Would it be wrong for God to let everyone into Heaven?

[bhsmte]

So, you're still referring to people who reject God and Christ, but simply lead a "good" moral existence?

Correct, do you believe these people exist?

 

[Inkachu]

Very simple. If God has total sovereignty over the universe, then everything that happens must be in accordance with his grand plan. Which would necessarily include who is saved.

What if His plan is more general than that?

 

[Inkachu]

Correct, do you believe these people exist?

Of course.

 

[Inkachu]

On the first a literal reading would seem to limit it to the pentecostal/ charismatics. If I were Christian I'd be careful on that limitation, I think it can be seen to any who claim great works.

On the second perhaps a full citation will help:

Mark 9:40"For he who is not against us is for us. 41"For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Matthew 25:34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

One might argue these teach a degree of salvation by works. I'd argue that it is not the works that matter but what they show about the heart of the person who either does such works or neglects them.

I agree. The works show whether the person is a believer or not; it doesn't make them saved or unsaved.

 

[RDKirk]

It tells me this:

If one does not truly believe jesus was god and accept him as your savior, a person is doomed regardless of the life they live. Also, those who do accept jesus as god and may have lived mostly a morally bankrupt life are saved from doom.

IMO, a morally bankrupt position.

I don't really know what "truly believe jesus was god" actually means--I'm not at all sure that it was clear to all the first century Christians that "Jesus is God."

But if you just don't want to accept the key proposition that Jesus is looking for an obedient intent, not works or sacrifice, then...oh, well.

 

[WindStaff]

I agree. The works show whether the person is a believer or not; it doesn't make them saved or unsaved.

One's works is their imprint on the world. It is definitively one's influence on mankind altogether- be wary of what can become of your actions from one person to the next_

This is something faith alone believers neglect. The main thing to realize actually/
You are only as good as your works, the same as a man's word being their worth.

 

[godenver1]

Well for a start How about those who say Lord, Lord didn't we prophesy and cast out demons in your name and get told 'Depart from me I never knew you'.

Going the other direction there are verses seeming to promise salvation to those who aid the chosen. Things about a cup of cold water and things being done for the least of His being in fact done for Christ himself.

If the Christian God is real and if the common image of judgement where one might even be allowed to speak in their defense then I'll say my chances are far better than most Christians. For most Christians if asked why will speak of their works or keeping the Law. I will at least have learned one lesson well and if asked why I should enter Heaven will answer, "there is no reason at all save for Your mercy".

I don't know if you were formerly a Christian, nor do I know if you're comfortable relaying that information, but this is the second or third post in this thread, amongst numerous other posts of yours in other threads, where I am very impressed and find myself agreeing with you theologically

 

[bhsmte]

I don't really know what "truly believe jesus was god" actually means--I'm not at all sure that it was clear to all the first century Christians that "Jesus is God."

But if you just don't want to accept the key proposition that Jesus is looking for an obedient intent, not works or sacrifice, then...oh, well.

Well, there is evidence that shows early on, many did not believe that Jesus was God and this didn't become the talking points until the 2nd or 3rd century and opens up the possibility this was manufactured by the powers at be after Christianity started to gain some speed. The fact, that John (penned 70 years) after Jesus died, is the only one of the three gospels that mentions Jesus was divine and that seems to be a pretty important point for Matthew, Mark and Luke to miss, don't you think? When you add in, there are no originals of any of the gospels and only copies starting about 200 years after Jesus died, leaves open the question of how the stories changed through the decades of orally carrying on the stories and changes that may have taken place with the first available copies.

Again, it is my opinion, the basic premise of Christianity and who is doomed for simply not believing a story and ignoring the type of life one leads, is morally bankrupt.

 

[keith99]

I don't know if you were formerly a Christian, nor do I know if you're comfortable relaying that information, but this is the second or third post in this thread, amongst numerous other posts of yours in other threads, where I am very impressed and find myself agreeing with you theologically

I was. Not entirely important. I am perfectly capable of understanding Christianity from the standpoint of what the Bible says irrespective of any belief on may part.

I still have a tendency to check what the an original word in Greek or Hebrew is and not relying on some wild guess based on a word in English.

I guess it is worth pointing out that Lewis had a significant impact on me. Not a huge surprise that some other Anglicans agree with me on many points.

 

[RDKirk]

Well, there is evidence that shows early on, many did not believe that Jesus was God and this didn't become the talking points until the 2nd or 3rd century and opens up the possibility this was manufactured by the powers at be after Christianity started to gain some speed. The fact, that John (penned 70 years) after Jesus died, is the only one of the three gospels that mentions Jesus was divine and that seems to be a pretty important point for Matthew, Mark and Luke to miss, don't you think? When you add in, there are no originals of any of the gospels and only copies starting about 200 years after Jesus died, leaves open the question of how the stories changed through the decades of orally carrying on the stories and changes that may have taken place with the first available copies.

Actually, none of the gospels miss the fact of Jesus' divinity, especially as the Graeco-Romans understood "divinity." They would understand being "son of God" conferred divinity by inheritance.

Again, it is my opinion, the basic premise of Christianity and who is doomed for simply not believing a story and ignoring the type of life one leads, is morally bankrupt.

If it works for you.

 

[klibera]

Must admit that it's a good point-why God can't stop evil here on earth. It seems in the Old Testament God was more active. Today the planet is enveloped in evil. Evil has won.