Would Copy Errors in the Bible Undermine Its Credibility?

[Proselyte]

(I have posted this in 2 other forums, but they seem deader than a doornail.)

Would copy (scribe) errors undermine the Bible's credibility in anyone's eyes? I am having a debate with a fellow co-worker. Here are some links to some copy errors in the Bible: (Solomon's stalls, Ahaziah's ruling age)

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Kings8_26.htm

http://www.carm.org/diff/1Kings4_26.htm

There are a dozen more or so, but it seems there are a few scribe errors in Chronicles, Kings, Matthew etc. regarding minor details of dates or amounts.

I have read about a few more of these copyist discrepancies throughout the Bible, but no theological contradictions.

Does anyone know how far back these copyist errors go? Has anyone seen old text before the discrepancies?

 

[ETide]

(I have posted this in 2 other forums, but they seem deader than a doornail.)

Would copy (scribe) errors undermine the Bible's credibility in anyone's eyes? I am having a debate with a fellow co-worker. Here are some links to some copy errors in the Bible: (Solomon's stalls, Ahaziah's ruling age)

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Kings8_26.htm

http://www.carm.org/diff/1Kings4_26.htm

There are a dozen more or so, but it seems there are a few scribe errors in Chronicles, Kings, Matthew etc. regarding minor details of dates or amounts.

I have read about a few more of these copyist discrepancies throughout the Bible, but no theological contradictions.

Does anyone know how far back these copyist errors go? Has anyone seen old text before the discrepancies?

I would say, first of all, how are you certain that there are copy errors..? Are you a standard of the truth..?

What version or versions might you be speaking of..?

THEN, the message of the scriptures is very simple, yet vastly deep at the same time.. God's plan of redemption for His creation being the grand theme of it all.. it would basically be impossible to miss it regardless of there being copy issues.. I have read that the Jews were meticulous in their efforts concerning this, although I'm no expert.

I would simply suggest that the overall themes within the scriptures are abundant and God's word in this respect is said to be incorruptible..

It's like impossible to miss..

The credibility of the scriptures rests moreso within imo.. not externally so to speak.. but rather with its ability to speak to the heart and mind of God's creatures.. those who read the word of God with an open and honest attitude will eventually come to the point of saying..

Never man spake like this man..

 

[Proselyte]

Take a look at the passages yourself in all versions. I set out to dispel some of these copy errors, but there were many, and there seemed to be some discrepancies, just in numbers and dates.

If you can dispel the copy errors, please do. I would like that as well, but I must concede they may be present. I have found Christian websites concede these errors as well as your usual Atheist sites that announce them.

 

[Windlord]

(I have posted this in 2 other forums, but they seem deader than a doornail.)

Would copy (scribe) errors undermine the Bible's credibility in anyone's eyes? I am having a debate with a fellow co-worker. Here are some links to some copy errors in the Bible: (Solomon's stalls, Ahaziah's ruling age)

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Kings8_26.htm

http://www.carm.org/diff/1Kings4_26.htm

There are a dozen more or so, but it seems there are a few scribe errors in Chronicles, Kings, Matthew etc. regarding minor details of dates or amounts.

I have read about a few more of these copyist discrepancies throughout the Bible, but no theological contradictions.

Does anyone know how far back these copyist errors go? Has anyone seen old text before the discrepancies?

God Loves you.

Now I'm going to copy that.

God Luvs you (as much as I hate the word luv, it is so cheesy.)

Or, How about.

Christ was crucified on an Oak Cross for you.

Now the copy

Christ was crucified on a Beech Cross for you.

Because of my copy errors, did you somehow fail to understand what I'm saying?

If someone uses the copy errors to say they don't understand the message of the Bible, you might want to check their sanity.

Peace,

Windlord.

 

[Proselyte]

God Loves you.

Now I'm going to copy that.

God Luvs you (as much as I hate the word luv, it is so cheesy.)

Or, How about.

Christ was crucified on an Oak Cross for you.

Now the copy

Christ was crucified on a Beech Cross for you.

Because of my copy errors, did you somehow fail to understand what I'm saying?

If someone uses the copy errors to say they don't understand the message of the Bible, you might want to check their sanity.

Peace,

Windlord.

I'm with you. I'm ok with the copy errors. My debate partner says that with copy errors present, we can't be sure that the Bible hasn't been tampered with in other ways, be it books removed, or ideas inserted. That is what we are debating.

Is there anyone here who doesn't think there are copy errors, based on the information provided? (Having investigated it?) I would love it if there weren't copy errors, and if someone can show that, it would be well received.

 

[ETide]

I briefly looked at the first one concerning Azariah.. and if you look back at 2 Chr 21:2, it lists two sons named Azariah..

And he had brethren the sons of Jehoshaphat, Azariah, and Jehiel, and Zechariah, and Azariah, and Michael, and Shephatiah: all these were the sons of Jehoshaphat king of Israel

Again, I only looked at this briefly, although there are lots of things in effect here.. sons, stepsons.. etc etc etc..

I'm not saying that this is conclusive, although I'd be willing to say that there's some interesting things going on in here..

 

[Proselyte]

I briefly looked at the first one concerning Azariah.. and if you look back at 2 Chr 21:2, it lists two sons named Azariah..

And he had brethren the sons of Jehoshaphat, Azariah, and Jehiel, and Zechariah, and Azariah, and Michael, and Shephatiah: all these were the sons of Jehoshaphat king of Israel

Again, I only looked at this briefly, although there are lots of things in effect here.. sons, stepsons.. etc etc etc..

I'm not saying that this is conclusive, although I'd be willing to say that there's some interesting things going on in here..

Sure, that's great. There was an entire list that I was able to dispel some of. Others not. Here's another: (from infidels.org)

"Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)

MAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
zechariah 11:11-13
(nothing in Jeremiah remotely like)"

Apparently what was attributed to Jeremiah is in Zechariah.

 

[ETide]

Sure, that's great. There was an entire list that I was able to dispel some of. Others not. Here's another: (from infidels.org)

"Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)

MAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
zechariah 11:11-13
(nothing in Jeremiah remotely like)"

Apparently what was attributed to Jeremiah is in Zechariah.

I've certainly heard this one before, but it's been a long time.. let me chew on that one for awhile and I'll try to remember some of the details of this..

God Bless !

 

[ETide]

I think it has something to do with the wording.. it was SPOKEN through Jeremiah, but written in Zechariah..

 

[Proselyte]

I think it has something to do with the wording.. it was SPOKEN through Jeremiah, but written in Zechariah..

Etide, in the previous example, Ahaziah was the one in question, not Azariah.

Try the Solomon's stalls one.

Do you accept the possibility of any copy errors?

 

[ETide]

Etide, in the previous example, Ahaziah was the one in question, not Azariah.

Try the Solomon's stalls one.

Do you accept the possibility of any copy errors?

Whoops.. like I said.. it was brief..

As for accepting the possibility of copy errors.. I really don't think so. Here's why.. it would imply that I've completely exhausted a spiritual book and that I have examined every nook and cranny that there is to examine.. I'm not ready to make that claim.. are you..?

I know for sure that the word of God is living and powerful, and effectual in my life.. I'd say that I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the depths and riches contained therein.. its wealth is inexhaustible imo.. so how could I accept it as being erroneous..?

It corrects me, I wouldn't think of correcting it..

 

[Proselyte]

Whoops.. like I said.. it was brief..

As for accepting the possibility of copy errors.. I really don't think so. Here's why.. it would imply that I've completely exhausted a spiritual book and that I have examined every nook and cranny that there is to examine.. I'm not ready to make that claim.. are you..?

I know for sure that the word of God is living and powerful, and effectual in my life.. I'd say that I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the depths and riches contained therein.. its wealth is inexhaustible imo.. so how could I accept it as being erroneous..?

It corrects me, I wouldn't think of correcting it..

I also didn't want to admit copy errors in there. I don't know that we need to exhaust the entire Bible to see them. I examined passages back to back, and the wording was the same except for the variance in date, ages, or whatever it was in many cases. And Christian Theologians have studied it to, and some have admitted it.

Copy errors don't invalidate the divinity of the Bible for me. It is man who is copying the Bible, and they are fallible. At the same time, I have to understand that, and not refuse to see what's there if it is there.

 

[Aceybee]

If God dictated to us, it would be too difficult for us to understand. I guess the Bible is a somewhat diluted picture of God and his working in human life. We have to understand the human part of the process here. Yeah- the Bible might have a couple of minor discrepancies. In some cases, when scholars have tried to 'dissect' the text and try and work out if there have been changes or additions to the authors original copy, based on style/language, etc.. the copyists tended to be trying to make it clearer for their audience. Where there are errors, it seems unlikely that they were intentional.. It doesn't shake my faith in the Bible. I don't think the errors are significant for anyone who wants to believe to have serious doubts. There will always be reasons to doubt for those who want to.

 

[Quijote]

(I have posted this in 2 other forums, but they seem deader than a doornail.)

Would copy (scribe) errors undermine the Bible's credibility in anyone's eyes? I am having a debate with a fellow co-worker. Here are some links to some copy errors in the Bible: (Solomon's stalls, Ahaziah's ruling age)

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Kings8_26.htm

http://www.carm.org/diff/1Kings4_26.htm

There are a dozen more or so, but it seems there are a few scribe errors in Chronicles, Kings, Matthew etc. regarding minor details of dates or amounts.

I have read about a few more of these copyist discrepancies throughout the Bible, but no theological contradictions.

Does anyone know how far back these copyist errors go? Has anyone seen old text before the discrepancies?

There are copy errors and there are COPY ERRORS.

If a date is misprinted, or the amount of something was miscopied I don't see any problem as long as it does not affect the message of the passage in its relation w/the rest of the Bible. Now, if the error is something along the lines of changing John 1:1 from "In the begining the Word was w/God and the Word was God" to "In the begining the Word was w/God and the Word was a god" then that is a different story. (to behonest, that is a mistranslation rather than a miscopy...so it might not apply here...)

 

[Proselyte]

That's good advice Aceybee and Quijote. Thanks.