Wrong Ideas

[James_Lai]

Hello.
I spend a lot of time among Christians and I notice that they abide in some wrong ideas and it’s hurting them and makes their faith so much less appealing especially to the younger generation who are taught to think independently and free.

What I mean is, they have ideas about God, spirituality and the world not how it’s actually observed to work. For whatever reasons. For example they think that if they live holy lives with fewer sins, they get automatic blessing. Or they think if they pray enough or with the right heart, whatever they ask probably will happen. Or that somehow the world around them will align so that because of their faith and kind of special place with God because of Jesus, they’re privileged: protected from sin and evil, have better and clearer understanding of things, all circumstances working for their good etc. This is not at all how things work.

Maybe I’m not explaining it well right now. It’s hard to pin point. They are full of very wrong ideas. Not that the Bible necessarily explains it that way. Maybe the way organized religion and theology have been developing, and with churches running basically on money, a kind of deceiving teaching that is attractive to people at some level is being offered. There’s something wrong on a fundamental level.

Also there’s a fixation on I’m true and you are not true. Kind of prejudice and arrogance. I know in an ideology where you have to proselytize it’s important to “sell” your belief system and one of the strongest selling points is its “veracity”. We are true, so come on join us. The fact is, nobody understands and knows God, and also many ideas can be similar or not even competing, but are artificially shown to be contradictory. We people don’t know a lot more than we know. So claim to absolute and final truth is a little too opinionated, I think.

What do you think? Does it make any sense?

 

[BobRyan]

God is sovereign and all-powerful. He has given the Gospel to mankind so that anyone that wishes to be saved can be saved. He also sends very intelligent and powerful angels to Earth every day.

Choosing to serve God is a great blessing - but this world is in a state of rebellion so simply choosing God in a devil-owned world does not mean that the devil and his legions will give that person a nice "pass".

However no devil is more powerful than the infinitely powerful God - and in the end God will bring all the devils works to nothing.

 

[public hermit]

What I mean is, they have ideas about God, spirituality and the world not how it actually is observed to work. For whatever reasons. For example they think that if they live holy with fewer sins, they expect automatic blessing. Or they think if just they pray enough or with the right heart whatever they ask probably will happen. Or that somehow the world around them will align so that because of their faith and kind of special place with God because of Jesus, they’re privileged: protected from sin and evil, have better and clearer understanding of things etc. This is not at all how things work

I agree. There is nothing in Christian faith that says Christians are somehow exempt from the suffering, sorrow, and death that are common to all humanity. I mean, my goodness, look what happened to Jesus.

I think those of the greatest faith have one ultimate prayer, "Thy will be done." Few Christians, I think, keep that kind of prayer in their hearts. I'm not trying to be mean, but Christians too often treat God like a giant Santa and then struggle when their wish list is not fulfilled. I know how hard it is, trust me, but faith will struggle to survive if it's dependant on having a particular set of circumstances given to us that allow for comfort and leisure. We should all work together to make circumstances that enable comfort and leisure for all people, perhaps, but that's not the ground of peace that surpasses understanding. That kind of peace persist even in difficult circumstances. And, again I know this, such peace is possible and much more desirable than the peace that depends on circumstances.

 

[glorydaz]

Hello.
I spend a lot of time among Christians and I notice that they abide in some wrong ideas and it’s hurting them and makes their faith so much less appealing especially to the younger generation who are taught to think independently and free.

What I mean is, they have ideas about God, spirituality and the world not how it actually is observed to work. For whatever reasons. For example they think that if they live holy with fewer sins, they expect automatic blessing. Or they think if just they pray enough or with the right heart whatever they ask probably will happen. Or that somehow the world around them will align so that because of their faith and kind of special place with God because of Jesus, they’re privileged: protected from sin and evil, have better and clearer understanding of things, circumstances working for their good etc. This is not at all how things work.

Maybe I’m not explaining it well right now. It’s hard to pin point. They are full of very wrong ideas. Not that the Bible necessarily explains it that way. Maybe the way organized religion and theology have been developing, and with churches running basically on money, a kind of deceiving teaching that is attractive to people at some level is being offered. There’s something wrong on a fundamental level.

Also there’s a fixation on I’m true and you are not true. Kind of prejudice and arrogance. I know in an ideology where you have to proselytize it’s important to “sell” your belief system and one of the strongest selling points is its “veracity”. We are true, so come on join us. The fact is nobody understands and knows God, and also many ideas can be similar or not even competing, but are artificially shown to be contradictory. We people don’t know a lot more than we know. So claim to absolute and final truth is a little too opinionated, I think.

What do you think? Does it make any sense?

Sadly, the simple gospel of salvation is rarely preached today, so people think it's too hard to turn to the Lord. They don't know that Jesus did all the work, and they only need to believe in Him and His work on the cross. Salvation is a gift no one can should put off. The time is short.

 

[James_Lai]

I agree. There is nothing in Christian faith that says Christians are somehow exempt from the suffering, sorrow, and death that are common to all humanity. I mean, my goodness, look what happened to Jesus.

I think those of the greatest faith have one ultimate prayer, "Thy will be done." Few Christians, I think, keep that kind of prayer in their hearts. I'm not trying to be mean, but Christians too often treat God like a giant Santa and then struggle when their wish list is not fulfilled. I know how hard it is, trust me, but faith will struggle to survive if it's dependant on having a particular set of circumstances given to us that allow for comfort and leisure. We should all work together to make circumstances that enable comfort and leisure for all people, perhaps, but that's not the ground of peace that surpasses understanding. That kind of peace persist even in difficult circumstances. And, again I know this, such peace is possible and much more desirable than the peace that depends on circumstances.

It’s almost like church became a sort of extension of the comfortable and consumerist living into the spiritual realm. The wind blows where it wants though, as Jesus said… Can’t be contained or tied up to a pole…

What’s His will? It’s a huge and intriguing question for me, maybe #1 question of all time…

 

[James_Lai]

God is sovereign and all-powerful. He has given the Gospel to mankind so that anyone that wishes to be saved can be saved. He also sends very intelligent and powerful angels to Earth every day.

Choosing to serve God is a great blessing - but this world is in a state of rebellion so simply choosing God in a devil-owned world does not mean that the devil and his legions will give that person a nice "pass".

However no devil is more powerful than the infinitely powerful God - and in the end God will bring all the devils works to nothing.

What exactly is the rebellion? How is it seen? How is it manifested?

 

[James_Lai]

Sadly, the simple gospel of salvation is rarely preached today, so people think it's too hard to turn to the Lord. They don't know that Jesus did all the work, and they only need to believe in Him and His work on the cross. Salvation is a gift no one can should put off. The time is short.

Yes, Jesus is being ignored big time… Too bad! His teaching is a gem

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, Jesus is being ignored big time… Too bad! His teaching is a gem

His revelations to the Apostle Paul are almost totally ignored. I think satan has been very active keeping the good news from the people. Not just with distractions, but with false teachings.

 

[James_Lai]

His revelations to the Apostle Paul are almost totally ignored. I think satan has been very active keeping the good news from the people. Not just with distractions, but with false teachings.

Maybe it’s a good thing, Paul seems to have misunderstood Jesus

 

[timf]

Christians, like most people, are often satisfied with only partial understanding

For example they think that if they live holy lives with fewer sins, they get automatic blessing.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Maybe the way organized religion and theology have been developing, and with churches running basically on money, a kind of deceiving teaching that is attractive to people at some level is being offered.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

We are true, so come on join us.

1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Paul specifically cites immaturity as the reason for divisions. Market driven Christianity offers consumer Christians what they want. Those who seek truth are a much smaller percentage.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hello.
I spend a lot of time among Christians and I notice that they abide in some wrong ideas and it’s hurting them and makes their faith so much less appealing especially to the younger generation who are taught to think independently and free.

What I mean is, they have ideas about God, spirituality and the world not how it’s actually observed to work. For whatever reasons. For example they think that if they live holy lives with fewer sins, they get automatic blessing. Or they think if they pray enough or with the right heart, whatever they ask probably will happen. Or that somehow the world around them will align so that because of their faith and kind of special place with God because of Jesus, they’re privileged: protected from sin and evil, have better and clearer understanding of things, all circumstances working for their good etc. This is not at all how things work.

Maybe I’m not explaining it well right now. It’s hard to pin point. They are full of very wrong ideas. Not that the Bible necessarily explains it that way. Maybe the way organized religion and theology have been developing, and with churches running basically on money, a kind of deceiving teaching that is attractive to people at some level is being offered. There’s something wrong on a fundamental level.

Also there’s a fixation on I’m true and you are not true. Kind of prejudice and arrogance. I know in an ideology where you have to proselytize it’s important to “sell” your belief system and one of the strongest selling points is its “veracity”. We are true, so come on join us. The fact is, nobody understands and knows God, and also many ideas can be similar or not even competing, but are artificially shown to be contradictory. We people don’t know a lot more than we know. So claim to absolute and final truth is a little too opinionated, I think.

What do you think? Does it make any sense?

I see zero evidence that the younger generation has been taught to think independently and free. Other than that I would tend to agree that your critique has some merit. It would be helpful if you were a bit more specific as to the very wrong ideas you believe that Christians are full of. As for your perception that Christians seem arrogant in their confidence that their beliefs are correct and those that do not share them are not only wrong but most likely malevolent, that is not really unique to Christians. Nor, unlike many secular ideologies, is that penchant for seeing evil in those that have a different opinion a universal Christian characteristic. There are a number of Christian denomination as well as individual Christians that are unwilling to profess the superiority of a Christian belief system. I have yet to hear a socialist, for instance , contend that there is any equally valid system of economics as socialism envisions nor have I heard those that have a unwavering belief in any of the sciences say that there are equally valid ways of understanding the universe. Everyone tends to think that their way of dealing with reality is most likely the most correct view.

 

[James_Lai]

Christians, like most people, are often satisfied with only partial understanding

For example they think that if they live holy lives with fewer sins, they get automatic blessing.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Maybe the way organized religion and theology have been developing, and with churches running basically on money, a kind of deceiving teaching that is attractive to people at some level is being offered.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

We are true, so come on join us.

1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Paul specifically cites immaturity as the reason for divisions. Market driven Christianity offers consumer Christians what they want. Those who seek truth are a much smaller percentage.

Being market driven is always susceptible to sin I think…

 

[James_Lai]

I see zero evidence that the younger generation has been taught to think independently and free. Other than that I would tend to agree that your critique has some merit. It would be helpful if you were a bit more specific as to the very wrong ideas you believe that Christians are full of. As for your perception that Christians seem arrogant in their confidence that their beliefs are correct and those that do not share them are not only wrong but most likely malevolent, that is not really unique to Christians. Nor, unlike many secular ideologies, is that penchant for seeing evil in those that have a different opinion a universal Christian characteristic. There are a number of Christian denomination as well as individual Christians that are unwilling to profess the superiority of a Christian belief system. I have yet to hear a socialist, for instance , contend that there is any equally valid system of economics as socialism envisions nor have I heard those that have a unwavering belief in any of the sciences say that there are equally valid ways of understanding the universe. Everyone tends to think that their way of dealing with reality is most likely the most correct view.

About younger generation maybe you’re right - at least they’re being taught to chose their own life, to be true to their heart. Which is a good thing. I think nowadays kids tend to chose faith by themselves more than in the past, not just followers of parents.

The very wrong ideas if to sum up, not how God, spirituality and physical world work. Mistaken. I gave some examples. Also it seems there’s a fundamental problem with sincerely, it’s like it became accepted that hypocrisy (maybe not always so obvious straight in the face) is a norm. It’s like the real ideas people hold are different, but for whatever social inertia their adherence to the belief system goes on. Even in cases where it’s not so superficial and nominal, but still it’s double life kind of thing. So it’s declining. Jesus is only left outside desperately knocking...

For example, it shocks me, absolutely shocks me: I go to church and they claim they believe “Unbelievers go to hell for eternal unthinkable torture. Only way to paradise is faith in Jesus. We love all people and wish them nothing but best as we are commanded so”. Then they don’t even talk to neighbours and live mostly for survival, comfort and raising future generations… So their action say loud and clear they don’t actually believe what they say they believe. I am pretty sure if my house caught on fire most of them if not all will strive to do at least something, like phone 911 or maybe even drag me out of the house or bring water garden hose and start fighting fire… So? No sincerely whatsoever. Very very few have sincerely. Why in the world play the faith game then? It puzzles me. Be or don’t be, why all these games?? So strange.

Yes not unique, it’s a humanity or maybe even more so religious problem not specifically Christian problem.

 

[James_Lai]

I agree. There is nothing in Christian faith that says Christians are somehow exempt from the suffering, sorrow, and death that are common to all humanity. I mean, my goodness, look what happened to Jesus.

I think those of the greatest faith have one ultimate prayer, "Thy will be done." Few Christians, I think, keep that kind of prayer in their hearts. I'm not trying to be mean, but Christians too often treat God like a giant Santa and then struggle when their wish list is not fulfilled. I know how hard it is, trust me, but faith will struggle to survive if it's dependant on having a particular set of circumstances given to us that allow for comfort and leisure. We should all work together to make circumstances that enable comfort and leisure for all people, perhaps, but that's not the ground of peace that surpasses understanding. That kind of peace persist even in difficult circumstances. And, again I know this, such peace is possible and much more desirable than the peace that depends on circumstances.

Giant Santa Claus is a great metaphor, exactly how it became.

 

[public hermit]

Giant Santa Claus is a great metaphor, exactly how it became.

Actually, I regret using it because I don't want to hurt anyone who is in difficult circumstances and genuinely struggling, e.g. someone praying for healing and it's not happening.

I think of Xn faith as primarily about inward transformation, a reorientation toward the good. That reorientation has effects in the world, hopefully, but it doesn't guarantee one's own circumstances will always be ideal. I think of Paul. He changed but his own circumstances got worse in many ways. Still, he was at peace; he maintained his orientation toward the good and exhibited high levels of faith, hope, and love. If the Xn proclamation is true, including the work and teachings of Christ, then we should see Christians like that. Of course, progress in faith runs along a spectrum, but we should see some. I think we do, but I also think a lot "cultural Christianity" muddies the waters.

We really need some kind of reformation or revival. I think as numbers begin to decline, quality will go up. I don't see the decline in the US as a bad thing. Besides the fact that the decline is in significant ways our own fault, the inner work that is required is being replaced by an adherence to ideology. We've really lost the script and need to repent by turning toward God and getting serious about the inner work and spiritual discipline, I think. Ironically, if Christians want to change the world we have to focus on ourselves. This outward projection of the problem is counterproductive.

 

[Cute Peonies]

What I mean is, they have ideas about God, spirituality and the world not how it’s actually observed to work. For whatever reasons. For example they think that if they live holy lives with fewer sins, they get automatic blessing. Or they think if they pray enough or with the right heart, whatever they ask probably will happen. Or that somehow the world around them will align so that because of their faith and kind of special place with God because of Jesus, they’re privileged: protected from sin and evil, have better and clearer understanding of things, all circumstances working for their good etc. This is not at all how things work.

Any Christian who thinks like that is living in a fantasy world. They're either young in their faith or they're fooling themselves to feel better. They probably didn't read the Bible too.

 

[James_Lai]

Any Christian who thinks like that is living in a fantasy world. They're either young in their faith or they're fooling themselves to feel better. They probably didn't read the Bible too.

It’s the absolute majority of Christians I know

 

[glorydaz]

Maybe it’s a good thing, Paul seems to have misunderstood Jesus

On the contrary. Jesus taught the law, and it was to fulfill the law and the prophets that He came in the flesh.
It was after He had resurrected from the dead, and ascended into heaven that He appeared to Paul and told him to preach about HIS work on the cross. Paul didn't come up with this stuff on his own. On the contrary.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes not unique, it’s a humanity or maybe even more so religious problem not specifically Christian problem.

Religion is the problem. When we talk about man being involved in some organization, rather than the fellowship we have with other believers, we've opened up the door to the world.

 

[Lukaris]

Hello.
I spend a lot of time among Christians and I notice that they abide in some wrong ideas and it’s hurting them and makes their faith so much less appealing especially to the younger generation who are taught to think independently and free.

What I mean is, they have ideas about God, spirituality and the world not how it’s actually observed to work. For whatever reasons. For example they think that if they live holy lives with fewer sins, they get automatic blessing. Or they think if they pray enough or with the right heart, whatever they ask probably will happen. Or that somehow the world around them will align so that because of their faith and kind of special place with God because of Jesus, they’re privileged: protected from sin and evil, have better and clearer understanding of things, all circumstances working for their good etc. This is not at all how things work.

Maybe I’m not explaining it well right now. It’s hard to pin point. They are full of very wrong ideas. Not that the Bible necessarily explains it that way. Maybe the way organized religion and theology have been developing, and with churches running basically on money, a kind of deceiving teaching that is attractive to people at some level is being offered. There’s something wrong on a fundamental level.

Also there’s a fixation on I’m true and you are not true. Kind of prejudice and arrogance. I know in an ideology where you have to proselytize it’s important to “sell” your belief system and one of the strongest selling points is its “veracity”. We are true, so come on join us. The fact is, nobody understands and knows God, and also many ideas can be similar or not even competing, but are artificially shown to be contradictory. We people don’t know a lot more than we know. So claim to absolute and final truth is a little too opinionated, I think.

What do you think? Does it make any sense?

Christian faith is to be lived out primarily in with basic practice of charity and prayer ( see Matthew 6:1-15). This is for our basic daily needs and to share our resources to help those in need & in prayer for the well being & for the salvation of others ( 1 Timothy 2:1-3). These are the basic ways of keeping the Lord’s commandments ( see John 14:15-18, Romans 13:8-10).

While this is simple to understand at some basic level, it is not simple to live out. We must trust in the Lord ( see John 16:33) & remember His great commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40, Matthew 7:12, per Matthew 7:1-12 etc.).

If we are blessed to have things to enjoy then we should also give ( Acts of the Apostles 20:34-36). We should not even attempt to impress the Lord and in humility realize He is impressed only by those will give all without pretension ( Mark 12:41-44).

There is an ancient church manual ( called the Didache, about 100 AD) that sums up the basic Gospel preaching. See: Didache