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I don't mean "Heaven" as a collective term.A rose, by any other name, is still a rose. Everyone hopes to be reconciled to God.
I appreciate your candor. But here's the big question: Is a fear-based decision valid? Like a confession taken under torture. Extortion.The issue of hell is a really hard one, but I don't think I would have become a Christian unless we can be lost. I didn't want to be a Christian, you see, but the truth showed me I was on my way downward. The sorrow of missing out on heaven, was a big reason for my repentance.
No it's not. Although I've found it can be stronger in some areas than others. The doctrine of Free Grace is one of those. The automatic objection to it is that it teaches "having a license to sin" and so on.
the usual argument that Universalism leaves no room for the justice of God. (not true)
I don't either. But if you were a Hindu were born in India, what would you call it?I don't mean "Heaven" as a collective term.
"Heaven"I don't either. But if you a Hindu were born in India, what would you call it?
I think it was David Hart Bentley that said the heart of it was the desire to win at someone else's expense. You can't be a BIG winner without a BIG loser. What could be a bigger win than heaven, or a bigger loss than eternity in hell?The only thing missing from universalism appears to be retributive judgment on other plain human beings. Universalism does lack that, but who would want the PR disaster of saying they love the idea of fierce retributive judgment on another human being for all eternity.
I’m waiting on an answer myself to that message. The reply that Rick did compose was just an effort to castigate you for your spicy style of debating, and whether or not that’s something valid to take home and consider, it’s also a red herring.
It would have been more productive to just ask me instead of putting this unnecessary comment on the board.
You claimed that God has a better system than Universalism. How so?
Now writes this.Same old huff and puff from you Steve. I have not taken any position on hell other than to trust God to do what's best. I suppose that`s why I find all your assumptions and distortions of statements and scriptures offensive.
You can drive people away from participating in discussions with your unfriendly aggression but such tactics will not prove your case to anyone who might have considered your views. You operate on your own power rather than in the power of the Spirit of Christ and you come across like someone with bitterness issues.
It would have been more productive to just ask me instead of putting this unnecessary comment on the board.
"... punishment for sin", there's a topic.Many will come unglued at any suggestion of punishment for sin.
The sorrow of missing out on heaven, was a big reason for my repentance.
You left some steps out:"... punishment for sin", there's a topic.
Is this how it works?
1) We are born sinful. (through no choice of our own)
2) The punishment is a forever burning hell.
3) But don't complain because it was your choice.
You have to resist these red herrings my dude.
That’s the question.
Would you not still have repented though, after becoming aware that you are capable of wrong doing, if you had become aware of a God who loved and had provided heaven for everyone? And would not this be a repentance driven by love and gratitude rather than by fear of missing out on heaven and so, in a way, a more authentic kind of repentance?
But universalism has not lost interest in you
"More authentic"? There is no such thing.
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