Would you shoot a home invader?

[The Penitent Man]

Show that this was talking about the physically meek and strong, please.


Evidence?

Jesus of Nazareth, son of a carpenter.

You've read about him.

 

[The Penitent Man]

Indeed.

Christ's way confounds our rationalistic thinking.

Jesus defeated evil by demonstrating that evil effectively defeats itself by not understanding that it is the meek who will inherit the earth - not the strong.

Until we can gain an understand of this fact love cannot operate - because love cannot stand upon 'strength and might'. Love can only operate from a perceived 'weakness' - something which always baffles evil.

 

[ebia]

Quite sure.

"It is finished."

If they were finished, Christ would not have commanded us to make disciples. We would not be on Earth. Sinners would not still be sinners.

There's still work to be done between now and the final consumation, to be sure, but evil was defeated in Jesus' death and resurrection; and the way to be part of that cleaning up operation is to share in Jesus' way of dealing with evil.

Which says nothing about self defense being good or bad. It is a morally neutral action. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Unless you're prepared to rebuild you're entire theology of the cross I have nowhere to start. There are no morally neutral actions - you either follow the Jesus way or you follow the way of the world. I'm not condemning people who fall back on self defence in the panic of the moment, but it's not the Jesus way.

Where is that in Scripture?

Are you for real?

Because the threat is not religiously based as it was in Stephen's case.

Evil is evil, however it is dressed up.

 

[ebia]

This thread feels like trying to explain a detail to someone who isn't looking at the same picture.

 

[brinny]

"It is finished."


There's still work to be done between now and the final consumation, to be sure, but evil was defeated in Jesus' death and resurrection; and the way to be part of that cleaning up operation is to share in Jesus' way of dealing with evil.


Unless you're prepared to rebuild you're entire theology of the cross I have nowhere to start. There are no morally neutral actions - you either follow the Jesus way or you follow the way of the world. I'm not condemning people who fall back on self defence in the panic of the moment, but it's not the Jesus way.


Are you for real?


Evil is evil, however it is dressed up.

self defense is not evil, nor is defending and protecting thiose who cannot defend nor protect themselves.

 

[ebia]

The same way he dismisses the plight of victims.

Who dismisses the plight of victims? I haven't dismissed the plight of anyone...

It is written:

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isaiah 5:20

... not have I called evil good nor vice-versa.

Remember, Isaiah is the same book that describes how God will vindicate the oppressed through the suffering servant.

 

[ebia]

self defense is not evil, nor is defending and protecting thiose who cannot defend nor protect themselves.

When I said "evil is evil, however it is dressed up" that was in response to a comment trying to distinguish between being attacked by pharasees and being attacked by a burglar. Please don't twist my posts.

 

[The Penitent Man]

self defense is not evil, nor is defending and protecting thiose who cannot defend nor protect themselves.

Do you automatically equate self-defence with the use of deadly force?

 

[Zebra1552]

"It is finished."

Gee, a rather vague statement. Christ's triumph over the power of sin certainly was finished... but the world hardly is.

There's still work to be done between now and the final consumation, to be sure, but evil was defeated in Jesus' death and resurrection; and the way to be part of that cleaning up operation is to share in Jesus' way of dealing with evil.

If evil is finished, then it is finished and there is no more work to be done. You said it is finished. Now you say there's still work to do. Which is it?

Unless you're prepared to rebuild you're entire theology of the cross I have nowhere to start. There are no morally neutral actions - you either follow the Jesus way or you follow the way of the world. I'm not condemning people who fall back on self defence in the panic of the moment, but it's not the Jesus way.

Then prove it using Scripture and stop wasting my time.

Are you for real?

Yes, very much for real. Tell me where self defense is ever condemned in Scripture or the defense of others. Prove your theory.

Evil is evil, however it is dressed up.

Are you going to actually discuss the issue here or give one lined anecdotes?

 

[Zebra1552]

Do you automatically equate self-defence with the use of deadly force?

I doubt that she does. I certainly don't. In fact, if I were to kill anyone they have to be armed with a weapon for it to be considered self defense- when I killed them.

 

[Zebra1552]

Jesus of Nazareth, son of a carpenter.

You've read about him.

Red herring. That has nothing to do with what I asked.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
self defense is not evil, nor is defending and protecting thiose who cannot defend nor protect themselves.

Do you automatically equate self-defence with the use of deadly force?

THat would depend upon the intentions of the perpetrator, would it not? It is evil to pre-meditate an act that violates the safety and well being of un-suspecting ones.

Make no mistake. God does not wink hIs eye at evil. He puts in charge those who protect the innocent. It is evil to toss victims under the bus and be an enabler of one with evil intentions.

 

[Zebra1552]

Do I have t elaborate? How is it that you even have to ask that question. What don't you understand about the death and resurrection of Christ?

What it has to do with self defense.

Seriously, why do you have such a problem with it? Why is it wrong to survive and incapacitate or kill (usually incapacitate) someone who is threatening yourself and those you love?

The Cross.

The cross is not evidence that love demands weakness to work.

 

[ebia]

"It is finished!"

Gee, a rather vague statement.

Wow. Um.

Christ's triumph over the power of sin certainly was finished... but the world hardly is.

I didn't say the world was finished.

If evil is finished, then it is finished and there is no more work to be done. You said it is finished. Now you say there's still work to do. Which is it?

Do we give up, or do we turn this thread into basic Christian theology of the cross, because I see know possible way forward on the detail of the question at hand without the basic understanding of what Jesus death and resurrection is all about?

Then prove it using Scripture and stop wasting my time

Yes, very much for real. Tell me where self defense is ever condemned in Scripture or the defense of others. Prove your theory.

.
Good Christian theology is not done by proof-texting.

Are you going to actually discuss the issue here or give one lined anecdotes?

Why use 70 words when 7 will do? (And do you know what the word anecdote means?)

 

[ebia]

Jesus of Nazareth...

Red herring...

ROTFL.

I was about to give up on this thread, and then someone posts something like this. I think I'll just give up taking it seriously.

 

[Zebra1552]

Wow. Um.

Wow, um, gee, I was talking about Jesus' statement.

I didn't say the world was finished.

No?

In the cross evil and death have been decisively dealt with by Jesus' self sacrifice.

Then what exactly do you mean by 'dealt with'?

Do we give up, or do we turn this thread into basic Christian theology of the cross, because I see know possible way forward on the detail of the question at hand without the basic understanding of what Jesus death and resurrection is all about?

Why don't you start by telling me where Jesus said self defense is a

Good Christian theology is not done by proof-texting.

Do you have evidence to dispute my claims or not?

Why use 70 words when 7 will do? (And do you know what the word anecdote means?)

Because you're ignoring what I'm saying in favor of nice sounding sentences. I've said self defense and others defense is not condemned by God. You are claiming otherwise and have not given one iota of evidence to back your claim.

 

[Zebra1552]

ROTFL.

I was about to give up on this thread, and then someone posts something like this. I think I'll just give up taking it seriously.

Laughing does not make you right. If anything, it shows that you aren't willing to give this discussion and its participants the same level of respect you desire.

 

[brinny]

God changeth not. His only begotten Son and He are One. In Proverbs, His Book of wisdom, it is written that it is evil to lie in wait for the innocent and shed innocent blood. He HATES this. He and Jesus are One.

It is written:

Proverbs 6:16-19

16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

 

[ebia]

Why don't you start by telling me where Jesus said self defense is a

Because that's not how understanding Jesus' way for his disciples works.

 

[ebia]

God changeth not. His only begotten Son and He are One. In Proverbs, His Book of wisdom, it is written that it is evil to lie in wait for the innocent and shed innocent blood. He HATES this. He and Jesus are One.

It is written:

Proverbs 6:16-19

16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Keep knocking your strawman. Nobody is claiming that evil does not matter.