Would you date a non-Christian?

[ZephBonkerer]

I see. To have someone say they want the marriage to end in and of itself is a devastating thing to hear for one. Just to hear a dear brother in the Lord heard that from their spouse should make a fellow believer weep with one which is weeping and not to make light of them. , So the question is how long should one continually endure a non peaceful situation.

I put up with her neglect and mistreatment for several years. She basically quit the marriage in silence. Someone else in my situation might have continued to put up with it. If he did, I wouldn't necessarily fault him for it - it would be his decision.

But just because someone else might have continued to put up with a hopelessly failed marriage doesn't mean I bear any obligation to. Basically, I said that if she wants to be my wife, she has to be my wife. Not a roommate. I finally put her on notice that no further excuses would be tolerated. If she doesn't want to really be my wife, then I will have to find someone who will.

I offered a very reasonable opportunity to make the marriage viable when I pursued reconciliation efforts. I did so for so long as there was reason to believe reconciliation was feasible. The elder I dealt with said I needed to continue reconciliation efforts. I asked "Until when? Until I die of old age? Until she petitions the courts for a restraining order against me?" He declined to answer. Of course he did!

I can't say I understand the right and wrong of everything on how you handled it or didn't. You did say you felt the Lord gave you your answer and if that's truly how you feel you should stay with that I would think.

Thank you - I appreciate this. I sought out the Lord in this throughout the process. God isn't stupid. If I was playing games by starting with the answer I wanted, then formulating the questions designed to reach that answer, the Lord would know. I am certain I did not play games with the Lord.

When I relayed this story to another believer - one I've known for a long time - he disappointed me by suggesting that answer could have come from the Devil. He should have known that real life is not the Land of Rainbows and Unicorns. This led me to believe that I would not have been given a fair shake even by those at my former church assembly in California had I have still been there at the time. In other words, this is one more reason why the trust I once had in other believers has been shattered.

It is also one more reason why I am forced to open my dating pool to non-believers. Think about it: I haven't had a regular place of worship in two years. I parted ways with my last assembly on very bad terms. I am divorced. I have severe trust issues with other believers that I still have yet to fully resolve. For these reasons, I do not look good on paper to a Christian woman who desires a man - especially one who will participate with her in church activities.

And you mentioned some other things about these brethren . Here's what I'd like to say. I'd like to see you healed on the inside. This has help me. Remember Jesus giving the King Story. Matt 18:27 One who had a great debt and the Lord forgave him for it. He went to his fellow servants the sinned against him ...

Yes, I am familiar with what Matthew 18 says on the matter. But also keep in mind that Joseph didn't let his brothers off the hook easily. Nor will I let them off the hook easily. I wish I could say I have no hard feelings, but that would be a lie. I would gladly entertain talks to zero out the ledger. But that is easier said than done as these men lack the bravery to deal honestly with me.

I was slandered to my face, lied to, insulted, etc by people who were supposed to be honoring the Lord, not blaspheming Him! I don't forget such things, and I don't forgive easily. Note: I didn't say that I don't forgive - only that I don't do so easily. I was dishonored unjustly and subjected to a treatment reserved for liars and thieves for doing something I had no reasonable choice but to do.

It doesn't help things when other believers give approval to the actions of these elders. When they do that, they signal to me that their moral compass is as flawed as that of these elders.

Consider that they may have sincerely from their heart felt they were doing the right thing. Perhaps you can have an opinion good men can have a different opinion still holding out by faith that they are good men...

If it were merely a difference of opinion, I would not have advance any charge of bad faith against them. They knew my opinion on the matter as I had made it known to them. I made it very clear to them that I do not recognize the Marriage Permanence Doctrine as scripturally valid teaching. I also made it very clear that I would never accept that doctrine as valid. To keep their dignity intact, I even offered to leave that assembly if my position on this matter might prove to be a problem later.

The least they could have done was be honest with me regarding where they stand on this - rather than lying to me regarding this. Of course I would have left that assembly, but would that have been any worse than what ultimately happened?

Given how adamant I was in rejecting that particular teaching, it was pretty insulting for them to think they could strong-arm me into accepting their point of view - after I repeatedly indicated that I would have none of it. You could tell me that Elvis Presley and Donald Trump met with the Queen of England and some Martians for tea and I would find that easier to believe. Just what made these people think they were going to change my mind?

There's a long list of reasons why I have a hard time crediting any innocent explanation regarding the actions of these elders. Godly church leaders do not conduct their disciplinary practices that way. Godly church leaders do not engage in spiritual abuse, nor do they evade reasonable questions regarding their policies and practices. And godly church leaders maintain the highest ethical standards. I believe their actions are enough to warrant substantial doubt regarding whether they even know the Lord at all.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

This whole experience opened my eyes to a teaching that I call the Marriage Permanence Doctrine. This doctrine holds that for those that regard Jesus as their personal savior, there are no valid grounds for divorce other than adultery and abandonment by an unbelieving spouse. And even under these conditions, divorce may not be considered a valid remedy. Incredibly, some variations of this doctrine hold that divorce is never allowed even in these cases!

I presume I don't have to recap the ramifications this doctrine would have to someone who is married to some worthless bum who flagrantly disregards their marital vows. I would reject this teaching as unbiblical for that reason alone. It doesn't fit the Lord's Character.

What I've realized in this: people who believe this doctrine are oftentimes pushy and obnoxious in promoting it. To them, if you do not see it their way, it is because you want to "please your flesh" or some malarkey like that. There is no "agree to disagree" with these people. It was the same thing with the elders I dealt with. They could have let me walk away quietly without further ado - I offered that to them. But I suppose they felt like such dignity was too good for me. They just had to insult me by pushing me out instead of allowing me to walk on my own accord.

I would very much like to be able to trust other believers again. But given this experience, and the shocking lack of disapproval of their unethical conduct among other believers - it's easier said than done.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Something occurred to me after I wrote these things:

There are things that some believers might consider sin - either per se or under certain circumstances - but aren't clearly named as such in the Word. This itself is fair as not all ethical questions would distill into a nice and tidy set of rules like a legal code or a "three-part test" would. Paul the Apostle dealt with issues like eating meat sacrificed to idols and other dietary matters. We might deal with questions like listening to secular music, watching Game of Thrones, women's clothing, etc.

How would a reasonable church elder deal with a matter that concerns conduct that may or may not be sin? Their opinion on a matter was that D = sin, the Word of God says so, and nothing would persuade them otherwise. My opinion on the matter was that D is not sin, the Word of God says so, and nothing would persuade me otherwise. Where does one go with this? They called my actions sin - while I maintained that none of these actions constituted sin of any kind.

Are the elders supposed to browbeat me into submission until I accept their point of view on the matter? Their attempt to do so only infuriated me. I'm not easily manipulated, and I've been described as "stubborn" by those who have tried and were unsuccessful.

 

[Bobber]

I put up with her neglect and mistreatment for several years. She basically quit the marriage in silence. Someone else in my situation might have continued to put up with it. If he did, I wouldn't necessarily fault him for it - it would be his decision.

Sure. Everyone has different perimeters of what they'll accept . Some people hold together for no other reason than to pay their bills and maintain their standard of living.

Basically, I said that if she wants to be my wife, she has to be my wife. Not a roommate. I finally put her on notice that no further excuses would be tolerated. If she doesn't want to really be my wife, then I will have to find someone who will.

OK you say you were acting like roomates. Personal question you don't have to answer. So did she defraud you from having physical relations? I ask for if she did that's equivalent to abandonment and I believe I can demonstrate that from the Bible.

If I was playing games by starting with the answer I wanted, then formulating the questions designed to reach that answer, the Lord would know. I am certain I did not play games with the Lord.

It seems to me you were sincere and doing your best to hear from God.

He should have known that real life is not the Land of Rainbows and Unicorns.

I take from that you're meaning life is not just black and white. There's grey areas where people strive to get the feel of the truth.

In other words, this is one more reason why the trust I once had in other believers has been shattered.

Perhaps you need to think out of the box. What I mean is you say believers have shattered you and aren't sure you can perhaps relate with those who marginalize you. It's like this, you might have heard ...one puts a dot on a white sheet. Then the other is asked what they see....the one says a dot......But what about all the white space? My point. There are massive amount of believers and yes even churches which could accept you and understand what your past is and still accept you and give you the right hand of fellowship.

It is also one more reason why I am forced to open my dating pool to non-believers.

As for me I'd never, never ever do that. Never. You have said you believe God told you to let it go. I have no problem hearing of your circumstances that God could very well have said that. Seeing he did and seeing he sees you need a wife if you say you do.....scriptures says if one burns they're better off to marry. God then KNOWING your predicament can bring you a potential spouse. Easier said then done??

Well if happened to me over 45 years ago. I got broken hearted over two different females in my early twenties. Some of my Christian friends.....not with a girlfriend said they were going to the non Christians.....I said NOPE I'm not.....and announced if God has to go to another city or region to find me a wife that's what I'm believing. And I thanked God for it every day. Well that' what God did. LOL I met her in another city and region.

I'd still like to respond to the rest of your post tomorrow. Hope we can continue talking further. Peace.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Sure. Everyone has different perimeters of what they'll accept . Some people hold together for no other reason than to pay their bills and maintain their standard of living.

And that seemed to be the expectation that I do the same. People who have a higher threshold of tolerance for nonsense should not shame those with a lower tolerance for it.

OK you say you were acting like roomates. Personal question you don't have to answer. So did she defraud you from having physical relations? I ask for if she did that's equivalent to abandonment and I believe I can demonstrate that from the Bible.

She would not defraud me outright, but she might as well have. She would pick fights and arguments just before sex. She would cover herself in a heavy blanket with the excuse that the room had a draft. The room could be 80 degrees and she would still do that. I could have gotten about the same level of passion and intimacy from a prostitute or a real life sex doll.

By her actions, she really demonstrated that she didn't really want to be there. I told her this had to change or the marriage is over. Yes, it was an ultimatum - but it was necessary. I've tried less drastic remedies before only to be met with excuses, half-measures, empty promises, and other forms of temporary appeasement. Without the threat of divorce, nothing would have changed.

It seems to me you were sincere and doing your best to hear from God.

Thank you Bob. My conscience is clear. I am confident that I did seek the Lord in good faith in this matter. I would have been foolish to have done anything else. You gave me far more credit than a lot of Christians did.

The last thing I wanted was to live with constant doubt for the rest of my life - that is wondering if the marriage could have been salvaged if I had not pulled the plug too soon. Now there is not a shred of doubt in my mind that there was no saving the marriage. She had quit the marriage years ago. No amount of counseling or reconciliation talks would ever save the marriage. It was over and done. It took me about two months to come to terms with that fact, but I finally did.

I take from that you're meaning life is not just black and white. There's grey areas where people strive to get the feel of the truth.

Sometimes you get these Christians who have watched too many movies on the Hallmark Channel. They'll say things like "God can save any marriage". And they seem to think reconciliation is always the answer. What they do not understand is that reconciliation is not always feasible, and it is not always appropriate. In my case, it wasn't up to God, it was up to my then-wife to be willing to make the necessary changes so that the marriage could continue.

I pursued reconciliation with my then-wife for as long as I had reason to believe there was a realistic prospect for a successful reconciliation and that reconciliation was appropriate. I only ceased reconciliation efforts and began the process of dissolving the marriage when she said she wanted out. At that point, further reconciliation efforts would have been foolish.

I have a hard time understanding what would make a reasonable church elder think divorce in my case was any kind of sin at all, let alone one worthy of excommunication. Although I did threaten divorce early on, in practice I treated divorce as a remedy of last resort. Where, oh where, is the sin in that? And where is the sin in me getting married again? What crime had I committed that I deserve to be forever condemned to celibacy for the rest of my life?

Perhaps you need to think out of the box. What I mean is you say believers have shattered you and aren't sure you can perhaps relate with those who marginalize you. It's like this, you might have heard ...one puts a dot on a white sheet. Then the other is asked what they see....the one says a dot......But what about all the white space? My point. There are massive amount of believers and yes even churches which could accept you and understand what your past is and still accept you and give you the right hand of fellowship.

This is fair. It is not my desire to remain estranged from other believers. I actually was estranged from my birth mother for seven years - it sucks - even though I was the one doing the estranging. My mother changed her attitude, and I ended the estrangement because of it. Believe me, if I had written off Christians for good, I would not be on ChristianForums.com in the first place.

As for how to deal with those who marginalize me: If you turn your back on me, I will repay in kind. If you marginalize me, I will marginalize you. If you slander me to my face, I will curse you out and consider you an enemy. Those who unjustly condemn divorcees are in my eyes no different than those who condemn those who do not have white skin. Perhaps there is some mitigating circumstance that makes such people less bad than a racist or white supremacist, but I have yet to find one. I consider such people worthy of the treatment outlined in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. Yes, I am that ruthless towards these idolaters who masquerade as followers of Christ.

I don't doubt that there are many church assemblies who would not hold my past against me. But this is still complicated by the fact that my former church assembly actually lied to me by claiming they would not hold a divorce against me - only to abruptly change their tune on me and refuse to give an honest explanation. Who is to say another assembly would not pull some similar stunt?

I would love to believe that most other Christians would consider the actions of these elders well beyond the pale - and well outside the bounds of acceptable conduct among church elders. But I cannot justify any such belief without some supporting evidence.

The process outlined in Matthew 18:15-20 was designed to deal with sin in the church and to call the person to repentance. To abuse this process in order to strong-arm someone into accepting your point of view on a controversial matter of doctrine is grossly unethical.

As for me I'd never, never ever do that. Never. You have said you believe God told you to let it go. I have no problem hearing of your circumstances that God could very well have said that. Seeing he did and seeing he sees you need a wife if you say you do.....scriptures says if one burns they're better off to marry...

I also considered 1 Corinthians 7:9 in my situation. Celibacy and I simply do not get along, so remarriage is practically a necessity for me. I don't recall Paul the Apostle ever naming divorcees as an exception to the general rules he named in verses 9 and 28 of that chapter.

Well if happened to me over 45 years ago. I got broken hearted over two different females in my early twenties. Some of my Christian friends.....not with a girlfriend said they were going to the non Christians.....I said NOPE I'm not.....and announced if God has to go to another city or region to find me a wife that's what I'm believing. And I thanked God for it every day. Well that' what God did. LOL I met her in another city and region.

I'd still like to respond to the rest of your post tomorrow. Hope we can continue talking further. Peace.

I appreciate your words as well. They assure me that there is still some common sense and common decency among Christians. While the trust and esteem I once held for other believers has been shattered, I can assure you that my own faith has not wavered. My values have not changed.

People who condemn others for taking a certain action when they had no reasonable alternative display a profound lack of sense. Those elders were fully aware of the efforts I made to make divorce unnecessary, yet they - in their grand wisdom and virtue - chose to condemn me for the divorce anyway. People who know God do not behave this way, but idolaters might do so from time to time.

I know of people who divorced their spouses under circumstances far more compelling than mine - and even they were subjected to church disciplinary proceedings! One was a battered wife, another was married to a now convicted pedophile. Use of a disciplinary process to shame these people out of getting a much-needed divorce is an act discreditable to the Faith. I am ashamed and embarrassed to call myself a Christian not because of what Christ has done - but because of how others bearing that same label have behaved towards those who have suffered abuse at the hands of those who were supposed to love them. My contempt for such people - and those who give approval to such conduct - knows no bounds.

 

[Bobber]

Thank you Bob. My conscience is clear. I am confident that I did seek the Lord in good faith in this matter. I would have been foolish to have done anything else. You gave me far more credit than a lot of Christians did.

Well I see no need to question that you didn't seek God or to question that you didn't hear from him. Really I don't claim to know exactly everything about the marriage subject. Oh I know the few verses people speak of that is God's perfect will for marriage to work but God did allow a writing of divorcement in the OT. Matt 19:7 Yes God's perfect will though was for couples even though they were imperfect to seek to keep the Commandment of Love, Matt 22:39 be flexible with each other, and a lot of endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:3

Endeavoring can be very tough work. Not easy. One keeps working at endeavoring longing to see the light of the day because sometimes it's like a night. There is an overriding factor I think though and that's God has called us to PEACE. 1 Cor 7:15 And what if there just NEVER be a PEACE. Does God want one to wander around experiencing a stressful situation forever? I wouldn't think so although I think it would grieve and sadden the Lord that either both spouses or even if it's only one just won't do things that make for peace. Does God call us to stay in an everlasting turmoil? In my spirit I'd say no, not necessary and I think I have the feel from the Spirit of God on this.

Not about marriage but here's something interesting. Abraham had his nephew Lot with him in the camp. Gen 13: 5 Both had large herds and fights and strife became a continual thing between the two groups. Abraham recognized they need to have PEACE and insisted they separate. You go here and I'll go there. Ultimately they had to have peace. Also Abraham and Hagar, and Sarah.....same type of thing. Gen 21: 8 Interesting any way one ones to cut it....Abraham committed adultery with Hagar even though Sarah orchestrated it to happen.

Perhaps your church elders would have kicked Abraham out of your church. Abraham also eventually sent her away with their Son. It came about for the reason of PEACE. There was always turmoil. It had to be changed. Real life at times can create a scenario where such probably has to take place even when it's not ideal but rather unfortunately necessary.

What they do not understand is that reconciliation is not always feasible, and it is not always appropriate.

Well sometimes I believe it's not appropriate but I do think they need to forgive them. Now here's one thing I think Christians do get confused on. I hear people say if you don't reconcile you haven't forgiven them. That's just not true. One must however forgive there's no question about that.

I pursued reconciliation with my then-wife for as long as I had reason to believe there was a realistic prospect for a successful reconciliation and that reconciliation was appropriate. I only ceased reconciliation efforts and began the process of dissolving the marriage when she said she wanted out.

I do have one question about this though. Was this something she said on an on going basis....more than one time?

 

[aNewMan]

I have in the past but now I can’t do it anymore.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Well I see no need to question that you didn't seek God or to question that you didn't hear from him. Really I don't claim to know exactly everything about the marriage subject. Oh I know the few verses people speak of that is God's perfect will for marriage to work but God did allow a writing of divorcement in the OT...

You're good. I believe the divorce process was intended as an out in the event someone has the misfortune of being married to someone who refuses to honor their marital vows. Marriage is not a suicide pact. That there is even any controversy at all in the church regarding divorce in cases of serious abuse is something I consider an embarrassment to the Faith as a whole.

God's perfect will died the day Eve munched on the forbidden fruit. We cannot reclaim Eden this side of eternity - we can only abide by His will to the best of our ability.

Endeavoring can be very tough work. Not easy. One keeps working at endeavoring longing to see the light of the day because sometimes it's like a night. There is an overriding factor I think though and that's God has called us to PEACE. 1 Cor 7:15 And what if there just NEVER be a PEACE. Does God want one to wander around experiencing a stressful situation forever? ... Does God call us to stay in an everlasting turmoil? In my spirit I'd say no, not necessary and I think I have the feel from the Spirit of God on this.

It's hard to see how staying in everlasting turmoil is supposed to bring glory to God. Those who claim this are basically making an idol out of marriage. Idolatry is never honoring to God.

I find such especially blasphemous and slanderous to God as the teaching of Marriage Permanence implies that God cares more about marriage than He does people. If Jesus refused to credit that teaching with respect to the Sabbath, what would make a man think He would with respect to marriage?

Not about marriage but here's something interesting. Abraham had his nephew Lot with him in the camp. Gen 13: 5 Both had large herds and fights and strife became a continual thing between the two groups. Abraham recognized they need to have PEACE and insisted they separate. You go here and I'll go there. Ultimately they had to have peace. Also Abraham and Hagar, and Sarah.....same type of thing. Gen 21: 8 Interesting any way one ones to cut it....Abraham committed adultery with Hagar even though Sarah orchestrated it to happen.

Perhaps your church elders would have kicked Abraham out of your church. Abraham also eventually sent her away with their Son. It came about for the reason of PEACE. There was always turmoil. It had to be changed. Real life at times can create a scenario where such probably has to take place even when it's not ideal but rather unfortunately necessary.

They probably would have kicked a lot of people out of that church assembly that you and I would not. When I considered how that elder conducted himself, it's pretty obvious to me that there was no defense I could offer that he would credit. He came to that meeting with an agenda: to pressure, manipulate, coerce, and strong-arm me into accepting his flawed point of view. He was evasive when I would answer questions because answering truthfully would not have advanced his agenda. In fact, it would likely hinder it.

I had already decided prior to the meeting that I would not back down, even under threat of excommunication. I did, however, hold out hope that he would see the error of his ways.

I believe we need to be careful to not presume the good faith of a church elder simply because he is a church elder. That is especially true when there is evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe that elder may have engaged in spiritual abuse, or any other form of serious misconduct. There is never an excuse or innocent explanation for abuse of any kind.

Well sometimes I believe it's not appropriate but I do think they need to forgive them. Now here's one thing I think Christians do get confused on. I hear people say if you don't reconcile you haven't forgiven them. That's just not true. One must however forgive there's no question about that.

Forgiveness is not the issue. My now ex-wife and I are on good terms. I'm even planning on getting her a Roku device so she can save money and not have to pay for cable.

I do have one question about this though. Was this something she said on an on going basis....more than one time?

She didn't say it outright until just before I threatened divorce, but her actions in the years prior were entirely consistent with it. It was killing me, and it had to stop. I think she was fine with being a roommate - she seemed to like the economic perks of being married to me. But that so did not work for me! If you want to be my wife, you need to be my wife. If you are not comfortable with normal intimacy, then you cannot be my wife. It's that simple.

 

[Bobber]

You're good. I believe the divorce process was intended as an out in the event someone has the misfortune of being married to someone who refuses to honor their marital vows. Marriage is not a suicide pact. That there is even any controversy at all in the church regarding divorce in cases of serious abuse is something I consider an embarrassment to the Faith as a whole.

OK it's thought by some that perhaps there's exceptions that Jesus when talking about divorce wasn't meant to apply to every conceivable scenario. 1 Cor 7 states the following, "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:" So what can we take from such a statement? It seems this, that Paul is taking us to a direction that Jesus strict rule wasn't intended to apply to every conceivable scenario.

Mike Winger on his youtube piece, "Divorce and Remarriage: And EVERYTHING the Bible Says About It" says the following about 1 Cor 7,

"Jesus as teaching as if there's a situation that is unique that is just unique it's just strange and weird like this one we can have it implicit permission to approach it without the strictest view on marriage that some take we can say Jesus's rule is the general rule but this situation seems different so we need to consider it individually I think this gives us real space for divorce not only with for the obstinate unbeliever who doesn't want to be married but for things like abuse or other extreme and you know life we get weird crazy situations that people are in that you're like man I don't think Jesus had that in mind when he was giving this rule and and I think this gives us space for those types of things"

Food for thought which I believe would hold true.

I had already decided prior to the meeting that I would not back down, even under threat of excommunication.

OK Zeph so what exactly does that mean from your former church....excommunication? Does that mean you're told not to attend? Does it mean they take your membership away or both?

I believe we need to be careful to not presume the good faith of a church elder simply because he is a church elder.

Call that my weakness if you like. I like to lean on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt and try my best to at least strive to want to give them honor. I think I'd rather err on being somewhat this way then err on being the opposite.

That is especially true when there is evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe that elder may have engaged in spiritual abuse, or any other form of serious misconduct. There is never an excuse or innocent explanation for abuse of any kind.

Sure. And everyone will give account for how they have treated the sheep. A greater more strict judgement. I say graciously to the Lord like Stephen did count not their sin against them what they have done to me. I've messed up and have done wrong things too.

Forgiveness is not the issue. My now ex-wife and I are on good terms. I'm even planning on getting her a Roku device so she can save money and not have to pay for cable.

Well that's very good.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

OK it's thought by some that perhaps there's exceptions that Jesus when talking about divorce wasn't meant to apply to every conceivable scenario. 1 Cor 7 states the following, "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:" So what can we take from such a statement? It seems this, that Paul is taking us to a direction that Jesus strict rule wasn't intended to apply to every conceivable scenario.

It is fair to say that no divorce should happen without some compelling reason to do so. In Paul's time, you had people getting divorced under the mistaken notion that celibacy was holier than being married.

But if there is a compelling reason, then marriage is not a suicide pact.

OK Zeph so what exactly does that mean from your former church....excommunication? Does that mean you're told not to attend? Does it mean they take your membership away or both?

In my case, I was told that their assembly could not be my place of worship. If I was a full fledged member at the time, that would have been revoked. I made no attempt to appeal the decision of excommunication as I no longer found the leaders trustworthy.

Call that my weakness if you like. I like to lean on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt and try my best to at least strive to want to give them honor. I think I'd rather err on being somewhat this way then err on being the opposite.

I see nothing wrong with that. I myself did the same thing for a time.