Would you...

[ivanisavich]

Thanks! I'm definitely having a grand time

 

[invisiblebabe]

Well, I married one.

I will say though that for many women, the issue about this is not forgiveness at all... but it is a deeply emotional thing that involves intimacy and uniqueness. A person who cannot deal with having waited when the other person did not, is no less spiritual or forgiving than one who can accept a non virgin. People are built differently emotionally , and some can handle more than others.

In the end though, I have been very emotionally intimate with many guys, and I think that in ways can be just as difficult to deal with as the physical. And, I believe that true intimacy and sin cannot coexist, so any premarital sex is really counterfeit intimacy...

 

[invisiblebabe]

By posting this question I did not mean to stir up any problems or anger, I just simple wanted some encouragement to know that I am not so called "damaged goods" as I tend to look at myself...I know that I am forgiven but there are consequences down the line, but does that make me any less Christian??? I would hope not...

Someone said that by marrying a virgin it would side step future martial problems...and what would those be?? Cheating?? What I have to say to that is I have NEVER cheating or strayed from any relationship I have ever been in...I am loyal almost to a fault at times and to say that someone who has previously had sex would be tempted is crazy...people change they become better people and their past should not be held agaisnt them!!

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs on this topic, but don't make others feel bad about their opinion....I know that not everyone would want to date someone like me, but I would hope there are guys out there who can look past my sexual past and see me for who I am...a girl who has fallen short but wants to stand up strong again!!

You have fully repented, so God has fully restored you spiritually. You are now spiritually pure.

There are issues that come with marrying a non-virgin, when you yourself are a virgin. I can say that firsthand. For me the issues had mostly to do with uniqueness (how can I feel special and unique, if the things we do aren't unique for him?) that sort of thing. But it's different with everyone. Others may have a harder time with trust issues.

And, everyone brings at least some baggage with them... the only difference is the type of baggage and how much. For example, there are also issues that come from marrying someone who is bipolar and has been abused in relationships (ie, me), and my husband has had to deal with that on my end.

If a guy rejects you because of your past, it says more about him than about you... and basically all it says is that he is either very emotionally fragile (which you can't hold against him) or very legalistic and judgmental (which God sure doesn't like).

Blessings and love in Christ,
Kayli

 

[Shannonkish]

Kayli... thank you for your balanced response and your willingness to hear the other sides pov.

 

[Silver Speak]

Yes, I would. It depends on what his view on sex is/was: if he slept around before I don't think I could trust him 'cause that kind of pattern is hard to break.

 

[Sketcher]

One is that the forgiveness of a sin does not automatically remove the consequences of that sin. If I were to give in to pressure from my peers, get drunk, get in a car crash, and kill someone, I could still be forgiven by God if I repented and asked for that forgiveness. But that wouldn't bring back the person I had killed. Similarly, there are things about sex before marriage that can't be undone even if it has been completely forgiven.

The difference is, however, that in choosing not to date someone who has had sex, you are choosing to give a consequence to the person... not God.

That's not giving the consequence to God, that's taking it on yourself. Because you will have to deal with them. You may well give the consequence that you've taken on to God afterwards, or outside of a relationship you can pray for the person's healing. But short of a message direct from God saying that He will bless such a relationship as if she saved herself, I'm not going to assume it. Because assuming God's will based on anything beyond Biblical promises is foolish. I've burned myself by doing that once and don't care to put words in God's mouth ever again.

This brings me to the second problem, which is that not all sins are equal in their consequences, or, at least in some sense, in their seriousness. I wouldn't say that sex before marriage is anywhere near as serious as killing someone while driving drunk, but I think it is more serious than, say, having impure thoughts. Any sin needs to be repented of and dealt with, but they're not all completely equal as far as how much work needs to be done to deal with them.

Scriptural references, please. A sin is a sin is a sin. According to the Bible, in Matt 5:28, simply looking at a man/woman lustfully incites you for commiting adultery. James 4:2 asserts that Lust and Murder are no different in terms of sin. Matt 5:21-22 equates anger with murder.

Sin is sin. No one sin breaks the heart of God more than the other. If I lust after a man, I might as well be having sex with him before marriage... because sin is sin.

In the sense that all sins are equally damnable, yes. In the sense that sin begins in your heart, yes. But since when has a mere thought of mine actually gotten a girl pregnant? Since when could a mere thought create an emotional bond between myself and the girl? I might have a thing for her, but she doesn't even need to know I exist! She won't be distraught if I move on to someone else or give it up. She is not hurt by my thought unless I carry it out.

Sexual consequences involve not just one person, but all parties involved. The consequences of a fantasy alone will involve only one person, you. And they probably won't be as severe as actually sleeping with the person. I'm sure some of the people who have stepped over the line will be able to confirm this.

I am in no way saying that fantasy is excusable or "better." What I am saying is that the notion of post-forgiveness freedom from consequences is ridiculous. You can commit a crime and be forgiven, but you'll still have a record. You can murder someone and be forgiven, but that doesn't mean the victim will rise from the dead when you come to know Jesus. And the beauty of grace is that the consequences of your past sins don't have to be fixed for God to love you. Someone can destroy their lives with sin, and God will forgive them and even help them to rebuild. But He doesn't promise when, where or how. Sometimes he lets us have a thorn in our flesh. And who are we to delude ourselves into thinking He's going to fix something that He has no intention of fixing? I did that once, count on a promise that He never really promised. And when He didn't come through, that hurt. I won't stand by and watch any believer fall into the trap I fell into.

If God decides to fix the consequences of all your past sins, and He may, you are truly blessed. But He never does that 100% of the time. Do not confuse this with not recieving love or forgiveness, because He will forgive you and love you 100% of the time. That at least is Biblical.

 

[ivanisavich]

What I am saying is that the notion of post-forgiveness freedom from consequences is ridiculous. You can commit a crime and be forgiven, but you'll still have a record.

Hi-five plus amen

 

[Sketcher]

[/font]

Hi-five plus amen

I've been in your spot more than once in the Virginity Wars.

Judged for thinking virginity is valuble. Who'da thunk it? This really ought to be treated as a Romans 14 issue.

 

[ivanisavich]

Judged for thinking virginity is valuble. Who'da thunk it?

I know eh ....ah well. I guess we'll just have to live our lives being terribly "judgemental", as many people who've posted in this thread would suggest.

 

[Sketcher]

[/font]

I know eh ....ah well. I guess we'll just have to live our lives being terribly "judgemental," as many people who've posted in this thread would suggest.

Ah yes.

It is NOT a forgiveness issue.

 

[ivanisavich]

Can I get another amen? hehe

[edited...thanks twisted....I'm still getting used to forum policies and etiquette ]

 

[Sketcher]

Can I get another amen? hehe

I'll PM you.

 

[renaistre]

...In the sense that all sins are equally damnable, yes. In the sense that sin begins in your heart, yes. But since when has a mere thought of mine actually gotten a girl pregnant? Since when could a mere thought create an emotional bond between myself and the girl? I might have a thing for her, but she doesn't even need to know I exist! She won't be distraught if I move on to someone else or give it up. She is not hurt by my thought unless I carry it out...

...If God decides to fix the consequences of all your past sins, and He may, you are truly blessed. But He never does that 100% of the time. Do not confuse this with not receiving love or forgiveness, because He will forgive you and love you 100% of the time. That at least is Biblical...

twistedsketch, I appreciate your defense of my position, because you said it probably better than I could have myself. I especially agree with the two paragraphs I quoted.

Look, the issue here isn't a person's value, a person's state of forgiveness, or anything like that. God forgives, loves, and accepts no matter what any Christian might have done, or will do, for that matter. We should do the same. But that doesn't have anything to do with my position.

In answer to your question about someone who was a habitual liar before being saved, in some cases, yes, it still would cause me to hesitate before entering an intimate relationship. I would advise my sisters to hesitate before entering into an intimate relationship with a guy who had a history of domestic abuse before he was saved. He might be completely changed, but to ignore serious issues like this completely would be foolish. However, none of these things would cause me to hesitate to practice Christian love and forgiveness toward that person.

Here's an other slightly different example of what I'm trying to say. Suppose you have a young Christian couple with two kids. The father totally flakes out and leaves the family with no warning. So now you have a single Christian woman with two kids who might want to remarry, and mind you, she is not at fault for her situation in the least.

I would admire the man who would take on the difficulties of marrying this woman. Think about it: no time together as a couple before kids, trying to get the children to accept a new father, having to endure the questions and possibly the scorn of the people who don't understand the situation. The list goes on. Not every man is strong enough to deal with this stuff. But remember, forgiveness isn't an issue in this case because there isn't anything to forgive. Telling a man who isn't up to the challenge that he shouldn't worry about it wouldn't be fair to either party. I'll admit that there isn't a perfect parallel between this story and the topic, but I think some of the same principles apply.

 

[Sketcher]

twistedsketch, I appreciate your defense of my position, because you said it probably better than I could have myself. I especially agree with the two paragraphs I quoted.

You're welcome.

Look, the issue here isn't a person's value, a person's state of forgiveness, or anything like that. God forgives, loves, and accepts no matter what any Christian might have done, or will do, for that matter. We should do the same. But that doesn't have anything to do with my position.

Exactly.

 

[plum]

MOD HAT ON
This thread has gotten out of hand.
Sarcastic remarks, debating, assumptions about someone else's beliefs... These are all inappropriate behavior. Debating is not acceptable or profitable in this forum, and I am asking that from this moment on NO argumentative, defensive, sarcastic, and otherwise trouble-making posts be made. If they are, action will be taken.
We can discuss a topic without it becoming hurtful. We can discuss a topic to help the OP with her request for advice and input. When we take it upon ourselves to prove someone else wrong, it becomes unfair to the OP, no fun for the rest of the members, and it breaks the lines of fellowship we so dearly want to have exist here.

You all are equally wonderful people. Please respect one another and allow each other the right to have opinions that differ from your own.

Thank you. Please continue in peace or the thread will be closed.
Cleanup may follow the posting of this message.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[ivanisavich]

Ok ...thanks for the warning/reminder!

 

[Shannonkish]

Thank you MissJu! I tried to end the debate...

 

[Tink]

Past sexual relations wouldn't bother me at all on a regular person-to-person level...in fact it would never even cross my mind to think about them when with a member of the opposite sex that I'm not romantically involved with.
QUOTE]

I'd be pretty reluctant to discuss my sexual history with anyone that I wasn't already romantically involved with (aside from other Christians on this board, for some reason ). What if you fall in love with someone who chooses to wait until after you're both "in love" to reveal all of her sexual past to you? Will you then break up with her? Or will one of your first questions to someone you're interested in be "are you a virgin?" Please be aware that I'm not trying to attack you or anything of the sort. It's just something I was curious about.

In His love,
Tink

 

[septemberskies]

Past sexual relations wouldn't bother me at all on a regular person-to-person level...in fact it would never even cross my mind to think about them when with a member of the opposite sex that I'm not romantically involved with.
QUOTE]

I'd be pretty reluctant to discuss my sexual history with anyone that I wasn't already romantically involved with (aside from other Christians on this board, for some reason ). What if you fall in love with someone who chooses to wait until after you're both "in love" to reveal all of her sexual past to you? Will you then break up with her? Or will one of your first questions to someone you're interested in be "are you a virgin?" Please be aware that I'm not trying to attack you or anything of the sort. It's just something I was curious about.

In His love,
Tink

Great question Tink... too bad i can't rep you again.

 

[Tink]

Great question Tink... too bad i can't rep you again.

Thanks for the previous rep, and for this comment, friend!

In His love,
Tink