Wow, so many adventist topics (question on EGW in here)

[djconklin]

I am not saved by my works, but His work. You are right, the words of the old covenant are not what is written on my heart.

When God said He would write the new covenant on our hearts He was referring to the 10C principle of love. That should be written on your heart.

Lifting up EGW or her works is not lifting up Christ.

Don't lift up her, or her works. Follow her counsel and study the BIBLE! On the other hand, don't run her into the ground either. She was called for a specific purpose. We have no right to put her down and attack her with blatant falsehoods.

 

[Eila]

When God said He would write the new covenant on our hearts He was referring to the 10C principle of love. That should be written on your heart.

I understand you believe that, but the Bible doesn't say that the words of the old covenant were written on our heart.

Don't lift up her, or her works. Follow her counsel and study the BIBLE! On the other hand, don't run her into the ground either. She was called for a specific purpose. We have no right to put her down and attack her with blatant falsehoods.

What blatant falsehoods have been presented here?

 

[djconklin]

I understand you believe that, but the Bible doesn't say that the words of the old covenant were written on our heart.

KJV Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb. 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Originally Posted by djconklin
Don't lift up her, or her works. Follow her counsel and study the BIBLE! On the other hand, don't run her into the ground either. She was called for a specific purpose. We have no right to put her down and attack her with blatant falsehoods.

What blatant falsehoods have been presented here?

I didn't say "here."

 

[Eila]

KJV Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb. 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Yes, it says "law". It doesn't say 10 commandments.

 

[djconklin]

Well, since some of the laws (see http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm) only applied to the priests under the Levitical system why would expect them to be written on our hearts? Others, only applied to slaves. Since you don't have any they are quite irrelevant now aren't they? Other laws were only for those who applied to the judicial system (they won't be applicable until and unless you are in it--no cursing the judge!). Still others only applied to the building of the Temple. Also, we should note that many of those laws were simply exspanions of what the 10C say. Finally, we shouldn't have to note but we'll be very obvious: the laws regarding the sacrifices was rescinded when the Great Sacrifice was made.

The priniciple of the 10C was love: love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as your self. This priniciple of love reflects the character of God in whose image we are made. So, in the New covenant He writes that priniciple of love in our hearts. In word form, that love is expressed in the law (the 10C).

 

[Eila]

Well, since some of the laws (see http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm) only applied to the priests under the Levitical system why would expect them to be written on our hearts? Others, only applied to slaves. Since you don't have any they are quite irrelevant now aren't they? Other laws were only for those who applied to the judicial system (they won't be applicable until and unless you are in it--no cursing the judge!). Still others only applied to the building of the Temple. Also, we should note that many of those laws were simply exspanions of what the 10C say. Finally, we shouldn't have to note but we'll be very obvious: the laws regarding the sacrifices was rescinded when the Great Sacrifice was made.

The priniciple of the 10C was love: love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as your self. This priniciple of love reflects the character of God in whose image we are made. So, in the New covenant He writes that priniciple of love in our hearts. In word form, that love is expressed in the law (the 10C).

According to Jesus in Matthew 5 part of the law cannot be rescinded until all is fulfilled.

"17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. "

What do you do with all the laws that do not fall in the categories you mentioned?

 

[djconklin]

The 10C continue to this day as they are the ONLY law that tells you what sin is. Now if you wish to wade through the 613 "laws" to pick some examples, I'll deal with those as they come up. I do not deal with mere man-made theory, only cold hard facts. It is precisely because the critics do not deal with the actual facts that they fail--see my tag line.

 

[Eila]

The 10C continue to this day as they are the ONLY law that tells you what sin is. Now if you wish to wade through the 613 "laws" to pick some examples, I'll deal with those as they come up. I do not deal with mere man-made theory, only cold hard facts. It is precisely because the critics do not deal with the actual facts that they fail--see my tag line.

Where does the Bible say that the 10C are the ONLY law that tells you what sin is?

How do you get around what Jesus said in Matthew 5? How can only some of the law still be in force?

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
The 10C continue to this day as they are the ONLY law that tells you what sin is. Now if you wish to wade through the 613 "laws" to pick some examples, I'll deal with those as they come up. I do not deal with mere man-made theory, only cold hard facts. It is precisely because the critics do not deal with the actual facts that they fail--see my tag line.

Where does the Bible say that the 10C are the ONLY law that tells you what sin is?

When the Bible says that the transgression of the law is sin; does it refer to the civil laws and the ceremonial laws that aren't in effect anymore?

How do you get around what Jesus said in Matthew 5? How can only some of the law still be in force?

If all 613 laws are still in effect then you are in big trouble because you haven't made your morning and evening sacrifices, right? Have you always abided by laws #572-3 (http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm) as it relates to women while menstrating? If not, why not? All things have not yet been fulfilled so you must obey!

 

[Eila]

When the Bible says that the transgression of the law is sin; does it refer to the civil laws and the ceremonial laws that aren't in effect anymore?

It says law. If you are using the old covenant law as the definition of law in 1 John 3 then you must use the whole thing according to Matthew 5.

If all 613 laws are still in effect then you are in big trouble because you haven't made your morning and evening sacrifices, right? Have you always abided by laws #572-3 (http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm) as it relates to women while menstrating? If not, why not? All things have not yet been fulfilled so you must obey!

Yes, if you don't believe all things were fulfilled, then you must obey all 613 laws according to Matthew 5.

I am not under the old covenant law. It was all fulfilled in Jesus. He met all the righteous requirements of the law. He was without sin and paid the price for the sin of mankind.

 

[djconklin]

When the Bible says that the transgression of the law is sin; does it refer to the civil laws and the ceremonial laws that aren't in effect anymore?

It says law. If you are using the old covenant law as the definition of law in 1 John 3 then you must use the whole thing according to Matthew 5.

Nope; Paul says the law of ordinances that was against us (the ceremonial law) was nailed to the Cross.

 

[Eila]

Nope; Paul says the law of ordinances that was against us (the ceremonial law) was nailed to the Cross.

So what did Jesus mean in Matthew 5 when He said not one portion of the law would pass away until all was fulfilled?

The law against us was the old covenant law. 2 Corinthians 3 even refers to the 10 commandments as the ministry of death.

 

[djconklin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by djconklin
Nope; Paul says the law of ordinances that was against us (the ceremonial law) was nailed to the Cross.

So what did Jesus mean in Matthew 5 when He said not one portion of the law would pass away until all was fulfilled?

The law against us was the old covenant law. 2 Corinthians 3 even refers to the 10 commandments as the ministry of death.

I'd start with the assumption that there are no contradictions in the Bible (God doesn't contradict Himself). And then, I'd assume that quite likely it is one's interpretations that are wrong.

Then I'd compare Col. 2:14 with Deuteronomy 31:26 "Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." Note that both use the word "against" that indicates that they are both talking about the same law.

Weren't you an SDA at one time? For how long?

 

[Eila]

I'd start with the assumption that there are no contradictions in the Bible (God doesn't contradict Himself). And then, I'd assume that quite likely it is one's interpretations that are wrong.

Then I'd compare Col. 2:14 with Deuteronomy 31:26 "Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." Note that both use the word "against" that indicates that they are both talking about the same law.

You are comparing English words when the Bible was not written in English. If you look at the Hebrew word used in Deut 31:26 it

" 05707 `ed {ayd}
contracted from 05749 ; TWOT - 1576b; n m
AV - witness 69; 69
1) witness
1a) witness, testimony, evidence (of things)
1b) witness (of people)
against thee"

If you look at the Greek word in Colossians it is

5227 hupenantios {hoop-en-an-tee'-os}
from 5259 and 1727;; adj
AV - contrary 1, adversary 1; 2
1) opposite to
1a) set over against: meeting one another
2) opposed to, contrary to, an adversary

They do not mean the same thing. Yes, there are no contradictions in God's Word.

 

[djconklin]

Very good you know the diff between English and Hebrew and Greek words. Now get to the meaning. In the LXX (English translation) it says in Deuteronomy 31:26:

Take the book of this law, and ye shall put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God; and it shall be there among you for a testimony (or witness).

Hint, it's not there for them, but against them every time they break the law of God inside the Ark.

Weren't you an SDA at one time? For how long?

 

[Eila]

Very good you know the diff between English and Hebrew and Greek words. Now get to the meaning. In the LXX (English translation) it says in Deuteronomy 31:26:

Take the book of this law, and ye shall put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God; and it shall be there among you for a testimony (or witness).

Hint, it's not there for them, but against them every time they break the law of God inside the Ark.

I think I get what you are saying. Are you saying that the consequences for breaking the 10 commandments went away at the cross?

How would you explain this text in 2 Corinthians 3 where it calls the 10 commandments the "ministry of death" and the "ministry of condemnation"?

"7Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory."

Weren't you an SDA at one time? For how long?

Does it matter?

 

[Cribstyl]

Nope; Paul says the law of ordinances that was against us (the ceremonial law) was nailed to the Cross.

DJ, Are you defining what "LAW" John is talking about in 1John3:4?
If so,
It appears that the context makes in clear that he is NOT talking about specific sin but rather any act of unrighteousness.
This isolated text mouths the words that SDA use to define sin, because it appears to nullify Paul's teaching about "sin before the Law" in Romans 5...So by saying sin is trangression of the Law, they present that there must be law to define sin.

1Jo 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1Jo 3:2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.​

1Jo 3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
(to be pure is to be free from all sin)

1Jo 3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. ​

1Jo 3:5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. ( DJ maybe you can tell us what sin the blood wont take away?)​

1Jo 3:6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. (all sin,)​

1Jo 3:7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. ( the true definiton of sin, unrighteousness)​

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. ( John clearly is not talking specifically about ceromonial law and ordinances)​

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(clearly talking about any unrighteous act that defiles a person1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.)

1Jo 3:10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.​

1Jo 3:11For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.​

Notice that from 1John 1, John is talking about the Law they heard from Jesus at the beginning og His ministry. (The 2Commandments)
.........................................................................

 

[Cribstyl]

Nope; Paul says the law of ordinances that was against us (the ceremonial law) was nailed to the Cross.

PROVE IT DJ...............

Col 2:13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:15[And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Here is Paul's lesson....#1 The fact is DJ, he is addressing Gentiles as if they were never under ceromonial law or ordinances, so how can you say that ceromonial laws were against the gentiles?
#2. The fact that they were dead in their sins and all tresspasses were forgiven" relates to all unrighteous act (SIN) gentiles committed rather than a devided law that SDA argue by isolating texts to establish a false teaching.

#3. The fact that the ten commandments is said to be included in the ordinances reenforces what was blotted out and nailed to the cross.

 

[djconklin]

This isolated text mouths the words that SDA use to define sin, because it appears to nullify Paul's teaching about "sin before the Law" in Romans 5

All texts are ultimately "isolated." I use the whole. You are ignoring Romans 6 & 7.

1Jo 3:5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. ( DJ maybe you can tell us what sin the blood wont take away?)

Did I ever say that there was one?

1Jo 3:7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. ( the true definiton of sin, unrighteousness)

The "true" definition?!?! Which Pope proclaimed that?

 

[Cribstyl]

Col 2:20Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col 2:21(Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


The lesson teaches that if we died with Christ, we're raised up to live in heavenly places with Christ Jesus rather than just as an earth dweller subject Laws made to keep people in line. Being told what to do, what to eat, when to fast.,Thou shall not this, thou shall not that. These law controlls only the flesh and have a form of worship but it's only to keep the flesh on earth in line. The following texts say:

Col 3:1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.​

WHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND FROM THESE TEXTS DJ, IS HOW A CHRISTIAN ARE TAUGHT TO LIVE RIGHTEOUS LIVES, AND HOW TO ABSTAIN FROM SIN WITHOUT BEING GIVEN THE LAW OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (MADE FOR SPECIFICALLY FOR SINNERS1Ti 1:9 )WRITTEN ON OUR HEARTS.​

Col 3:5Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: ​

Col 3:6For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: ​

(SIN WILL BE JUDGED)​

Col 3:7In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. ​

Col 3:8But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. ​

Col 3:9Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; ​

Col 3:10And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all. (NO LONGER "HEAR OH ISRAEL")
Col 3:12Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.
Col 3:14And above all these things [put on] charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Col 3:15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. (THE WORD OF CHRIST RATHER THAN THE COMMENDMENTS OF MOSES)​

Col 3:17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Col 3:18Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. (GOD'S LAW WRITTEN ON OUR HEART ARE NOT 1 SIZE FIT ALL, IT'S A LIVING WORD THAT CONDEMN EVERY UNRIGTEOUS ACT... IT GIVES US POWER TO PUT OFF SIN AND PUT ON RIGHTEOUSNESS.....IT SPEAKS TO WIVES...)
Col 3:19Husbands, love [your] wives, and be not bitter against them. (IT SPEAKS TO HUSBAND....)
Col 3:20Children, obey [your] parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord. (...IT SPEAK TO CHILDREN...)
Col 3:21Fathers, provoke not your children [to anger], lest they be discouraged. (FATHERS)​

Col 3:22Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
(SERVANTS)
Col 3:23And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; (YOU)
Col 3:24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. ​

Col 3:25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons. (SIN WILL BE JUDGED)



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