversion therapy is not “therapy,” but is instead both ineffective and harmful. We know first-hand the terrible emotional and spiritual damage it can cause, especially for LGBT youth. We once believed that there was something morally wrong and psychologically ‘broken’ about being LGBT. We know better now.”

I guess the conversion therapy of the Holy Spirit is no match for the LGBT movement. Apologies from God should be in order. We should all pray an ask Him if it is okay to amend scriptures like Rom. 1:26, 27 - to just erase them out of the book. We don't want anyone to experience feelings of anxiety, guilt and depression!

 

[Ricky M]

We should all pray an ask Him if it is okay to amend scriptures like Rom. 1:26, 27 - to just erase them out of the book.

That's been done ... have you seen the MRV?

 

[Quartermaine]

Gee, my social calendar is going to get pretty empty

So are you looking the other way when it comes to these sins? or do you rationalize them away?

 

[Quartermaine]

I guess the conversion therapy of the Holy Spirit is no match for the LGBT movement. Apologies from God should be in order. We should all pray an ask Him if it is okay to amend scriptures like Rom. 1:26, 27 - to just erase them out of the book. We don't want anyone to experience feelings of anxiety, guilt and depression!

Conversion or reparative therapies are no match for the truth.

Why should God apologize? God wasn't the one shilling out snake oil claiming to "cure" homosexuals when in reality it did nothing but cause harm. It was exodus.

 

[Ronald]

Conversion or reparative therapies are no match for the truth.

Why should God apologize? God wasn't the one shilling out snake oil claiming to "cure" homosexuals when in reality it did nothing but cause harm. It was exodus.

I had no idea Exodus Int. was no longer in ministry - my error for suggesting it. I read so many stories in the past of their success - so they are forced to deny any of them? Too much liberal pressure and now of course, society and country have caved with gay marriage being legal. Oh well, America will soon be judged.
God can forgive any sin and cure any illness or addiction. There is always hope.

 

[bekkilyn]

Perhaps I should define what I mean about 'shunning'.

I would never presume to throw a rock at the adulterous woman. And I don't mean you stop loving these people. You just don't socialize with them. If they invite you to their home for dinner or to see a movie, you politely decline. If they are at a family gathering, you don't pound them on the head with a Bible, you be gracious and loving but keep your distance. You do want to keep a door ajar, so if they want to talk about it you kindly will. But you let them know, in a kind way, that you just don't agree with the presence of willful sin.

And again, this is only if they claim to be saved.

Nothing you state here is even remotely loving in actual practice. Not one bit. It's just faking being borderline "nice" whenever you are forced together by family circumstances. Just because you aren't throwing physical rocks doesn't mean you aren't throwing rocks.

 

[Quartermaine]

I had no idea Exodus Int. was no longer in ministry - my error for suggesting it. I read so many stories in the past of their success - so they are forced to deny any of them?

what successes? The simple answer is that there are none. NO one changers orientation.

Too much liberal pressure and now of course, society and country have caved with gay marriage being legal. Oh well, America will soon be judged.

next thing you know interracial couples will start to demand equal rights. oh the horror. Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!?!?!?

God can forgive any sin and cure any illness or addiction.

and being LGBT is neither

There is always hope.

good news for you

 

[Curtis.Hilliker]

Part of my testimony is repenting from sexual sins, including bi sexual stuff. The Holy Spirit of God changed my life and changed me. The Lord rebuke whomever says there is no need to repent of sexual sins.

 

[Ricky M]

Part of my testimony is repenting from sexual sins, including bi sexual stuff. The Holy Spirit of God changed my life and changed me. The Lord rebuke whomever says there is no need to repent of sexual sins.

Sadly, too many are turning from the truth of God because some find offense in it.

Choose today whom you will serve!