Wow, so many adventist topics (question on EGW in here)

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Windmill

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Wow, so many topics in here are about SDA's! :p

Hey, uhm, question... what makes one here believe EGW was a prophet/wasn't and can prophets make mistakes? If they can, how can we determine a real prophet from a false prophet and whats the point? Unless what they say is infaliable, how can we trust what extra stuff they say that isn't in the bible? And, for the stuff that can be tested, whats the point in them saying it anyway if its already in the bible?
 

Eila

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Wow, so many topics in here are about SDA's! :p

Hey, uhm, question... what makes one here believe EGW was a prophet/wasn't and can prophets make mistakes? If they can, how can we determine a real prophet from a false prophet and whats the point? Unless what they say is infaliable, how can we trust what extra stuff they say that isn't in the bible? And, for the stuff that can be tested, whats the point in them saying it anyway if its already in the bible?

Prophets can make mistakes, but not when prophesying. Prophets are humans, but when they are saying something like "I was shown", "I saw", or "I have been shown" it should be 100% agreeable with the Bible or it is not from God. When it is not from God it could either be from the devil or from their own mind. If it is from God it will be infallible.

I personally don't believe EGW was a prophet. I know she didn't claim to be a prophet, but she claimed to be more than a prophet. I don't agree with that either. I don't believe she was a prophet because the "I was shown", "I saw" or "I have been shown" statements contradict the Bible numerous times.
 
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Cribstyl

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Wow, so many topics in here are about SDA's! :p

Guess who have started most of these topics?
Guess who asks questions that apostles and bible-prophets have not taught?
Guess who ask questions leading away from sola scripture, where we can find God's answers to a life of godliness?



Windmill said:
Hey, uhm, question... what makes one here believe EGW was a prophet/wasn't and can prophets make mistakes?

Not again, :doh: To compare EGW to Moses or any Old Testament prophets is a questionable dialog. It's says that God prophets forgot to tell the whole story.
I say this because EGW socalled inspired writings, teaches about issues from before creation and to the end of time, to include aliens from other worlds. Why are there more revisions of her writings than any books ever written?
There are many contradictions with EGW and what Jesus said was written by Moses and the prophets.

Example;

Mat 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Was not Christ talking about the books of the OT in which Moses and all the prophets fortold what God revealed to them about Him?
What did Christ mean by saying "it is finished"?
What did Christ mean by saying "it is fulfilled"?
Does SDA believe and teach that Jesus, by say "the law" meant specifically "the ten commandments" rather than Genesis-Deuteronomy, which is also called "the Law"?


If Jesus was bound to fulfil every word that was prophesied by Moses and all the prophets, why should we accepts additional words from another prophet after Christ has fulfilled what was written in the past?
Windmill said:
If they can, how can we determine a real prophet from a false prophet and whats the point?

A test of a prophet is to examine the words of that prophet.
The prophets of Old were chosen by God, they prophesied what God said and would do in their days and yet to come. A false prophet would add to or mislead God's people. We must hold on to God's word.



Windmill said:
Unless what they say is infaliable, how can we trust what extra stuff they say that isn't in the bible?

Modern day prophets should not contradict the past prophets or the apostles through whom the Gospel of the kingdom is preached. Was it not made clear by Jesus Christ that;
Mat 11:13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk 16:16The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Christian are to look for those chosen to preach the gospel. The Law and the Prophets are fulfilled.
Windmill said:
And, for the stuff that can be tested, whats the point in them saying it anyway if its already in the bible?
Consider this, Christ is seated on the throne as minister of the New Covenant in which God has established prophets as secondary to the apostles preaching of the Gospel. Jesus sent Holy Spirit to indwell believers and teach us His Gospel and the power of His resurrection.

God bless
CRIB
 
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Eila

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I forgot to mention another point. I know many people believe she is a prophet based on things like the Bible she held for a long time, etc. However, that should not be our basis for judging. Would SDAs say that if a supernatural sign happened to a non-SDA is of God? We are to judge by the Word alone. If a supernatural sign is of God then every word from the mouth of the prophet in prophesying would be infallible.

Honestly, she said she was shown that the door to salvation was shut (shut door doctrine). I don't see how anyone could trust in any vision based on that.
 
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Windmill

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I forgot to mention another point. I know many people believe she is a prophet based on things like the Bible she held for a long time, etc. However, that should not be our basis for judging. Would SDAs say that if a supernatural sign happened to a non-SDA is of God? We are to judge by the Word alone. If a supernatural sign is of God then every word from the mouth of the prophet in prophesying would be infallible.

Honestly, she said she was shown that the door to salvation was shut (shut door doctrine). I don't see how anyone could trust in any vision based on that.
That was my reasoning for believing too, due to the supernatural occurances she had. However... one can only go off that for so long. If what she said wasn't good, then it is likely that Satan perhaps would've had his hand in her visions.
 
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Windmill

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Guess who have started most of these topics?
Guess who asks questions that apostles and bible-prophets have not taught?
Guess who ask questions leading away from sola scripture, where we can find God's answers to a life of godliness?





Not again, :doh: To compare EGW to Moses or any Old Testament prophets is a questionable dialog. It's says that God prophets forgot to tell the whole story.
I say this because EGW socalled inspired writings, teaches about issues from before creation and to the end of time, to include aliens from other worlds. Why are there more revisions of her writings than any books ever written?
There are many contradictions with EGW and what Jesus said was written by Moses and the prophets.

Example;

Mat 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Was not Christ talking about the books of the OT in which Moses and all the prophets fortold what God revealed to them about Him?
What did Christ mean by saying "it is finished"?
What did Christ mean by saying "it is fulfilled"?
Does SDA believe and teach that Jesus, by say "the law" meant specifically "the ten commandments" rather than Genesis-Deuteronomy, which is also called "the Law"?


If Jesus was bound to fulfil every word that was prophesied by Moses and all the prophets, why should we accepts additional words from another prophet after Christ has fulfilled what was written in the past?


A test of a prophet is to examine the words of that prophet.
The prophets of Old were chosen by God, they prophesied what God said and would do in their days and yet to come. A false prophet would add to or mislead God's people. We must hold on to God's word.





Modern day prophets should not contradict the past prophets or the apostles through whom the Gospel of the kingdom is preached. Was it not made clear by Jesus Christ that;
Mat 11:13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Luk 16:16The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Christian are to look for those chosen to preach the gospel. The Law and the Prophets are fulfilled.

Consider this, Christ is seated on the throne as minister of the New Covenant in which God has established prophets as secondary to the apostles preaching of the Gospel. Jesus sent Holy Spirit to indwell believers and teach us His Gospel and the power of His resurrection.

God bless
CRIB
Hi there. One thing that worries me in your post is you seem to disregard prophets because you think that there are to be no more prophets. John was certainly not the last prophet, and it is made clear that prophesy is one of the spiritual gifts. The early church have it- we can have it now. There ARE to be more prophets, as said by the bible.

[bible]Acts 2:17[/bible]
 
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Eila

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That was my reasoning for believing too, due to the supernatural occurances she had. However... one can only go off that for so long. If what she said wasn't good, then it is likely that Satan perhaps would've had his hand in her visions.

It was the same for me too. From my study into early Adventism I've found that the supernatural things convinced people that her visions were from God. If they had judged the visions by the Word instead of signs then the Adventist church would have a very different history.
 
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Windmill

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I saw that Windmill.............Your Church affiliation changed.
I still consider myself an adventist.. for it is the closest to my beliefs. My current beliefs and question of EGW however mean it is unfair to other adventists I feel for me to be represented as one.
 
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Cribstyl

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Hi there. One thing that worries me in your post is you seem to disregard prophets because you think that there are to be no more prophets. John was certainly not the last prophet, and it is made clear that prophesy is one of the spiritual gifts. The early church have it- we can have it now. There ARE to be more prophets, as said by the bible.

[bible]Acts 2:17[/bible]



Not at all, The history of Christainity is chronologically written in the New Testament. The prophets of the Old Testament had to fortell about Jesus. Does God use the prophets for the same reason today?

The text I posted was to prove that the Gospel of the Kingdom was the word of God that would primarily come from Jesus and His apostles.

Hebrew1 explains;




Hbr 1:1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hbr 1:2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Knowing that Christ came and now sent His apostles rather than prophets to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom does not say that prophet are no longer used by God.
When we examine the words of His apostle we are commanded to follow the apostles doctrine.

Yes, there are prophet today and YES, they teach what the Holy Spirit reveals to them about Jesus and the comming of the Lord.

My post was to show that noone should be compared to the prophets of the Old Testament epecially since even Jesus Christ had to live to fullful their words. They had different annointing and commission than mordern day prophets because Jesus Christ was yet to come.

1Cr 12:28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Where is it writtem or prophesied that a prophet other than Jesus would lead christianity.


The Apostles preaching of the Gospel is first because the gospel is how people are save.
The Jews who denied and rejected Christ continued teaching the Law. Truth be told...SDA preach the law.

This text below reenforces what Jesus meant by
fulfillment of the Law Matt 5:17,18...It was not just the ten commandment.

Lu 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

CRIB
 
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NightEternal

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Windmill, have you ever read the book More Than A Prophet by Graeme Bradford? I would encourage you to have a go at it and see what you think:

http://sdanet.org/atissue/books/bradford/index.htm

There was a time, not long ago, when I was ready to totally scrap EGW as well. This book cleared up some MAJOR misunderstandings I had regarding how inspiration works.
 
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djconklin

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Yep! Most people give up on EGW and the SDA church all because of their over-simplified views of inspiration and what it means to be a "prophet." They chucked the baby with the dirty bath water when they should have hung onto the baby and chucked the dirty water as God intended them to do.
 
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Eila

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Yep! Most people give up on EGW and the SDA church all because of their over-simplified views of inspiration and what it means to be a "prophet." They chucked the baby with the dirty bath water when they should have hung onto the baby and chucked the dirty water as God intended them to do.

So if someone came to your church today and said that God showed them that the time for people to be saved had passed would you chuck out only the bath water? What if something supernatural happened when they were telling you that God had showed them that the time of salvation has passed? Would that make a difference?

What if someone came to your church and said God showed them that the Sabbath was not a requirement for today's Christian? Would you hang onto that baby? What if a supernatural sign happened when they were telling you? Would that make a difference?
 
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Jon0388g

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So if someone came to your church today and said that God showed them that the time for people to be saved had passed would you chuck out only the bath water? What if something supernatural happened when they were telling you that God had showed them that the time of salvation has passed? Would that make a difference?

What if someone came to your church and said God showed them that the Sabbath was not a requirement for today's Christian? Would you hang onto that baby? What if a supernatural sign happened when they were telling you? Would that make a difference?


Lol.

Hi Eila, long time no speak! :)

Can I just clarify: You agree with Windmill that supernatural manifestations are not enough to go by, to discern between truth and error.

Yet somehow, when you were being revealed "the truth," the supernatural aspect made a difference?

Just curious.


Jon

PS: And Windmill, I've already said my bit in the PM. But, just so others can see:


"As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;.... do not give the devil an opportunity." Ephesians 4:14, 27
 
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Eila

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Lol.

Hi Eila, long time no speak! :)

Can I just clarify: You agree with Windmill that supernatural manifestations are not enough to go by, to discern between truth and error.

Yet somehow, when you were being revealed "the truth," the supernatural aspect made a difference?

I'm not sure what you are referring to, maybe you can clarify. Are you referring to the baptism of the Spirit? Nothing supernatural happened when I was baptized in the Spirit. I was baptized in the Spirit after I studied the book of Acts and was convicted on the issue by the Holy Spirit.

Also, supernatural happenings that I experienced later on were a work of God changing me. Supernatural things should never cause us to believe in the messenger. They should not support the messenger's message. Supernatural things from God will always lift up Christ and Christ alone. The supernatural incidents related to EGW have been and still are used to show that her message was from God. They lift up EGW, not Christ.
 
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Sophia7

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Prophets can make mistakes, but not when prophesying. Prophets are humans, but when they are saying something like "I was shown", "I saw", or "I have been shown" it should be 100% agreeable with the Bible or it is not from God. When it is not from God it could either be from the devil or from their own mind. If it is from God it will be infallible.

I personally don't believe EGW was a prophet. I know she didn't claim to be a prophet, but she claimed to be more than a prophet. I don't agree with that either. I don't believe she was a prophet because the "I was shown", "I saw" or "I have been shown" statements contradict the Bible numerous times.

I forgot to mention another point. I know many people believe she is a prophet based on things like the Bible she held for a long time, etc. However, that should not be our basis for judging. Would SDAs say that if a supernatural sign happened to a non-SDA is of God? We are to judge by the Word alone. If a supernatural sign is of God then every word from the mouth of the prophet in prophesying would be infallible.

Honestly, she said she was shown that the door to salvation was shut (shut door doctrine). I don't see how anyone could trust in any vision based on that.

It was the same for me too. From my study into early Adventism I've found that the supernatural things convinced people that her visions were from God. If they had judged the visions by the Word instead of signs then the Adventist church would have a very different history.

I agree.
 
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Jimlarmore

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I'm not sure what you are referring to, maybe you can clarify. Are you referring to the baptism of the Spirit? Nothing supernatural happened when I was baptized in the Spirit. I was baptized in the Spirit after I studied the book of Acts and was convicted on the issue by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will not direct you to do and believe things that are contrary to God's Holy Word.

Also, supernatural happenings that I experienced later on were a work of God changing me.

Changing you to believe it's ok to break God's Holy Law with impunity, or that it was somehow changed with the new covenant , thinking the grace of Christ allows us to do it, and still be saved?

Supernatural things should never cause us to believe in the messenger. They should not support the messenger's message. Supernatural things from God will always lift up Christ and Christ alone. The supernatural incidents related to EGW have been and still are used to show that her message was from God. They lift up EGW, not Christ.

As an adventist I'll admit there are a few who lift up the woman instead of her works. On the other hand the majority I have studied with lift up her works and not her per se'. I never take her writings over the Bible and she even advised us not to do that. As far as her being an inspired prophet of God I invite anyone to read her works with an open mind and see for yourself. Don't take the word of her skeptics as truth. Find out for yourself.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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Eila

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The Holy Spirit will not direct you to do and believe things that are contrary to God's Holy Word.

I agree


Changing you to believe it's ok to break God's Holy Law with impunity, or that it was somehow changed with the new covenant , thinking the grace of Christ allows us to do it, and still be saved?

That wasn't the change I was talking about. My views on the old covenant and the new covenant came about after much Bible study.

I am not saved by my works, but His work. You are right, the words of the old covenant are not what is written on my heart.

As an adventist I'll admit there are a few who lift up the woman instead of her works. On the other hand the majority I have studied with lift up her works and not her per se'. I never take her writings over the Bible and she even advised us not to do that. As far as her being an inspired prophet of God I invite anyone to read her works with an open mind and see for yourself. Don't take the word of her skeptics as truth. Find out for yourself.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Lifting up EGW or her works is not lifting up Christ. If I lift up Danny Shelton or 3ABN am I lifting up Christ? If I lift up Mark Finley or It is Written am I lifting up Christ?

I was taught that EGW said that if she contradicted the Bible to go with the Bible - so that is what I did.
 
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