Would you support a 'Christian Zone'?

[Paradoxum]

No, I know they would make a mess of it. The only question is how bad a mess and if it would mainly be humorous or tragic.

Do remember my post 4, especially the quote at the end. This if it happened would be a filtered Christian Group and a lot of the good would have been filtered out.

If afterwards something evil occurred and the remaining Christians were gathered up and put in a different area I would expect they would still have problems, but it might just work out better than usual for human beings.

Fair enough.

 

[Kenja824]

No, not fair enough.

I once had a roommate who was black. One Friday, in a rush, I accidentally left my check on my dresser and went away for the weekend. When I got back, my check was gone. He came to me and admitted he forged my signature and then signed his under it and cashed it at a store. He asked me to forgive him. Rent was going to be due, so I told him that I would forgive him, but he was going to have to find a way to pay the rent. The next night I came home from work and his stuff was gone.

If I was to say all, or even most black men were thieves, would that be right or wrong of me? Most people would say it is wrong because I would be lumping all of the black men into a group over what one did.

I had a girlfriend once who cheated on me. She was the one feeling guilty and confessed to me. I do believe in forgiveness and as much as that hurt, I forgave her. Until she did it a second time. But if I was to state that women in general were cheating wh@%es, that would be wrong of me to generalize them over what one did.

Yet so many people find it is completely okay to say Christians are self-righteous, greedy, judgmental, etc... and a community of them would simply filter out the good and it would be better off for human beings? You may believe that is true, but the fact is, because you had some bad experience with some pseudo-Christian or have read history where religious idiots did horrible things in the name of God, that must be how all Christians are. The truth is you have absolutely no idea what a true Christian is!

I have known many good Christians who would simply blow your mind how good of people they are if you knew them. I have also known several pseudo-Christians who just because they go to Church they think they know it all and are better than others.

Churches that get millions or billions off the people fall into one of two categories. Not one. The one you recognize is greedy. This is a bad church and the pastor is not of God just because he says he is. The other is it happens to be a great Church that keeps its eyes on God, and because of that, people flock to it. Because Christians believe in the Church and are a giving lot in general, the Church prospers.

To be Christian is to strive to be Christ-like. To love everyone, not persecute. To help others. To be giving and generous, not greedy. To forgive, not be judgmental.

The problem is, the world has this image that Christians have to be perfect or they are not Christians. That if they sin, they are nothing but hypocrites. The truth is, that is so far from the truth it is almost laughable. Christians are not better than anyone else. We are human and therefore we are prone to sin. We have problems just like everyone else. Some have addictions. Some have hot tempers. Some have compulsive needs to lie, steal, smoke, drink, swear. You name a problem, there is a good Christian out there somewhere with that problem. Being a Christian does not mean we do not sin. It means we STRIVE not to sin. It also means that wheh we do sin, we feel bad for it in our hearts. A true Christian feels terrible when they sin because they have let God down. But best of all, a real Christian will also be forgiven for his sins when he asks God for that forgiveness.

The truth is, it is a harder life to be a good Christian than to not be one. To put it simple, if you are not a Christian, Satan doesnt give a crap about ya! He already has you! lol

No this is not getting into the preaching thing. I am not a preacher. I am just trying to point out how badly some of you misunderstand what a true Christian is and how you hate Christians so much because of what some others did because they said they are Christians. Well I can say I am a donkey all I want, and sometimes I will admit my wife thinks I am one in a different sense, but however much I say it, doesnt mean its true.

Middle Eastern men killed over 2000 people on 9/11 and most of us dont blame the entire people for what a few radical terrorists did. But for some reason some people do evil in the name of God and its okay to think that is what Christianity is.

The funny thing is you will persecute the Christians for being judgmental but you dont see anything wrong with coming to a Christian forum and being judgmental yourself. :o) And to make it worse, you judge Christianity for being a certain way when you have no idea what real Christianity is.

As for the Christian Zone? IF this zone was filled with true Christians, it would flourish. But if you fill it with pseudo-Christians, the type you are familiar with, then it would do exactly as you thought. Personally I would love to have a very Christian oriented town to go home to every night after working All day in this messed up world. There would be a lot less crime and the neighbors would be a lot more friendly.

 

[ForJesusChrist]

Sounds like a decent idea, but I only listen to God. Who's to say whoever lays down the law will do it correctly.

Also, you could just wait for heaven, and it will be better than any Christian zone would ever be.

God Bless

P.S Welcome to the forums.

 

[Paradoxum]

No, not fair enough.

That was a long post.

I agree; not all Christians are bad, self-righteous people. My experience is that most are nice, kind people.

I know that Christians sin sometimes, I was a Christian. The one's I'd call hypocrites are those who are judgemental and oppressive. For example, if a Christian says they are for 'family values' (whatever that means), are against gay marriage, and then go and cheat on their partner.

Obviously cheating is wrong anyway, but the hypocrisy makes it worse.

Middle Eastern men killed over 2000 people on 9/11 and most of us dont blame the entire people for what a few radical terrorists did. But for some reason some people do evil in the name of God and its okay to think that is what Christianity is.

I'd say that religion based on obedience to authority (whether a book or tradition) tend to make people do stupid things. Of course religious people can be good people, or very good people, but the religion can also tend to make them hold immoral opinions on certain issues.

The funny thing is you will persecute the Christians for being judgmental but you dont see anything wrong with coming to a Christian forum and being judgmental yourself. :o) And to make it worse, you judge Christianity for being a certain way when you have no idea what real Christianity is.

Did I say anything about being judgemental in general? I said about it in regards to hypocrisy above. If I say that cheating is wrong, but I then cheat, it would make sense to say I'm a hypocrite.

You talk about persecution, but are Christians being fed to lions? I wouldn't say disagreement, or even insults, are persecution. Persecution would be banning your religion.

By the way, I do know what Christianity is. I was a Christian for most of my life, and I was happy being a Christian. Though, it isn't as if all Christians can agree won what true Christianity is.

There would be a lot less crime and the neighbors would be a lot more friendly.

Sure, but you could probably say the same of a humanist town. If people were kind, considerate, and respectful, the world would be better, regardless of religion.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If we isolate ourselves from sinful society how would we minister to them? I can't imagine leaving my flock to the wolves. No, I'm not an ordained minister of any sort, but I do have a ministry, my job.

I was in the army in Korea back in the early '60's. Every barracks had a Korean houseboy or two to do the cleaning and other chores. We sometimes went into the field for several days for training and maneuvers. Our houseboy, Yum, left his home and family and remained in our barracks while we were gone, to protect our stuff from being stolen by the other houseboys. His job was his ministry. He was a wonderful man and when my group left for the states we made sure he was well rewarded for his diligence, honesty, and his genuine care for us.

 

[brewmama]

So do you not think the Puritans had a successful community? The Amish? The Mormons?

 

[keith99]

No, not fair enough.

I once had a roommate who was black. One Friday, in a rush, I accidentally left my check on my dresser and went away for the weekend. When I got back, my check was gone. He came to me and admitted he forged my signature and then signed his under it and cashed it at a store. He asked me to forgive him. Rent was going to be due, so I told him that I would forgive him, but he was going to have to find a way to pay the rent. The next night I came home from work and his stuff was gone.

If I was to say all, or even most black men were thieves, would that be right or wrong of me? Most people would say it is wrong because I would be lumping all of the black men into a group over what one did.

I had a girlfriend once who cheated on me. She was the one feeling guilty and confessed to me. I do believe in forgiveness and as much as that hurt, I forgave her. Until she did it a second time. But if I was to state that women in general were cheating wh@%es, that would be wrong of me to generalize them over what one did.

Yet so many people find it is completely okay to say Christians are self-righteous, greedy, judgmental, etc... and a community of them would simply filter out the good and it would be better off for human beings? You may believe that is true, but the fact is, because you had some bad experience with some pseudo-Christian or have read history where religious idiots did horrible things in the name of God, that must be how all Christians are. The truth is you have absolutely no idea what a true Christian is!

I have known many good Christians who would simply blow your mind how good of people they are if you knew them. I have also known several pseudo-Christians who just because they go to Church they think they know it all and are better than others.

Churches that get millions or billions off the people fall into one of two categories. Not one. The one you recognize is greedy. This is a bad church and the pastor is not of God just because he says he is. The other is it happens to be a great Church that keeps its eyes on God, and because of that, people flock to it. Because Christians believe in the Church and are a giving lot in general, the Church prospers.

To be Christian is to strive to be Christ-like. To love everyone, not persecute. To help others. To be giving and generous, not greedy. To forgive, not be judgmental.

The problem is, the world has this image that Christians have to be perfect or they are not Christians. That if they sin, they are nothing but hypocrites. The truth is, that is so far from the truth it is almost laughable. Christians are not better than anyone else. We are human and therefore we are prone to sin. We have problems just like everyone else. Some have addictions. Some have hot tempers. Some have compulsive needs to lie, steal, smoke, drink, swear. You name a problem, there is a good Christian out there somewhere with that problem. Being a Christian does not mean we do not sin. It means we STRIVE not to sin. It also means that wheh we do sin, we feel bad for it in our hearts. A true Christian feels terrible when they sin because they have let God down. But best of all, a real Christian will also be forgiven for his sins when he asks God for that forgiveness.

The truth is, it is a harder life to be a good Christian than to not be one. To put it simple, if you are not a Christian, Satan doesnt give a crap about ya! He already has you! lol

No this is not getting into the preaching thing. I am not a preacher. I am just trying to point out how badly some of you misunderstand what a true Christian is and how you hate Christians so much because of what some others did because they said they are Christians. Well I can say I am a donkey all I want, and sometimes I will admit my wife thinks I am one in a different sense, but however much I say it, doesnt mean its true.

Middle Eastern men killed over 2000 people on 9/11 and most of us dont blame the entire people for what a few radical terrorists did. But for some reason some people do evil in the name of God and its okay to think that is what Christianity is.

The funny thing is you will persecute the Christians for being judgmental but you dont see anything wrong with coming to a Christian forum and being judgmental yourself. :o) And to make it worse, you judge Christianity for being a certain way when you have no idea what real Christianity is.

As for the Christian Zone? IF this zone was filled with true Christians, it would flourish. But if you fill it with pseudo-Christians, the type you are familiar with, then it would do exactly as you thought. Personally I would love to have a very Christian oriented town to go home to every night after working All day in this messed up world. There would be a lot less crime and the neighbors would be a lot more friendly.

Did you bother to go back and read post #4?

Did you notice I said quite the opposite about those Christians who would choose to remain outside such a zone?

I do not hate Christians. I just do not suffer fools easily, especially fools who claim to be wise.

 

[bhsmte]

Let's start with the premise that the Bible contains instruction from God how people should behave in a Godly society. Secular laws contain instruction about how people should behave in modern society. Many Christians believe that laws should reflect, to an extent, Biblical teaching because a) such teaching is better for society and b) it allows them to practice and share their faith without persecution. On the other hand, secular society, and some Christians, believe that the law should reflect the current morals of society, and that a religious group shouldn't impose their beliefs on others.

The dynamic of these counter opinions has led to an ongoing struggle between the two camps, and a situation where many Christians are made to feel they are being unreasonable, and are even attacked, for suggesting certain aspects of our faith should be reflected in legislation. In some countries, in Europe in particular, governments are even creating legislation that could make some aspects of living a Christian life, Biblical parenting for example, open to prosecution.

So let's run this thought experiment (a thought experiment for now at least):

Let's say we have a zone, a bare plot of land where no one currently lives. The intention would be to develop this empty land so it will have houses and businesses etc., but even before that happens it will have political autonomy: the developers/managers could make their own rules before they even start.

So these zone developers could make rules and laws that reflect Bible teachings. There could be no argument that such rules would be imposed on the unwilling, there is no existing population, and new arrivals know exactly what they are getting into from the start: they would be 'voting with their feet' to show they are at least tolerant of such rules.

So there would be a mandate for everything that is too much, or would cause outrage, in modern societies. So all the great controversial things could be enshrined in law: marriage would be between a man and women, school prayer could not be simply be allowed, it could be mandatory.

We could go further: public officials, judges, police and school principals would have to demonstrate a Christian faith, Christian organisations incentivized to come, ISP's obliged to filter pornography etc. New residents would be asked to sign a declaration that they understand that are coming to a Christian zone, with all that entails (as they would do when enrolling a child in a Christian private school). And if people don't want any of that, well they don't have to come and live there.

The purpose of this relatively small zone would be to demonstrate that Biblical instruction works for society, and if anyone objects to that, well we say to them that we will grow and prosper if it is right, or fold and fail if it is not.

It could also be a place where World-weary or persecuted Christians could come and stay for a season, to re-charge before returning to their home countries.

Now, the questions to you are, if this were possible, would it be right to create such a zone? Would you support it? Would you move there? Would you help create it?

Are you willing to allow the same for all other religions?

And you do realize what would eventually happen? The Christians within this area, would soon become disgruntled with other Christians that don't interpret scripture the same as them and then you would have to form other areas such as; a Baptist zone, a Catholic Zone, etc. etc. etc.

 

[keith99]

So do you not think the Puritans had a successful community? The Amish? The Mormons?

Good point.

Though I see one huge difference between these 3 and a Christian Zone. These are all distinct sects. The which part of Christianity sets the rules was already set. Even so there was some nasty infighting in each of these groups.

 

[brewmama]

Good point.

Though I see one huge difference between these 3 and a Christian Zone. These are all distinct sects. The which part of Christianity sets the rules was already set. Even so there was some nasty infighting in each of these groups.

Perhaps. But most European countries (or actually all) and all the original states, and the US for most of its history had all those things listed in the OP, and it did not create a problem.

 

[Marius27]

Perhaps. But most European countries (or actually all) and all the original states, and the US for most of its history had all those things listed in the OP, and it did not create a problem.

How do you figure?

 

[brewmama]

How do you figure?

It was known as Christendom, and encompassed Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, etc.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Let's start with the premise that the Bible contains instruction from God how people should behave in a Godly society. Secular laws contain instruction about how people should behave in modern society. Many Christians believe that laws should reflect, to an extent, Biblical teaching because a) such teaching is better for society and b) it allows them to practice and share their faith without persecution. On the other hand, secular society, and some Christians, believe that the law should reflect the current morals of society, and that a religious group shouldn't impose their beliefs on others.

The dynamic of these counter opinions has led to an ongoing struggle between the two camps, and a situation where many Christians are made to feel they are being unreasonable, and are even attacked, for suggesting certain aspects of our faith should be reflected in legislation. In some countries, in Europe in particular, governments are even creating legislation that could make some aspects of living a Christian life, Biblical parenting for example, open to prosecution.

So let's run this thought experiment (a thought experiment for now at least):

Let's say we have a zone, a bare plot of land where no one currently lives. The intention would be to develop this empty land so it will have houses and businesses etc., but even before that happens it will have political autonomy: the developers/managers could make their own rules before they even start.

So these zone developers could make rules and laws that reflect Bible teachings. There could be no argument that such rules would be imposed on the unwilling, there is no existing population, and new arrivals know exactly what they are getting into from the start: they would be 'voting with their feet' to show they are at least tolerant of such rules.

So there would be a mandate for everything that is too much, or would cause outrage, in modern societies. So all the great controversial things could be enshrined in law: marriage would be between a man and women, school prayer could not be simply be allowed, it could be mandatory.

We could go further: public officials, judges, police and school principals would have to demonstrate a Christian faith, Christian organisations incentivized to come, ISP's obliged to filter pornography etc. New residents would be asked to sign a declaration that they understand that are coming to a Christian zone, with all that entails (as they would do when enrolling a child in a Christian private school). And if people don't want any of that, well they don't have to come and live there.

The purpose of this relatively small zone would be to demonstrate that Biblical instruction works for society, and if anyone objects to that, well we say to them that we will grow and prosper if it is right, or fold and fail if it is not.

It could also be a place where World-weary or persecuted Christians could come and stay for a season, to re-charge before returning to their home countries.

Now, the questions to you are, if this were possible, would it be right to create such a zone? Would you support it? Would you move there? Would you help create it?

What you're describing is a form of rebellion that runs counter to everything the New Testament teaches.

The command that we sanctify ourselves - or "set ourselves apart" is a command that addresses our behavior, not our physical proximity to those who do not believe the gospel (Tit 2:12; I Jn 2:15f, etc.).

Christianity wouldn't even exist had Jesus never Himself come into the world to impact our lives (I Tim 1:15).

Indeed, he has given us a very specific task along those same lines:

"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." (2 Cor 5:18ff)

One simply cannot fulfill the role of an ambassador and not be amongst those to whom it is our duty to represent Christ.

 

[DaisyDay]

So do you not think the Puritans had a successful community?

They were successful in keeping the heretics out, one way or the other, but not so successful that they are still around.

The Amish? The Mormons?

More successful than the Puritans.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I'm okay with the idea of a religious commune on private land, but to back the local authorities up by giving them a government monopoly on force sounds dangerous. What if, instead of just expelling people from the community, they started to actually execute people by stoning, legalized marital rape, or imposed extreme penalties for offensive or vulgar speech? You can live in a religious commune if you want to, but I don't support giving that commune the force of a state.

 

[EddardStark]

And who decides what a real Christian is?

THIS is what everything hinges on, indeed. Who gets to make that decision? The RCC? The Southern Baptist? And which faction within those denominations?

At least the Lutherans need not worry, at least until they consider it a mission field!

Well...I am not entirely sure what this means?

 

[Desk trauma]

It was known as Christendom, and encompassed Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, etc.

Just ignore the european wars of religion, just minor skirmishes, exaggerated arguments really.

 

[CabVet]

Tolerance anyone?

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

No, not fair enough.

I once had a roommate who was black. One Friday, in a rush, I accidentally left my check on my dresser and went away for the weekend. When I got back, my check was gone. He came to me and admitted he forged my signature and then signed his under it and cashed it at a store. He asked me to forgive him. Rent was going to be due, so I told him that I would forgive him, but he was going to have to find a way to pay the rent. The next night I came home from work and his stuff was gone.

If I was to say all, or even most black men were thieves, would that be right or wrong of me? Most people would say it is wrong because I would be lumping all of the black men into a group over what one did.

I had a girlfriend once who cheated on me. She was the one feeling guilty and confessed to me. I do believe in forgiveness and as much as that hurt, I forgave her. Until she did it a second time. But if I was to state that women in general were cheating wh@%es, that would be wrong of me to generalize them over what one did.

Yet so many people find it is completely okay to say Christians are self-righteous, greedy, judgmental, etc... and a community of them would simply filter out the good and it would be better off for human beings? You may believe that is true, but the fact is, because you had some bad experience with some pseudo-Christian or have read history where religious idiots did horrible things in the name of God, that must be how all Christians are. The truth is you have absolutely no idea what a true Christian is!

I have known many good Christians who would simply blow your mind how good of people they are if you knew them. I have also known several pseudo-Christians who just because they go to Church they think they know it all and are better than others.

Churches that get millions or billions off the people fall into one of two categories. Not one. The one you recognize is greedy. This is a bad church and the pastor is not of God just because he says he is. The other is it happens to be a great Church that keeps its eyes on God, and because of that, people flock to it. Because Christians believe in the Church and are a giving lot in general, the Church prospers.

To be Christian is to strive to be Christ-like. To love everyone, not persecute. To help others. To be giving and generous, not greedy. To forgive, not be judgmental.

The problem is, the world has this image that Christians have to be perfect or they are not Christians. That if they sin, they are nothing but hypocrites. The truth is, that is so far from the truth it is almost laughable. Christians are not better than anyone else. We are human and therefore we are prone to sin. We have problems just like everyone else. Some have addictions. Some have hot tempers. Some have compulsive needs to lie, steal, smoke, drink, swear. You name a problem, there is a good Christian out there somewhere with that problem. Being a Christian does not mean we do not sin. It means we STRIVE not to sin. It also means that wheh we do sin, we feel bad for it in our hearts. A true Christian feels terrible when they sin because they have let God down. But best of all, a real Christian will also be forgiven for his sins when he asks God for that forgiveness.

The truth is, it is a harder life to be a good Christian than to not be one. To put it simple, if you are not a Christian, Satan doesnt give a crap about ya! He already has you! lol

No this is not getting into the preaching thing. I am not a preacher. I am just trying to point out how badly some of you misunderstand what a true Christian is and how you hate Christians so much because of what some others did because they said they are Christians. Well I can say I am a donkey all I want, and sometimes I will admit my wife thinks I am one in a different sense, but however much I say it, doesnt mean its true.

Middle Eastern men killed over 2000 people on 9/11 and most of us dont blame the entire people for what a few radical terrorists did. But for some reason some people do evil in the name of God and its okay to think that is what Christianity is.

The funny thing is you will persecute the Christians for being judgmental but you dont see anything wrong with coming to a Christian forum and being judgmental yourself. :o) And to make it worse, you judge Christianity for being a certain way when you have no idea what real Christianity is.

As for the Christian Zone? IF this zone was filled with true Christians, it would flourish. But if you fill it with pseudo-Christians, the type you are familiar with, then it would do exactly as you thought. Personally I would love to have a very Christian oriented town to go home to every night after working All day in this messed up world. There would be a lot less crime and the neighbors would be a lot more friendly.

true true true

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

If we isolate ourselves from sinful society how would we minister to them? I can't imagine leaving my flock to the wolves. No, I'm not an ordained minister of any sort, but I do have a ministry, my job.

I was in the army in Korea back in the early '60's. Every barracks had a Korean houseboy or two to do the cleaning and other chores. We sometimes went into the field for several days for training and maneuvers. Our houseboy, Yum, left his home and family and remained in our barracks while we were gone, to protect our stuff from being stolen by the other houseboys. His job was his ministry. He was a wonderful man and when my group left for the states we made sure he was well rewarded for his diligence, honesty, and his genuine care for us.

thats good brother, yes we are here for a duty, this world is a battlefield, we can not desert our post