• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured would you consume Christ?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by DamianWarS, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

    +2,089
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    I am not Catholic, you would do good to find out instead of assume with your anti Traditional Christian bias. Traditional Christian believe Christ Real Presence are in the elements as He said even though some can't stand that Christ said that so make up their own Christianity
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,188
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I don't got time to figure out every kind of church that is out there. For all I know, there could be a new branch of Christianity tomorrow that operates under the guise of the name of the church you attend. Knowing about all the religions or churches is a full time job that I do not have time for. I study the Bible and the Bible alone because most every other supposed holy writings out there contradicts the Bible in many ways.

    Also, again. You cannot consume a spirit being. You can only consume solid food. Besides, what would be the purpose in doing so anyways? A believer can have an assurance that they abide in the Lord if they find that they are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). Jesus said if you keep His commandments we shall abide in His love (John 15:10). He did not say that this is only if we partake of the Lord's supper only.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  3. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,296
    Christian
    Private
    Christ also immediately says "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all" Why does Christ ask us to eat his flesh, then turns around and says flesh is nothing?
     
  4. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

    930
    +871
    Japan
    Lutheran
    Married
    [​IMG]

    I gather that the OP question/statement is a rejection of the Real Presence in the Eucharist, but (1) it betrays a lack of understanding about the subject matter, and (2) it's an absurd strawman argument.

    The only branch of Christendom that teaches anything that could be construed as a carnal eating of Jesus Christ would be the Roman Transubstantiation, but even that, as far as I understand it, confesses that the substance changes, but not their accidents, and so it wouldn't be a literal cannibal-like consumption as suggested in the OP.

    In short, it's quite possible to believe in the Real Presence without being a cannibal, for this is how it's always been understood in the Church: Is it bread? Yes. Is it wine? Yes. Is it Christ's body? Yes. Is it Christ's blood? Yes. How? It's a mystery - similar to the mystery that Christ is fully man and fully God (not 50/50, not a demi-god, but 100% man and 100% God). It cannot be explained by reason, but it's an article of faith, because it hangs on God's own Word and promise. Why do we receive it? Because of God's grace, Christ instituted it as His last will and gift for us, giving us His body and blood for our comfort, of which He said: "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."
     
  5. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

    +2,089
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    We will disagree as you invent your own Christianity over the Historical Faith once delivered Christianity
     
  6. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

    +2,089
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Exactly!
     
  7. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

    +2,089
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Check out post 64.
     
  8. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

    +3,167
    United States
    Reformed
    Single
    US-Republican
    Pretty disgusting.
     
  9. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

    +1,180
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    This is a hypothetical question that could never be. I may as well say what would you do if faced with the moon to eat?

    Referring to John 6:53-57
    53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

    Earlier in this same chapter, he feed the 5,000. This contrast between physical food and spiritual food sets the stage for Jesus’ statement that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. Jesus explains that it is not physical bread that the world needs, but spiritual bread.

    Jesus calls himself the bread of life. He wasn't a literal walking loaf of bread. It's symbolism meaning we need him as much as we need food, but he is food for the soul.
    He is also the Passover lamb which is why they ate lamb at the Passover. It was another piece of symbolism or shadow of what was to come. Jesus was not an actual lamb.
     
  10. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,296
    Christian
    Private
    good thing the op doesn't talk about any of that
     
  11. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

    +1,736
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Single
    True, nevertheless the importance of what it means needs to be appreciated. Do we truly appreciate what we are doing when we eat of Him?

    Notwithstanding the obvious squeamish feeling about eating and drinking the physical things, shouldn't the physical act suggested by the OP be less of an issue for us than the reality of consuming Him so that we can live?

    Yeshua challenged the disciples in a similar fashion over the washing of feet. The physical act in front of them, the Messiah kneeling before them washing their stinky road soiled feet, caused repulsion and horror, and yet He insisted that unless they allowed it they would have no part with Him.

    When I was challenged to believe in transubstantiation by a RC friend of mine, it occurred to me that regardless of whether the bread and the wine become flesh and blood after consecration, there is something very much bigger, more literal and more shocking happening than that question. That we really are consuming the very person of Yeshua who is the very expression of YHWH when we eat and drink of Him.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +25,598
    Anglican
    Married
    You're probably right as far as John 6 is concerned, but the primary evidence doesn't come from the passage in John 6 but rather from the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper and what Christ said there about it.
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +25,598
    Anglican
    Married
    No. All of them (and some more) believe in the Real Presence, but that's not the same thing as believing in the sacrament in the way the OP described the elements.

    The only one that comes close to that is the RCC and even its doctrine of transubstantiation isn't correctly described as the OP worded the matter.
     
  14. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

    930
    +871
    Japan
    Lutheran
    Married
    Well, if it's not about the Eucharist, what is it about?
     
  15. Paulus59

    Paulus59 Active Member

    323
    +351
    Non-Denom
    Private
    That's called cannibalism Damian and which is an abomination to the Lord.

    **************************************************

    I copied & pasted this from GotQuestion.org

    Question: "What did Jesus mean when He said we must eat His flesh and drink His blood?"

    Answer:
    In John 6:53–57, Jesus says, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” Upon hearing these words, many of Jesus’ followers said, “This is a hard teaching” (verse 60), and many of them actually stopped following Him that day (verse 66).

    Jesus’ graphic imagery about eating His flesh and drinking His blood is indeed puzzling at first. Context will help us understand what He is saying. As we consider everything that Jesus said and did in John 6, the meaning of His words becomes clearer.

    Earlier in the chapter, Jesus fed the 5,000 (John 6:1–13). The next day, the same multitudes continued to follow Him, seeking another meal. Jesus pointed out their short-sightedness: they were only seeking physical bread, but there was something more important: “Food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you” (verse 27). At this point, Jesus attempts to turn their perspective away from physical sustenance to their true need, which was spiritual.

    This contrast between physical food and spiritual food sets the stage for Jesus’ statement that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. Jesus explains that it is not physical bread that the world needs, but spiritual bread. Jesus three times identifies Himself as that spiritual bread (John 6:35, 48, 51). And twice He emphasizes faith (a spiritual action) as the key to salvation: “My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life” (verse 40); and “Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life” (verse 47).

    Jesus then compares and contrasts Himself to the manna that Israel had eaten in the time of Moses: “Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die” (John 6:49–50). Like manna, Jesus came down from heaven; and, like manna, Jesus gives life. Unlike manna, the life Jesus gives lasts for eternity (verse 58). In this way, Jesus is greater than Moses (see Hebrews 3:3).

    Having established His metaphor (and the fact that He is speaking of faith in Him), Jesus presses the symbolism even further: “I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever; and this bread, which I will offer so the world may live, is my flesh. . . . I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you. But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. . . . My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. . . . Anyone who feeds on me will live because of me” (John 6:51–56, NLT).

    To prevent being misconstrued, Jesus specifies that He has been speaking metaphorically: “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life” (John 6:63). Those who misunderstood Jesus and were offended by His talk about eating His flesh and drinking His blood were stuck in a physical mindset, ignoring the things of the Spirit. They were concerned with getting another physical meal, so Jesus uses the realm of the physical to teach a vital spiritual truth. Those who couldn’t make the jump from the physical to the spiritual turned their backs on Jesus and walked away (verse 66).

    At the Last Supper, Jesus gives a similar message and one that complements His words in John 6—when the disciples gather to break bread and drink the cup, they “proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes” (1 Corinthians 11:26). In fact, Jesus said that the bread broken at the table is His body, and the cup they drink is the new covenant in His blood, shed for the forgiveness of sins (Matthew 26:26–28). Their act of eating and drinking was to be a symbol of their faith in Christ. Just as physical food gives earthly life, Christ’s sacrifice on the cross gives heavenly life.

    Some people believe that the bread and wine of communion are somehow transformed into Jesus’ actual flesh and blood, or that Jesus somehow imbues these substances with His real presence. These ideas, called transubstantiation (professed by the Catholic and Orthodox churches) and consubstantiation (held by Lutherans), ignore Jesus’ statement that “the flesh counts for nothing” (John 6:63). The majority of Protestants understand that Jesus was speaking metaphorically about His flesh and blood and hold that the bread and wine are symbolic of the spiritual bond created with Christ through faith.

    In the wilderness testing, the devil tempts Jesus with bread, and Jesus answers, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God’” (Matthew 4:4, quoting Deuteronomy 8:3). The implication is that the bread is God’s Word and that is what sustains us. Jesus is called the Word of God who came to earth and was made flesh (John 1:14). The Word of God is also the Bread of Life (John 6:48).

    The book of Hebrews references the way that God uses the physical things of this earth as a way to help us understand and apply spiritual truth. Hebrews 8:5 says that some tangible things are “a copy and shadow of what is in heaven,” and that chapter explains how the Old Covenant, so concerned with physical rites and ceremonies, was replaced by the New Covenant in which God’s laws are written on our hearts (verse 10; cf. Jeremiah 31:33).

    Hebrews 9:1–2 says, “The first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place.” According to Hebrews 8:5, the consecrated bread, or the “bread of the Presence,” was a physical representation of a spiritual concept, namely, the actual presence of God being continually with us today. The physical tent of meeting has been replaced by a spiritual temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16), and the physical bread of the Presence has become the spiritual bread that abides within us through the Holy Spirit.

    When Jesus said we must “eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood” (John 6:53), He spoke, as He often did, in parabolic terms. We must receive Him by faith (John 1:12). “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled” (Matthew 5:6). We understand that we need physical food and drink; Jesus wants us to understand that we also need spiritual food and drink—and that is what His sacrifice provides.

    ********************************************
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,188
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    And that is just your opinion. You need Scripture and evidence to back up your claims.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +6,188
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I would ignore the claims and I would ignore the flesh and blood before me, and just go back to studying my Bible more and in serving the Lord. I would partake of the Lord's supper in a way that is in remembrance of Him (as He said). I believe the bread, and the fruit of the vine are merely symbolic of Christ's flesh and blood and we partake of this ceremony as a declaration of his death until He comes.
     
  18. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

    +2,296
    Christian
    Private
    if it's a strawman when juxtaposed with the Eucharist then it's unfair but I'm not the one doing that. If you wish to comment on it in relation to the Eucharist or other practices that's up to you but then it's your strawman, not mine. The question is about if the flesh and blood of Christ inherently have power and beneficial for consumption beyond their natural state. (otherwise, why would you consume it).

    Obviously it's not going to happen but likely flesh was torn from Christ while being lashed and there certainly was blood involved so there may have been an opportunity for some to see both flesh and blood of Christ in front of them and then reminded of Christ's words to eat his flesh and drink his blood.

    For myself, I wouldn't eat/drink it but the idea would pop into my head.
     
  19. section9+1

    section9+1 Well-Known Member

    +1,046
    Christian
    Married
    No way. I'd assume the authentic documentation was a lie.
     
  20. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

    +1,562
    United States
    Oriental Orthodox
    Single
    Well since we are in the realm of science fiction I would clone it, Jurassic Park style! I would give the young genetically perfect Jesus some kind of education in the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch where he would learn many things including Aramaic, Arabic, Koine, English, Latin etc. then I would have him give guided tours of the Holy Land and museums of the Holy Land in character like those "Living History" displays in the US where people dress up and reenact what life is like for the Colonists and early Americans.
     
Loading...