Wrong Ideas

BobRyan

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What exactly is the rebellion? How is it seen? How is it manifested?

Rebellion against God is seen in sin -- which is "transgression of the Law of God" 1 John 3:4

War, abuse, anger, rage, lying, theft, cheating, deception, ignoring the Bible, refusing to worship God etc.
 
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James_Lai

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Rebellion against God is seen in sin -- which is "transgression of the Law of God" 1 John 3:4

War, abuse, anger, rage, lying, theft, cheating, deception, ignoring the Bible, refusing to worship God etc.

Okay I see.
 
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James_Lai

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Christian faith is to be lived out primarily in with basic practice of charity and prayer ( see Matthew 6:1-15). This is for our basic daily needs and to share our resources to help those in need & in prayer for the well being & for the salvation of others ( 1 Timothy 2:1-3). These are the basic ways of keeping the Lord’s commandments ( see John 14:15-18, Romans 13:8-10).

While this is simple to understand at some basic level, it is not simple to live out. We must trust in the Lord ( see John 16:33) & remember His great commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40, Matthew 7:12, per Matthew 7:1-12 etc.).

If we are blessed to have things to enjoy then we should also give ( Acts of the Apostles 20:34-36). We should not even attempt to impress the Lord and in humility realize He is impressed only by those will give all without pretension ( Mark 12:41-44).

There is an ancient church manual ( called the Didache, about 100 AD) that sums up the basic Gospel preaching. See: Didache

Why is it considered hard to live out?
 
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James_Lai

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Religion is the problem. When we talk about man being involved in some organization, rather than the fellowship we have with other believers, we've opened up the door to the world.

Why is organization bad? Because it runs on money and love of money is the root of all evil? So its foundation is evil? Or you think because there’s power and hierarchy involved? Or peer pressure that people are so susceptible to? Maladaptive herding? Or counter-democratic dictatorial structure? Are all organizations bound to be bad or is there a chance for a pure good one?
 
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Lukaris

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Why is it considered hard to live out?

I guess it comes down to our personal disposition. The Lord said those who are spiritually sick need Him as a physician ( see Mark 2:15-17 etc.) & the times needed for healing vary among us ( I have no idea how long I personally need but God knows).
 
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glorydaz

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Why is organization bad? Because it runs on money and love of money is the root of all evil? So it’s foundation is evil? Or you think because there’s power involved? Or peer pressure that people are so susceptible to? Maladaptive herding? Or counter-democratic dictatorial structure? Are all organizations bound to be bad or is there a chance for a pure good one?

You hit enough of them to prove my point. I don't think there is a chance for a good one this side of heaven, and I'm not sure you'd call that an organization, anyway.
 
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James_Lai

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You hit enough of them to prove my point. I don't think there is a chance for a good one this side of heaven, and I'm not sure you'd call that an organization, anyway.

organization as in organized religion
 
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James_Lai

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I guess it comes down to our personal disposition. The Lord said those who are spiritually sick need Him as a physician ( see Mark 2:15-17 etc.) & the times needed for healing vary among us ( I have no idea how long I personally need but God knows).

Yes but the simple fact of following Jesus is pretty simple I think. As many chose to ignore His clear teaching and inventing a completely different religion calling it Christianity that has very little to do with what Jesus was preaching
 
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Hawkins

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What do you think? Does it make any sense?

I simply think that you missed out on the big picture, you made some valid points though.

The big picture is that humans exclusively rely on human testimonies to get to a truth, especially a historical truth that occurred long ago. God is a result of consistent human testimonies recorded down in
the Bible. Santa Claus on the contrary lacks valid testimonies from eyewitness accounts. You may be right that some people may blindly claim their own religion is the only one true. This however has nothing to do with whether the Bible recorded the truth or not. To put it another way, the Bible represents the only possible way how truth can convey to human beings throughout history, there's not a better way to do so. Whether humans treat their own religion as the only truth is completely irrelevant. This piece of human behavior has nothing to do with the truth of the Bible itself, that is, such a human behavior won't make the Bible more true or less true.

That said. The Church is yet another element of necessity for such a truth to convey, disregarding whether humans view it as an organized religion. You may need to ignore human behavior to a certain extent in order to have a clearer picture on what those elements are necessary in the case that the Bible is true.

Bible is the only truth as a human claim can be ignored, however, you may need to dig out those elements of necessity that can be reasoned to support why it is the only truth. To simply put, it is more or less a fallacy to say that because humans tend to claim their own religion to be true, such that their religions cannot be true or cannot be the only truth.
 
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James_Lai

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I simply think that you missed out on the big picture, you made some valid points though.

The big picture is that humans exclusively rely on human testimonies to get to a truth, especially a historical truth that occurred long ago. God is a result of consistent human testimonies recorded down in
the Bible. Santa Claus on the contrary lacks valid testimonies from eyewitness accounts. You may be right that some people may blindly claim their own religion is the only one true. This however has nothing to do with whether the Bible recorded the truth or not. To put it another way, the Bible represents the only possible way how truth can convey to human beings throughout history, there's not a better way to do so. Whether humans treat their own religion as the only truth is completely irrelevant. This piece of human behavior has nothing to do with the truth of the Bible itself, that is, such a human behavior won't make the Bible more true or less true.

That said. The Church is yet another element of necessity for such a truth to convey, disregarding whether humans view it as an organized religion. You may need to ignore human behavior to a certain extent in order to have a clearer picture on what those elements are necessary in the case that the Bible is true.

Bible is the only truth as a human claim can be ignored, however, you may need to dig out those elements of necessity that can be reasoned to support why it is the only truth. To simply put, it is more or less a fallacy to say that because humans tend to claim their own religion to be true, such that their religions cannot be true or cannot be the only truth.

This is all theoretical, and very understandable. From the practical point of view there are deeply wrong ideas not how we can observe things to happen around us. As for the one and final truth, it’s also falling apart especially when you realize many “truths” are nothing more than tautology or God as the word for the unknown.
 
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angelsaroundme

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Depending on the person, getting drunk might cause them to get into fights, make regrettable romantic decisions, spend a ton of money (certain casinos give free drinks to people as they play the machines), etc.

You are blessed if you avoid sin, it's just not always obvious. It's kind of like dodging bullets without realizing it.
 
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aiki

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Hello. :)
I spend a lot of time among Christians and I notice that they abide in some wrong ideas and it’s hurting them and makes their faith so much less appealing especially to the younger generation who are taught to think independently and free.

Okay...

What I mean is, they have ideas about God, spirituality and the world not how it’s actually observed to work. For whatever reasons. For example they think that if they live holy lives with fewer sins, they get automatic blessing.

But they do - though not, perhaps, the blessings some expect. Chiefly, above all, the Great Blessing of a holy life is deep, rich, joyful daily communion with God. No one living mired in sin can enjoy this greatest of all blessings. From them, God is obscured, hidden behind the barrier of their wickedness. A holy life is a life protected from the death of sin, too. All sin, God warns in His word, produces corruption and death of some kind - death of joy, peace, contentment, inner stability, relationships, physical health and, finally eternal death in hell (Romans 6:23; James 1:14-15; Galatians 6:7-8). Another blessing, then, of a holy life is the absence of the "death" of sin.

Or they think if they pray enough or with the right heart, whatever they ask probably will happen.

Well, this just isn't what the Bible says. There is more to a positively-answered prayer than my will to have it so. But the Bible does say that the prayer of a righteous man avails much. (James 5:16) But "avails much" is not tantamount to "get everything you ask for."

Or that somehow the world around them will align so that because of their faith and kind of special place with God because of Jesus, they’re privileged: protected from sin and evil, have better and clearer understanding of things, all circumstances working for their good etc. This is not at all how things work.

Christians are privileged, though not necessarily in the way you've described here. A holy person does benefit from divine protection - spiritually above all and, in a lesser degree, sometimes physically, too. And the born-again person does have a clearer understanding of spiritual matters than the unregenerate person. This doesn't mean they are smarter, or more academically knowledgeable, but they are wiser than the non-Christian, if they have steeped themselves thoroughly in God's truth and live in accord with it. It is a fool, the Bible declares, who says in his heart, "There is no God." (Psalms 14:1; Psalms 53:1)

When the Bible promises that "all things work together for good," for those who love God (Romans 8:28), the "good" is defined in the very next verse: "For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son." (Romans 8:29) Verse 29 does not, then, promise any and all good to those who love God but ONLY the good of becoming more like Jesus in and through every circumstance.

Maybe I’m not explaining it well right now. It’s hard to pin point. They are full of very wrong ideas. Not that the Bible necessarily explains it that way. Maybe the way organized religion and theology have been developing, and with churches running basically on money, a kind of deceiving teaching that is attractive to people at some level is being offered. There’s something wrong on a fundamental level.

Amen. It is, at least in part, that most Christians are profoundly ignorant of the basic, orthodox doctrines of their own faith, generally unfamiliar with the contents of the Bible, and deeply carnal as a result. In such a condition, false teachers have crowded into the Church, making merchandise of believers, and luring them into the sort of nonsense you have pointed out. Really, these days, most of the Church is occupied by nominal, cultural Christians, who have no real relationship with God at all.

Also there’s a fixation on I’m true and you are not true. Kind of prejudice and arrogance.

Among believers? Yes. But what is a "true Christian" should be ajudicated by Scripture, not mere personal opinion. There is a true Christianity and many false ones. This is stated often in the Bible.

The fact is, nobody understands and knows God,

Is this true? If nobody understands and knows God, how is your statement here correct? It asserts a truth about God, doesn't it? Something that is known and understood about God, which knowledge you have declared is possessed by no one.

The Bible does not reveal to us everything about God, only some things about Him. But what it reveals is sufficient for us to properly know and walk with Him. We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater because God, despite His special revelation of Himself to us in Scripture, remains in many respects mysterious to us.

So claim to absolute and final truth is a little too opinionated, I think.

Well, this is more a cultural statement, a statement of the current prevalent relativistic/postmodernist philosophies dominating western societies. And it is self-refuting to boot. What is the statement "There is no absolute truth" but a statement of absolute truth?
 
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