Would lyrics like this fly in this day & age

[Nihilismus]

Obviously, youth should be viewed with as much contempt as blacks. If they happen to be young and black, then it's just twice as bad. All of you young idealists need to grow up and face the facts that judging by appearances is a solid and reliable method for anything. Racist stereotypes exist because they're true. That's just one of the things you grow to accept when you become old and bitter and generally unpleasant.

Come on, kids...

 

[Avatar]

Obviously, youth should be viewed with as much contempt as blacks. If they happen to be young and black, then it's just twice as bad. All of you young idealists need to grow up and face the facts that judging by appearances is a solid and reliable method for anything. Racist stereotypes exist because they're true. That's just one of the things you grow to accept when you become old and bitter and generally unpleasant.

Come on, kids...

Thing is, when youth dress like idiots, they generally are idiots. some outgrow it...

And I'm not treating youth with contempt, I'm treating them as what they are. People with a lot less experience. You learn as you grow unless something is very wrong with you. So no, a 17 year old does not have the same experience as a 30, 40, 50, year old. Why is it wrong to point that out?

Are teens the latest PC protected group?

 

[Nihilismus]

Indeed. I cannot stand political correctness! How we're not allowed to say racist things anymore without being branded as racist! It's absurd!

Why can't I be allowed to be prejudiced towards young people without being called a crotchety old fart? I have lived a lot longer than any of them, therefore I am more intelligent. Teenagers do not deserve the right to dress themselves or be opinionated; angsty rebelliousness has never provided any insight. The young should be stifled and made to be as hateful and reactionary as ourselves.

That's how society progresses after all.

 

[stan1980]

It's all very well if you're middle class or live in a decent area to condemn or stereotype every kid you don't like the look of.

For kids though who actually live in the middle of bad areas, a lot of them dress a certain way because everyone else does. I didn't grow up in the best of places, lived on the fringes of some rough neighbourhoods and there was the tendency to dress intimidating yourself so that you get left alone by other teenagers who are looking for trouble or to rob you. It can be a defensive thing.

Luckily, most my friends were nails, so apart from the odd incident, not a lot of violence came our way, but you can sort of feel safer if you're dressed a particular way.

In the end though, I guess most of you wont have interactions with teenagers anyway, no matter how they're dressed, so your stereotypes are fairly harmless, but just wanted to point out not all kids are bad if they're dressed a way you don't like, they might actually be consciously or subconsciously doing it for their own protection, and have no intention of causing others harm.

 

[KCKID]

A n y w a y, back to song lyrics flying in this day and age. What about the following:

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now am found
Was blind, but now I see

Some people find these lyrics offensive when sung in a public setting. It's true. A couple of weeks ago Radlad72 (an active member of this forum) and I and a couple of other members of our singing group performed a two-hour Christmas Concert at a particular public venue. While most people enjoyed our performance of contemporary and lively versions of traditional Christmas Carols, a few did not appreciate some of the songs at all. They found that the religious content of most of the songs we perform (we also sing some secular Christmas songs) were actually offensive to either them or to others that were there. One person, a well-known columnist/journalist for the local newspaper, told us in no uncertain terms that 'religious' songs have no place at public venues. Of course, while we didn't include Amazing Grace in our Christmas repertoire it would have had the same effect with some people had we done so.

I fear that, in time, the perceived majority will cause events such as the one we perform every year to be banned from public venues. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong. But, the truth is that the name Jesus is becoming more and more offensive to academics and multi-culturists and may be eventually outlawed anywhere but within a church setting. I can see the writing on the wall. Can anyone else?

 

[cantata]

That's weird. I can't see anyone complaining about someone singing Amazing Grace in public in the UK. Where do you live, KCKID?

 

[KCKID]

That's weird. I can't see anyone complaining about someone singing Amazing Grace in public in the UK. Where do you live, KCKID?

I used Amazing Grace as an example. The songs we sang recently were contemporary versions of traditional Christmas Carols ...both secular and Christian. Several people found the Jesus/God songs a turn-off as they were regarded as 'preachy'. We were not there at the venue we played to make any kind of political statements or to preach Jesus to the crowd. We were merely there to sing songs and have fun and involve our audience which, for the most part, we did accomplish.

I live in Townsville, Queensland, Australia. Since Christmas is summertime here - weird I know, I'm originally from Kansas, USA - Carols By Candlelight events are quite popular. There is definitely a move here, however, to curtail any perceived forms of preaching in public. That includes religious songs. We've never previously had any problems with the authorities regarding the singing of carols (other than being told not to preach ...not that we would) but more and more people are finding songs pertaining to Jesus/God as offensive. If there are enough 'complaints' to the City Council they may ban such events. That might be all it takes. Any time other than Christmas I doubt that we would be allowed to perform Christian songs in a public setting. Easter, maybe, but I somehow doubt it.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

I used Amazing Grace as an example. The songs we sang recently were contemporary versions of traditional Christmas Carols ...both secular and Christian. Several people found the Jesus/God songs a turn-off as they were regarded as 'preachy'. We were not there at the venue we played to make any kind of political statements or to preach Jesus to the crowd. We were merely there to sing songs and have fun and involve our audience which, for the most part, we did accomplish.

I live in Townsville, Queensland, Australia. Since Christmas is summertime here - weird I know, I'm originally from Kansas, USA - Carols By Candlelight events are quite popular. There is definitely a move here, however, to curtail any perceived forms of preaching in public. That includes religious songs. We've never previously had any problems with the authorities regarding the singing of carols (other than being told not to preach ...not that we would) but more and more people are finding songs pertaining to Jesus/God as offensive. If there are enough 'complaints' to the City Council they may ban such events. That might be all it takes. Any time other than Christmas I doubt that we would be allowed to perform Christian songs in a public setting. Easter, maybe, but I somehow doubt it.

You live in Python heaven!

 

[cantata]

How strange, KCKID. Carols get sung and played in public throughout Christmas here. And at other times, there are frequently street preachers and Christian youth "rock" bands playing in town squares (eek).

I get why music in general might annoy people enough to complain, I guess. But I would have thought the content of the lyrics was another matter. If you permit any public music then why not Christian music?

 

[lisah]

Why can't I be allowed to be prejudiced towards young people without being called a crotchety old fart?

What's wrong with being a crotchety old fart?

 

[jcook922]

That's weird. I can't see anyone complaining about someone singing Amazing Grace in public in the UK. Where do you live, KCKID?

How does it make me a racist? I already said that it doesn't matter that he's black, it matters if he's walking around like a gangbanger that I have an immediate bias against him. I live in Los Angeles ffs, my dad has been an LAPD cop for 18 years and I'm looking to get in with LAPD myself. Yes, there's bias, you know why? GUESS WHAT MOST OF THE CRIMINALS LOOK LIKE HERE?

There's trash of all colors, that was my point. I don't care if you're white, black, mexican, asian, whatever. If you look like a trashy SOB and I don't know you, odds are I'll be leaning on the fact that you ARE a trashy SOB. Said trash is what's making our teenagers dress and act like them, and it's trash that needs to be taken out.(not the teenagers necessarily, the adults who glorify lifestyles like that)

 

[stan1980]

Is jcook922 a racist?

• He doesn't like hip hop
• Doesn't like baggy trousers and back to front baseball caps
• Doesn't like unintelligible, broken English
• And even his Dad's an LAPD cop!!

No further questions, your honour!


Nah, I'm joking, don't think it makes you a racist, I think all stereotyping is wrong, but we've all done it before. I think it's best to try and treat everyone the same until you know better.

 

[jcook922]

Is jcook922 a racist?

• He doesn't like hip hop
• Doesn't like baggy trousers and back to front baseball caps
• Doesn't like unintelligible, broken English
• And even his Dad's an LAPD cop!!

No further questions, your honour!


Nah, I'm joking, don't think it makes you a racist, I think all stereotyping is wrong, but we've all done it before. I think it's best to try and treat everyone the same until you know better.

All I'm saying is some things throw up obvious flags, it doesn't mean they ARE a criminal. I just hate seeing people who dress like that, white or black, who just have that "Look at me I'm hard yo." look to them. Just attention harlots who would get humbled by a baton to the kneecaps if they decide to act on it.

 

[LittleNipper]

Excellent - so now we've moved from unabashed racism to contempt for teenagers who dress in a certain way. Words fail me.

Dressing in a certain way, means that they are trying to be certain....

 

[stan1980]

who just have that "Look at me I'm hard yo." look to them.

Just attention harlots who would get humbled by a baton to the kneecaps if they decide to act on it.

The irony is killing me!

 

[jcook922]

The irony is killing me!

Cops don't really have to act hard, it's sort of common sense that you don't screw with them. (although many do, I hate the cowboy attitude cops seem to often have)

I grew up in a neighborhood with gangs and a strong hip hop influence, I was one of the kids who dressed pretty much normal, and was an all around good kid. I think it's stupid that sagging your pants so your ass is showing apparently is a display of how hardcore and gangsta you are. I don't like it, I don't want it around me, so yeah, I am biased. Explain to me how this is wrong?

 

[stan1980]

Well good for you! It's hard to imagine you would have lived in that bad of an area though if your dad was a cop, but maybe it's different in America.

I don't really know much about you, but keep in mind, your Dad (and/or others) probably would have been some sort of influence on you, not everyone has that, if they did I'm sure they would have been as perfect as you!

 

[jcook922]

Well good for you! It's hard to imagine you would have lived in that bad of an area though if your dad was a cop, but maybe it's different in America.

I don't really know much about you, but keep in mind, your Dad (and/or others) probably would have been some sort of influence on you, not everyone has that, if they did I'm sure they would have been as perfect as you!

Oh come on Stan spare me the sarcasm, I'm not Polycarp.

I'm by no means perfect, and my Dad who I'm referring to is my step-dad who came into my life when I was 15. In my late teens he had a strong influence on what career field I wanted to go into, but I didn't grow up with him.

I'm not saying I'm going to be rude or condemning of people who dress that way, but by bias I mean that I am automatically suspicious of them. I think "Yeah, that guy is probably a gangbanger."

Maybe it's just a California thing, racism by skin color isn't very prevalent. We snobby commiefornians usually have a first impression of people based on how they look and act. To me this doesn't seem wrong as it's just that, a first impression, not a final one.

Have feminine characteristics and an emphasis on fashion? Odds are if I don't know you well enough to think otherwise, I'll think you're gay.

Wear baggy pants, talk like a gangster, and wear other things associated with the culture? Odds are I probably won't think you're necessarily a criminal, but that you're probably someone who thinks it's cool to act "gangsta".

 

[mpok1519]

much art is supposed to have shock value.

infact, the shock value within art is sometimes responsible for the dismantling of immoral social constructs and norms.

ever read a play about apartied by Athol Fugard? "Sizwe Banzi is Dead" and "The Island" are particularily good examples.

Art isn't supposed to be tasteful if it is effectively cathartic and captivating.

 

[jcook922]

much art is supposed to have shock value.

infact, the shock value within art is sometimes responsible for the dismantling of immoral social constructs and norms.

ever read a play about apartied by Athol Fugard? "Sizwe Banzi is Dead" and "The Island" are particularily good examples.

Art isn't supposed to be tasteful if it is effectively cathartic and captivating.

Not sure what you're trying to get at here, but I don't consider sagging your pants so your boxers are hanging out art. I'm sure most folk who do it don't either.