WWJD

[Ricky M]

James 4:17If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

 

[bekkilyn]

Because I value others opinions in the effort to be Biblically based and to check myself. And I do appreciate your words and have taken some to heart. But honestly, you've dismissed soooo much of the Bible as not applicable, your understandings come with a huge asterisk attached.

How to Read the Bible in Context | Zondervan Academic

 

[hedrick]

I've heard some churches try to rationalize homosexuality as being ok under the NT. They use the passage about the woman caught in adultery as an example. But what was Jesus' last words to that woman - "everyone else is sinful so go ahead with what you are doing", or "go and sin no more". Just because Jesus gave her a pass on the punishment, doesn't mean He approved of what she was doing.

I think this is a misunderstanding, but it's one that isn't your fault. When talking with conservative Christians, I'm afraid many of us try to avoid controversy by making arguments like this. But as far as I know, churches that accept gays do it because the Bible actually doesn't condemn them, and there are real human costs if Christians condemn them anyway. We don't do it out of some misplaced idea that we're not allowed to make ethical judgements because everyone is a sinner.

I think citing passages about not judging is something someone like me does when talking with someone who thinks God condemns homosexuality, in order to encourage them not to damage others, knowing the raising the actual issue probably is just going to lead to arguments that won't help anyone (and in fact isn't possible under the rules anyway).

Unfortunately avoiding the issue leads to the misunderstanding that people who are "liberal" on this issue don't care about ethics or whether we behave the way Jesus wants. In fact we do care. A lot.

Fortunately, it looks to me like you have a good understanding of what Jesus actually would (and wouldn't) do.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Welcome him as a nephew.

It would be one thing if he was a believer trying to live a life as gay person etc. But from what your saying it seems like he is unchurched and his actual Faith in Christ is questionable. So go with basic Christian love and hospitality, until you find out something that makes that policy obviously not appropriate.

Where is the verses that says Christian love is not an appropriate policy?

 

[GaveMeJoy]

My nephew, K, was raised in a 'Christian home'. He's an only child. Honestly, he's the most honorable and respectful person I know, but he's gay. He and his 'partner' got married last year at city hall, they then threw a reception party for friends and family. I went out of support for his mom, my sister in law, who is horribly caught between her faith and her only child.

My understanding is that as Christians, we are to welcome a sinner, but shun a believer who refuses correction. I don't really know what K's belief in God is, and while I kinda need to know to know how to deal with him, I don't want to ask and give him a chance to verbally deny Christ.

What's the right thing to do here?

The saddest part about this thread is there is a clear formula...

love your nephew >BUT...<

how about love your nephew. I think a better way to look at your situation is imagine this:

your nephew was heterosexual and sexually active.

it’s the same sin. There is nothing inherently more sinful about heterosexual sex outside of marriage than homosexual sex and vice versa.


So imagine how you would hand that situation, and that is how you should handle this situation.


One would hope you would try to grow your relationship with a family member or friend to the point where you both felt comfortable discussing the fact they were having heterosexual sex
Outside of marriage and that the Bible does not allow for this for Christians.
Same thing for a gay person. The only thing distinguishing between these two types of sin is that the church has helped drive millions of sick people farther away from the ultimate physician, Christ

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I think this is a misunderstanding, but it's one that isn't your fault. When talking with conservative Christians, I'm afraid many of us try to avoid controversy by making arguments like this. But as far as I know, churches that accept gays do it because the Bible actually doesn't condemn them, and there are real human costs if Christians condemn them anyway. We don't do it out of some misplaced idea that we're not allowed to make ethical judgements because everyone is a sinner.

I think citing passages about not judging is something someone like me does when talking with someone who thinks God condemns homosexuality, in order to encourage them not to damage others, knowing the raising the actual issue probably is just going to lead to arguments that won't help anyone (and in fact isn't possible under the rules anyway).

Unfortunately avoiding the issue leads to the misunderstanding that people who are "liberal" on this issue don't care about ethics or whether we behave the way Jesus wants. In fact we do care. A lot.

Fortunately, it looks to me like you have a good understanding of what Jesus actually would (and wouldn't) do.

Well Christians should condemn anyone, regardless. The Bible teaches that homosexuality is sin, just like it teaches that heterosexual sex outside of marriage is sin. They are the same, yet for some reason Fox News Christianity isn’t trying to pass legislation banning heterosexual marriage for
Those who are living together. Idk why Christians accept other types of sinners But not gay people , it really blows my mind

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Where is the verses that says Christian love is not an appropriate policy?

I was talking about the giving of hospitality and fellowship. Their are passages that speak against enabling and condoning immoral behavior of people who profess to be believers etc.


1 Corinthians 5:11

11But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.


Matthew 18:15-17 New Living Translation (NLT)
Correcting Another Believer
15 “If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. 16 But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. 17 If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.

 

[Ricky M]

There is nothing inherently more sinful about heterosexual sex outside of marriage than homosexual sex and vice versa.

This is true. They are both sin and should be handled in the same manner.

But I've seen churches that rationalize "heterosexuals are sinning so why shouldn't gays"?

It would seem far too many Christians these days are rationalizing sin to avoid being 'the guy' who offends sinners by pointing sin out.

I think we were warned against this thousands of years ago... Choose today who you will serve.

 

[Miles]

It's his life. If you don't agree with gay marriage, then don't marry somebody who is the same sex as you. That's my approach to this kind of problem. It's harder to actually live a good life than it is to criticize how others live theirs. I'm not suggesting that you condone it, just that it isn't your problem. If you can manage to live up to your own convictions under all circumstances, you'll be in better shape than if you spent that energy on the choices that other people make.

 

[Ricky M]

It's his life. If you don't agree with gay marriage, then don't marry somebody who is the same sex as you. That's my approach to this kind of problem. It's harder to actually live a good life than it is to criticize how others live theirs. I'm not suggesting that you condone it, just that it isn't your problem. If you can manage to live up to your own convictions under all circumstances, you'll be in better shape than if you spent that energy on the choices that other people make.

The Bible gives many instructions on how we should deal with people. I don't believe 'looking the other way' is one of them.

 

[Miles]

The Bible gives many instructions on how we should deal with people. I don't believe 'looking the other way' is one of them.

I'll refer to Luke 6:42

"How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."


I don't know many who are in a clear position to remove the speck from their brother's eye. Such people are few and far between, humble, and have a wealth of relevant personal experience to build on. Thoroughly scrutinizing one's own thoughts and behavior, becoming a better person, isn't the same as looking the other way. It's taking control of the things that you can control (your own choices), and leading by example.

 

[Quartermaine]

The Bible gives many instructions on how we should deal with people. I don't believe 'looking the other way' is one of them.

Do you consider shunning people with tattoos? or who are clean shaven? or love Tuesday night bingo or who work on Sunday? or do any of the above while munching on a bacon cheeseburger?

 

[Ronald]

My nephew, K, was raised in a 'Christian home'. He's an only child. Honestly, he's the most honorable and respectful person I know, but he's gay. He and his 'partner' got married last year at city hall, they then threw a reception party for friends and family. I went out of support for his mom, my sister in law, who is horribly caught between her faith and her only child.

My understanding is that as Christians, we are to welcome a sinner, but shun a believer who refuses correction. I don't really know what K's belief in God is, and while I kinda need to know to know how to deal with him, I don't want to ask and give him a chance to verbally deny Christ.

What's the right thing to do here?

Witness to Him by sharing your faith and testimony - how you came to Christ, how you lived a sinful life in darkness and then was shown the Light. Not too much though and do it as you would with any unbeliever. You give him bits and pieces and see how he responds. If He shows is door is open, then you can continue. If He puts his hand up in your face as says no thank you, I love my life, then that is all you can do. First prepare by praying for him, for God to open his heart, for God to draw him. No one comes to the Father unless He draws them.
Faith comes by the Word. Inbitw him to your church. Give him a Bible. If He truly shows interest, maybe he will read it. He has to be open to Jesus love and desire Jesus before you could even discuss homosexuality. That would come later. Sin is sin and we all have to look in the mirror and face our sin and die to ourselves. Once he realizes he is a sinner, eventually he will come to Romans 1:26, 27 and others that he will bump up against. That will be difficult only if he is first drawn to Christ and wants a relationship. He has to be able to put Christ first before anyone and anything.
He is steeped in his lifestyle, surrounded by a support group of people who have told him that he was "born that way" and "It's not your fault ... you didn't choose this lifestyle or you're just following your natural desires ..." So they believe that and if there is a God, He made him that way.
Finally, the precipice, if he reaches it will be the realization of the truth and that he believed lies and must die to himself.
God made male and female human being and male and female animals, even plants - this was His intention, the natural order of life.

 

[Ricky M]

Do you consider shunning people with tattoos? or who are clean shaven? or love Tuesday night bingo or who work on Sunday? or do any of the above while munching on a bacon cheeseburger?

God said that in the end people would turn away from Him and His truth.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised that so many here have abandoned scripture.

 

[Ricky M]

Let me boil it down to this:

The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin.

The Bible says Christians are to welcome sinners, but shun believers who do not accept correction.

The question then becomes, is K a sinner or a believer who refuses correction?

And I guess the only way to answer that is to ask him.

And if he goes apostate by denying Christ, I guess that's on him, and not on me for giving him the opportunity to do so.

So I will ask him.

 

[the grass of the earth]

Is he a sinner or believer who refuses correction?
Well, he is not a believer... yet. A believer would not be in this situation. (in my opinion)
He is definitely a sinner, but some sinners are lost and some sinners have been given over to a reprobate mind. Which is he? Only God knows, not even he would know, as the heart is deceptive.
(I don't think asking him will lead to the truth, at least the truth in God's eyes)

If I were you I would let it be obvious that you do not condone his choices, but I would do it ever so lovingly so that IF he does ever need someone to talk to or changes his mind about everything he does not feel condemned/ashamed to come back into the body of Christ. At the same time, as believer, you are the salt of the earth and must uphold the Word of God so not tolerate deviation from God's will for us. Many times throughout the Bible we see men of God who did not sin but because they did not deal sternly with the sin of their children they were punished by God along with their children (like David and the prophet Eli).
It is a hard task but I know God will give you the grace to handle it appropriately. You are in my prayers as is he, God bless you for your concern and effort.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

This is true. They are both sin and should be handled in the same manner.

But I've seen churches that rationalize "heterosexuals are sinning so why shouldn't gays"?

It would seem far too many Christians these days are rationalizing sin to avoid being 'the guy' who offends sinners by pointing sin out.

I think we were warned against this thousands of years ago... Choose today who you will serve.

Idk I think this group of “far too many Christians these days” is not as big a group as you think. And many of the people you are referring to aren’t saved anyway.

however, the largeR group of actual Christians that I Observe are the ones who like to put “BUT” in responses when people say to love homosexual people, and that heterosexual sin and homosexual sin are the same...and then talk about the smaller group.

the difference being I don’t believe saying anything about what the Bible says on like Facebook or the internet to the homosexual community or liberal Christians who support the lifestyle will bring gay people to Jesus. However, I think there is opportunity for huge growth among legitimate Christians who just don’t know any gay people and are preoccupied with how unbelieving gays live their lives. The more we can encourage each other to love unbelievers, and the more we can pray for those lost in sin the better.

No gay person was ever brought into the light of Jesus Christ by Christians critiquing their lifestyles independent of authentic love based relationship. Yet that’s the go to strategy for so many believers.

I could be wrong tho!

in Christ

 

[Quartermaine]

Witness to Him by sharing your faith and testimony - how you came to Christ, how you lived a sinful life in darkness and then was shown the Light. Not too much though and do it as you would with any unbeliever. You give him bits and pieces and see how he responds. If He shows is door is open, then you can continue. If He puts his hand up in your face as says no thank you, I love my life, then that is all you can do. First prepare by praying for him, for God to open his heart, for God to draw him. No one comes to the Father unless He draws them.
Faith comes by the Word. Inbitw him to your church. Give him a Bible. If He truly shows interest, maybe he will read it. He has to be open to Jesus love and desire Jesus before you could even discuss homosexuality. That would come later. Sin is sin and we all have to look in the mirror and face our sin and die to ourselves. Once he realizes he is a sinner, eventually he will come to Romans 1:26, 27 and others that he will bump up against. That will be difficult only if he is first drawn to Christ and wants a relationship. He has to be able to put Christ first before anyone and anything.
He is steeped in his lifestyle, surrounded by a support group of people who have told him that he was "born that way" and "It's not your fault ... you didn't choose this lifestyle or you're just following your natural desires ..." So they believe that and if there is a God, He made him that way.

shame on them for speaking the truth.

Finally, the precipice, if he reaches it will be the realization of the truth and that he believed lies and must die to himself.
God made male and female human being and male and female animals, even plants - this was His intention, the natural order of things.
Exodus International helps people come out of their homosexual lifestyles. Some have been in it for many years and now are have heterosexual marriages, kids, and of course Jesus did that.

the founders and leaders have publicly apologized for the harm Exodus has done

“Conversion therapy reinforces internalized homophobia, anxiety, guilt and depression. It leads to self-loathing and emotional and psychological harm when change doesn’t happen. We now stand united in our conviction that conversion therapy is not “therapy,” but is instead both ineffective and harmful. We know first-hand the terrible emotional and spiritual damage it can cause, especially for LGBT youth. We once believed that there was something morally wrong and psychologically ‘broken’ about being LGBT. We know better now.”

 

[Quartermaine]

God said that in the end people would turn away from Him and His truth.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised that so many here have abandoned scripture.

Do you consider shunning people with tattoos? or who are clean shaven? or love Tuesday night bingo or who work on Sunday? or do any of the above while munching on a bacon cheeseburger?

 

[Quartermaine]

Let me boil it down to this:

The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin.

It also condemns people with tattoos as sinners
and men who are clean shaven
and anyone who gambles in any way
and anyone who reads their daily horoscope
and women who wear pants
and people who remarry after divorce

are you "correcting" anyone in your congregation about these?