Would a Christian man date an ex-prostitute.

[Macrina]

Who *doesn't* feel that way about the opposite sex?

Anyway, I've been around too many women (and Christians at that) who are constantly commenting about guys' asses, drooling over "hotties", shamelessly going into explicit detail about male anatomy etc. Of course, Christian women are exempt from the restrictions that are put upon men. Girls can say whatever they want, but the guys can't utter a word without being reprimanded.

Maybe women are simply unable to appreciate the male form without lusting? Whenever they (Christian women of my generation) talk about a guy they find attractive, they become very graphic. Men, on the other hand, are able to appreciate the female form on many levels without always being thrown into a debauched frenzy. Most women don't seem to 'get it'... perhaps because it's something that they are unable to do. A famous, though rather secular, science fiction author once wrote that he wished women could see women as men do... not in a lesbian sense, as I understand it, but in terms of how we appreciate beauty. He has a point. Personally, I think most women would be relieved if they could see themselves through our eyes. Maybe then they would understand.

You're right, men and women spend a lot of time confusing each other and trying to come to terms with our different forms of weirdness!


I just want to go on record saying that I don't do what you're talking about in your post, and neither do my female friends. That kind of behavior is decidedly uncool and immature, regardless of gender.

 

[Niels]

while i agree with what you said here, i just don't understand what is so confusing with a person wanting someone they are attracted to and that being of importance. i mean there's no reason to second rate our desires to just accept someone with a good personality.

whether it be more importance than the personality that's up to the person and i don't think there's anyway real way of knowing but someone bluntly saying it.

I believe Macrina thinks she's ugly.

Whenever I feel down on my looks (when trying to figure out why I'm still single), I put more emphasis on wanting people to be attracted to my personality...

 

[RefinedByFire]

Am I the only one who GETS that prostitution is a job? It's not a desire of the flesh - it's a way to provide money, people!

By that line of logic, one can argue that human trafficking is also a job that provide means but we all have choices don't we? Does desperation give us permission to do wrong? I think not.

 

[Macrina]

I believe Macrina thinks she's ugly.

Whenever I feel down on my looks (when trying to figure out why I'm still single), I put more emphasis on wanting people to be attracted to my personality...

I'm not hideous. I have some disadvantages, but I'm cool with me.

The point I'm trying to make is that attraction for me comes about differently than it seems to for most people, especially men. I'm in the process of coming to understand and accept that.

 

[Im_A]

See, the thing is, you are placing "attraction" and "personality" in two distinct categories; for me, what you call "attraction" is inextricably linked to personality factors.

no, i'm putting physical attraction and personality attraction into two distinct categories. i would never date someone that i think is ugly but has a good personality because she has a good personality, and i would never date someone that is pretty but has a bad personality because she's pretty. the word "attraction" is too diverse then to categorize it into one section into my opinion.

 

[Macrina]

no, i'm putting physical attraction and personality attraction into two distinct categories. i would never date someone that i think is ugly but has a good personality because she has a good personality, and i would never date someone that is pretty but has a bad personality because she's pretty. the word "attraction" is too diverse then to categorize it into one section into my opinion.

But that's exactly my point -- for me, they aren't distinct categories!

 

[Niels]

I'm not hideous. I have some disadvantages, but I'm cool with me.

The point I'm trying to make is that attraction for me comes about differently than it seems to for most people, especially men. I'm in the process of coming to understand and accept that.

I didn't say you are... I said I believe you think you are. In the past you've seemed a bit down on yourself. If you are in fact cool with you, then I stand corrected.

Anyway, I think attraction comes about differently for different people. It's a very personal thing. Sure there are going to be trends, but those trends don't speak for everyone.

 

[jubilationtcornpone]

I think there is an important difference between one's physical appearance and one's sexual past.

The thing is, one's sexual sins are in the past. As far as God is concerned, they are gone... period. And if someone has truly abandoned those sins, then we can overlook them.

In contrast, one's physical appearance isn't in the past. It's still very much in the present. Mind you, I'm not talking specifically about overweight women here. Rather, the same principle applies to anyone -- men with tattoos, for example, or with shaggy beards, or with unkempt hair. These are all things that people have to deal with in the present.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that one's physical appearance is a measure of someone's worth. Nor am I suggesting that it's as important as one's spiritual character. Rather, I'm simply offering a reason why someone might be more willing to overlook a prospective partner's sexual history than that person's waistline. One of these factors is entirely in the past, whereas the other is not.

 

[IseekTheTruth]

I know on the oh-so-morally ideal CF we're supposed to say, "Yeah, if God forgave her we should too!"

Well the reality is that sin has real consequences. I have a good friend. She's gorgeous, she's a sweetheart, but she had sex out of wedlock and has a child. Well she just narrowed down her dating options from millions down to hundreds. I'd date her normally, but now? Well it just jumped from boyfriend to daddy... Nope... don't want a kid yet. It's sad, but it's a fact.

Similarly, prostitution (no matter how former) is a huge turn-off to me... it's only natural that a consequence of engaging in that kind of sin is that it will be a huge turnoff to otherwise interested Christian men. Does that make me a poor Chrisitian? Absolutely not. If you fall in love with someone who did that, or someone confined to a wheelchair or with mental retardation, that is totally okay, but will I SEEK OUT or be even slightly inclined to date those who've done prostitution or those that are confined to a wheelchair or that are MR? Not at all. I want a wife with that sexual naivete... I want to run and bike and swim and jump with my wife. I want to have intellectually deep conversations with her. Now I know that prostitution is a matter of character and paraplegia and retardation are morally neutral issues, but I was just using them as examples.

Let the personal attacks ensue.

 

[Im_A]

See, the thing is, you are placing "attraction" and "personality" in two distinct categories; for me, what you call "attraction" is inextricably linked to personality factors.

But that's exactly my point -- for me, they aren't distinct categories!

hey mac, i created another thread here in the Singles Forum about our discussion. we may have completely gotten off the topic of the OP. hope you don't mind. my response is there.

 

[Luther073082]

Yeah, I'm trying to come to terms with the sight-oriented thing, trying to get to a place where I can understand and accept it. I confess it still doesn't feel right to me, but I am trying to accept guys as they are and not be upset that they're different from how I'd wish.

Perhaps its compairative to women who want men with money and power. I really don't think this is something that is completly exclusive to men. I think there is some amount of shallowness in every person and the question becomes how much it rules over you.

For the record you make it sound like all we are looking for is an attractive woman and that is simpily not the case. I've seen some attractive women that I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft. pole. But I'm looking for something long term and that means I'm looking for someone that I like who they are on the inside and not on the out. Now I confess there is a certain level of unattractivness that I just don't think I could stand but its pretty low on the scale. I would say probably 90% of women my age are attractive enough for me to consider. That is perhaps my shallow part but again I don't feel like the shallowness is ruling over me to an extent to where I should be ashamed.

Now I think perhaps you are talking objectifying one's body. And you are right that is easy for us to do. For me personally this is why I belive lust is a sin. Because once I start to lust after someone, in my mind I have removed the idea that they are a person who has feelings of their own. I've always found it interesting because I could become friends with some of the most attractive women. Infact I had some very very attractive dance partners in the past. Who I practiced ballroom with 3 times a week. But the interesting thing was is that the better I came to know them the less and less I would try to think of them in any sexual manner. By knowing who they are on the inside I was actually better able to defeat lust because the lust seeks to objectify their bodies, which I can't do when I care for their feelings like I did.

You are so right. Although it's not a free license for men to go rampantly lusting, we women DO have the responsibility not to make things more difficult than they need to be for our brothers. I try to dress modestly, partly because it's just not my style to flaunt my stuff, but also because I just don't think it's appropriate for me as a Christian woman to wear something deliberately provocative. What's frustrating is that a lot of the clothes available are just... well, not modest. I have an especially difficult time finding button-up blouses which button far enough up! Even though I shop for conservative, professional clothing, most of the shirts I try on in stores, I wouldn't wear outside of the dressing room.

Well God bless you for at least trying, it is probably difficult in this day and age. Personally I've found it strange that men's clothes havn't really done anything of the sort as well. Although there have always been ways for men to flaunt wealth or supposed wealth. so perhaps that is the male equivilant. I still avoid these if at all possible. Not only because I don't have the wealth but honestly I detest vanity. You could give me 100 billion dollars right now and I will still never buy a new car in my life. Slightly used yes, but completly new never. Its too vain.

Please keep dressing modestly when you can. If they can't objectify your body then they respect you more.

 

[Luther073082]

Well the reality is that sin has real consequences. I have a good friend. She's gorgeous, she's a sweetheart, but she had sex out of wedlock and has a child. Well she just narrowed down her dating options from millions down to hundreds. I'd date her normally, but now? Well it just jumped from boyfriend to daddy... Nope... don't want a kid yet. It's sad, but it's a fact.

How old are you. Cause I'm 24 and while I don't think I really want to be a step father, for the right person I think it would be worth it. But I also like kids a lot too. Get to know the girl and the kid. You might come to love that child. It is a child, it deserves to have a father figure in its life and while thats a tough role to step into it is very pleasing to God and is a good and honorable thing. This is most certainly true.

Similarly, prostitution (no matter how former) is a huge turn-off to me... it's only natural that a consequence of engaging in that kind of sin is that it will be a huge turnoff to otherwise interested Christian men. Does that make me a poor Chrisitian? Absolutely not. If you fall in love with someone who did that, or someone confined to a wheelchair or with mental retardation, that is totally okay, but will I SEEK OUT or be even slightly inclined to date those who've done prostitution or those that are confined to a wheelchair or that are MR? Not at all. I want a wife with that sexual naivete... I want to run and bike and swim and jump with my wife. I want to have intellectually deep conversations with her. Now I know that prostitution is a matter of character and paraplegia and retardation are morally neutral issues, but I was just using them as examples.

Well you know God forgave her but I want you to consider for a moment that the problem is not her but you. And accept this with the understanding that I have said that I myself am not sure that I could date a former prostitute for some of the reasons you gave.

You see its our own ego's and jealousy that causes us to want a wife who has only been with one man and that is us. And that is compounded when this woman may have been with more men we can count. Its also our fear that perhaps we will be compaired sexually to other men she has been with, even if only in her own mind.

But above all this we must recognize that the problem really lies with us. If she has truely gone back to Christ, she will be forgiven for all those things and she can lead an otherwise normal Christian life and even be a good Christian mother and a good Christian wife.

So realistically you have to recognize that the problem with this has to do with our own emotions that live inside of us and that is ego, jealousy and fear. I would love to cast these aside so well that I could date an ex-prostitute like that. But I am only human and I am not sure if I can or not. I always say I'm not sure because I belive that love between two people is so powerful that if I really loved a woman perhaps I really could throw away my ego, jealousy and fear or at least ignore them. And I really hope that I could. Ego and Jealousy are not good things at all, and I feel like I am ruled by fear way too much in my life. Something I'm struggling with and seeking God's help is that someday I want to be able to stand up and say "I fear nothing but God himself."

 

[Photios]

You know, it's not like such a woman has it branded on her forehead. You won't know about it until you've gotten to know her well enough that she feels comfortable telling you, at which point, the question is not about "would you be attracted, " but about "are you attracted enough." Finding this out about the past of a woman I was involved with would not cause me to run, though it is certainly something to take seriously, as there will definitely be issues to deal with.

 

[Macrina]

(Before anybody jumps in and says "but I wouldn't date a pretty girl with a bad personality," that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the relative importance of the two factors: For some people, it seems that it is especially important to find someone who both looks a certain way on the outside AND is a certain way on the inside. For others, the outside is less important than for the first group.)

For the record you make it sound like all we are looking for is an attractive woman and that is simpily not the case. I've seen some attractive women that I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft. pole.

You must have missed the above comment, then. I know perfectly well that men are looking for more than physical beauty. That's not what my point is. But let's not derail this thread anymore... I've joined in the other one.

 

[Gilbertgrape]

What if the Lord has saved a woman who used to be an escort, and he cleaned her up and now she is a Christian woman who loves the Lord and follows hard on Him. Could a Chrisitan man ever see that she is a brand new creature? Just wondering. Thanks.

Yes.

You are a child of God, you love him and he loves you and your daughter.

A Godly man should feel honoured to share his life with a woman whom God loves so much. And he does love you.

You have so much to offer, You could be an inspiration to so many.

You are worthy.

 

[WendyV]

I want to share something I read today -

"Jesus consistently focused on people's centre@ Are they oriented and moving toward the center of spiritual life (love of God and people), or are they moving saway from it? This is why he shocked people by saying that many religious leaders - who observed all the recognized boundary markers - were in fact outside the kingdom of God. They were increasingly dead to love. And this is why Jesus could say theat "the tax collectoras and the prostitutes" who were a million miles away from the resligious subculture, but who had turned, converted, and oriented themselves toward God and Love, were already int he kingdom. Tnis was the great irony of his day : The "righteos" were more damaged by their righteousness that the sinners were by their sin.

The misunderstanding of true spirituality has caused immense damage to the human race. Tragically, it is possible to think we are becoming more spiritual when in fact we are only becomeing more smug and judgemental.

 

[IseekTheTruth]

Well you know God forgave her but I want you to consider for a moment that the problem is not her but you. And accept this with the understanding that I have said that I myself am not sure that I could date a former prostitute for some of the reasons you gave.

You see its our own ego's and jealousy that causes us to want a wife who has only been with one man and that is us. And that is compounded when this woman may have been with more men we can count. Its also our fear that perhaps we will be compaired sexually to other men she has been with, even if only in her own mind.

But above all this we must recognize that the problem really lies with us. If she has truely gone back to Christ, she will be forgiven for all those things and she can lead an otherwise normal Christian life and even be a good Christian mother and a good Christian wife.

So realistically you have to recognize that the problem with this has to do with our own emotions that live inside of us and that is ego, jealousy and fear. I would love to cast these aside so well that I could date an ex-prostitute like that. But I am only human and I am not sure if I can or not. I always say I'm not sure because I belive that love between two people is so powerful that if I really loved a woman perhaps I really could throw away my ego, jealousy and fear or at least ignore them. And I really hope that I could. Ego and Jealousy are not good things at all, and I feel like I am ruled by fear way too much in my life. Something I'm struggling with and seeking God's help is that someday I want to be able to stand up and say "I fear nothing but God himself."

When threads like this arise the discussion very often turns to the point where its almost as if we should seek out the type of person in question... (or we're not good Christians... obviously...).

Not only will I not seek out ex-prostitutes, I will avoid them. I'm not on an ego-trip here... My ego has nothing to do it. If God's forgiven her then we're on an equal playing field, but I still don't want to date her.

You speak of jealousy as only negative. God is a jealous God. In fact, he used jealousy to appeal to the Jews... who had become stagnant... He allowed the Gentiles to become part of his chosen.

Jealousy is not a bad thing. We serve a jealous God who wants us to be His and only His. We are made in the image of God are we not? I will be a jealous husband. I want my wife for me and me alone!!! I don't mean jealous in the sense that I'm stalking her and always needing to know where she goes, and giving guys that talk to her sideways glances, but in the sense that God is jealous.

The fact is, a lot of people (not necessarily you) on here spout theory as if its fact. I don't live in a world of theory, I live in a world of realism, pragmatism, fact...

As if we actually have perfect forgiveness and should be these saintly people walking around seeing every individual through the eyes of God. That would be great, but that's not going to happen until Heaven. It's great to be merciful, but the person I marry is the biggest decision of my life.

I have free will, and I'm well within my rights to NOT choose to date a prostitute. I don't want the baggage, and it's perfectly okay for me to not want to deal with that. If you think she can become a Christian and just shed all of that and be hunky dorey... Welcome to reality! She will have flashbacks and be dealing with the guilt/consequences of that for the rest of her life, from past poor experiences to STD outbreaks. Sin has consequences!... I'm not dating someone who's done that. That's what the thread asked and that's my answer dangit

 

[Luther073082]

Not only will I not seek out ex-prostitutes, I will avoid them. I'm not on an ego-trip here... My ego has nothing to do it. If God's forgiven her then we're on an equal playing field, but I still don't want to date her.

Well I don't blame you, you shouldn't purposefully seek out an ex-prostitute. But the thing that I've learned is that you can't alwasy control who you love. I really learned that lesson in the last month when my heart and my emotions had feelings for one woman that I don't want to have feelings for and did not care for (more then a friend) another woman who my brain and intelligence where telling me was a good match that I should stick with. The question is, if you got emotionally attacted to a woman, would you dump her if you found out about a past like that?

You speak of jealousy as only negative. God is a jealous God. In fact, he used jealousy to appeal to the Jews... who had become stagnant... He allowed the Gentiles to become part of his chosen.

Jealousy is not a bad thing. We serve a jealous God who wants us to be His and only His. We are made in the image of God are we not? I will be a jealous husband. I want my wife for me and me alone!!! I don't mean jealous in the sense that I'm stalking her and always needing to know where she goes, and giving guys that talk to her sideways glances, but in the sense that God is jealous.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres

The fact is, a lot of people (not necessarily you) on here spout theory as if its fact. I don't live in a world of theory, I live in a world of realism, pragmatism, fact...

I live in both I know what should happen in theory but I also try to consider what would happen in reality.

As if we actually have perfect forgiveness and should be these saintly people walking around seeing every individual through the eyes of God. That would be great, but that's not going to happen until Heaven. It's great to be merciful, but the person I marry is the biggest decision of my life.

I have free will, and I'm well within my rights to NOT choose to date a prostitute. I don't want the baggage, and it's perfectly okay for me to not want to deal with that. If you think she can become a Christian and just shed all of that and be hunky dorey... Welcome to reality! She will have flashbacks and be dealing with the guilt/consequences of that for the rest of her life, from past poor experiences to STD outbreaks. Sin has consequences!... I'm not dating someone who's done that. That's what the thread asked and that's my answer dangit

Just relax I am not beating you up for your answer. I myself said that I don't know if I could. But the problem is that I think the reasons could have more to do with me. The guilt is something everyone has to deal with about something. I still feel guilt about being an atheist til I was 19. And I convered to Christianity about 4 years ago! Flashbacks I'm not sure about, but if she has an STD I'm sure she would tell you. If she's not afraid to tell you that she was a prostitute in the past she shouldn't be afraid to tell you about an STD. Besides because of the nature of their activities prostitutes actually take pretty good care of themselves and require the proper protection.

Anyways I'm not beating you up for it, I'm just saying that I think for both of us the reasoning as to why we might not want to date a prostitute has more to do with us then with them. You are perfectly within your rights to not want to date or marry a former prostitute as am I but I recognize that the cause of that has to do with who I am.

But just remember, God has a sense of humor and very few people can control who they love. I don't want to have feelings for the girl I like right now but the truth is that I do and I can't force myself not to have feelings for her no more then I can force myself to have feelings for someone else.

 

[IseekTheTruth]

Anyways I'm not beating you up for it, I'm just saying that I think for both of us the reasoning as to why we might not want to date a prostitute has more to do with us then with them. You are perfectly within your rights to not want to date or marry a former prostitute as am I but I recognize that the cause of that has to do with who I am.

But just remember, God has a sense of humor and very few people can control who they love. I don't want to have feelings for the girl I like right now but the truth is that I do and I can't force myself not to have feelings for her no more then I can force myself to have feelings for someone else.

Yeah, hey, if God brings me to someone with an awesome heart for him that's also someone I'm attracted to in other ways, He can work great things, but what I'm saying is that I'm going to avoid people like that if I can.

It is true that in a sense the "problem" is me (though I see it more of a "choice" issue than a "problem" issue. Just like I choose not to date the obese because I don't want to deal with their CHF, and Diabetes, and whatever else health problems). The "problem" with her is that her sin has consequences, consequences that I choose to avoid since I can easily date someone else who does not have that problem. So, it's kind of a two-part equation... Her part being a choice she made in the past that she can no longer control and my part being a choice in the present that I can control.

 

[overit]

How old are you. Cause I'm 24 and while I don't think I really want to be a step father, for the right person I think it would be worth it. But I also like kids a lot too. Get to know the girl and the kid. You might come to love that child. It is a child, it deserves to have a father figure in its life and while thats a tough role to step into it is very pleasing to God and is a good and honorable thing. This is most certainly true.



Well you know God forgave her but I want you to consider for a moment that the problem is not her but you. And accept this with the understanding that I have said that I myself am not sure that I could date a former prostitute for some of the reasons you gave.

You see its our own ego's and jealousy that causes us to want a wife who has only been with one man and that is us. And that is compounded when this woman may have been with more men we can count. Its also our fear that perhaps we will be compaired sexually to other men she has been with, even if only in her own mind.

But above all this we must recognize that the problem really lies with us. If she has truely gone back to Christ, she will be forgiven for all those things and she can lead an otherwise normal Christian life and even be a good Christian mother and a good Christian wife.

So realistically you have to recognize that the problem with this has to do with our own emotions that live inside of us and that is ego, jealousy and fear. I would love to cast these aside so well that I could date an ex-prostitute like that. But I am only human and I am not sure if I can or not. I always say I'm not sure because I belive that love between two people is so powerful that if I really loved a woman perhaps I really could throw away my ego, jealousy and fear or at least ignore them. And I really hope that I could. Ego and Jealousy are not good things at all, and I feel like I am ruled by fear way too much in my life. Something I'm struggling with and seeking God's help is that someday I want to be able to stand up and say "I fear nothing but God himself."

Luther, that is a great and honest post. It does oh so much boil down to jealousy, insecurity and ego. And not IST, God's jealousy is NOT the same as our human ego/jelousy. Not to be compared!

I also like 1 Corinthians 13.

Everyone is in their right not to date whomever they don't like or not attracted to or traits they want to avoid also so I understand that.

For example, I would never date a man that was in the past abusive, reformed, transformed or not, not because of my ego or jealousy though (which are self-serving) but becaues of protection of myself and children which is actually smart. There's a difference between making decision on who to date based on preferences, what's best for us, what protects us and what is self-serving I guess or plainly because of our own pride/ego/judgement. I do agree that a man that DOES have issues w/a woman having had men in her past (prostitution or just lots of guys period) is better off for HER sake not to date her as he would continuosly be a thorn in her side and would possibly bring her down by being bothered by this. This is not conducive to her new walk and person.

I'm sure God would provide a man that is secure, loving, accepting and confident that he loved her with past and all and would build her walk rather then not be able to get past it. I firmly believe that those that have issues w/their dates having had a sexual past (even the virgin/non virgin debate) are best keeping to those likeminded, otherwise it would be so unfair for the forgiven party to be judged and made to feel less then becaues of hangups their date has about the past God forgave them of.