Would a Christian man date an ex-prostitute.

[Im_A]

One question: Do you folks think there is a difference in the "acceptability" of 1) a woman who had been a prostitute and repented, and 2) a man who had used the "services" of a prostitute, and has now repented? Just wondering if the two are weighted equally.

i think the two should be weighed equally personally.

Oh, and I too am interested to note that far more guys answer affirmative to this than to dating/marrying a woman who is overweight, disabled, or whatever other things we've had threads on in the past. Do these various answers not reflect how men would react in real-life situations, or is extra weight really worse than prostitution? (rhetorical question, mostly)

i think your comparing two non-comparable topics here.

a woman's past of prostitution (whether she repented or not) compared to what a man is attracted to is a bit of an unfair comparision imho.

 

[meejo]

Of course.

 

[LittleladyinChrist]

lol, to be honest with you your comments didnt hurt my feelings, but at times I can be too honest with what Im thinking, and somewhat dogmatic. This is not a personal thing, it has been like 5 years since this happened in my life. and Ive only been saved like 2 years, so its really not an insecurity, more like just a general consensus, because I had shared my testimony with someone and they seemed different after that. Not that its my problem, I believe God will provide the right man. but to be honest your comments sounded really fleshly and not spiritual, so was just observing it is all. You are right though, any sin in our life, especially sexual sins you have consequences to face. I had a daughter not as a result of this job, but still out of wedlock and not only I suffer as a result of sin but she does to. So we all have to be careful what we do, what we sow we will reap, this is for sure. God Bless you.

--Alicia

 

[Im_A]

btw mac, i wasn't trying to shootdown your point. i just don't see how it co-relates, but please feel free to explain it tho. wasn't trying to be a prude to you

 

[Macrina]

i think the two should be weighed equally personally.




i think your comparing two non-comparable topics here.

a woman's past of prostitution (whether she repented or not) compared to what a man is attracted to is a bit of an unfair comparision imho.

btw mac, i wasn't trying to shootdown your point. i just don't see how it co-relates, but please feel free to explain it tho. wasn't trying to be a prude to you

I agree that the two should be weighted equally. But sometimes "should" and "are" are two different things, so I admit I'm somewhat curious. Of course, there's a lot that would be hard to predict by people who have never been in the situation.


As far as the comparison goes, I was just musing on all the various things that we've had threads on. Weight is the most common one, I think, but I know there have been other ones, like disabilities, virgin/non-virgin, different ethnicity, age, etc.

Perhaps I am hitting the same problem which I always hit, namely, attraction for me is not primarily about appearance. See, if there was something in a man's past that concerned me, I would be less physically attracted to him. So, for ME, there is not a strong dichotomy between "appearance" factors and "past" factors, unless it is to downplay appearance.

I encounter this a lot on this board, and the confusion usually runs along gender lines, so I'm learning a lot about how men are wired. (Although it's confusing, because there are some men I respect and trust who tell me otherwise, but that's another topic.) Anyway, the way you used "attraction" in your post above sounds like what I would call "physical attraction." What I would call just plain "attraction" is a combination of factors, heavily influenced by personality, character traits, and other such non-visuals.

So from your perspective, the two (appearance vs. past sin, such as overweight vs. former prostitute) may not be at all comparable, but to me they are. If someone says, "I will date someone with X characteristic but not Y characteristic," that tells me that in that person's eyes, Y is "worse" than X in terms of desirability for dating. I hope that makes sense.



Sorry to take this on a tangent. It's just interesting to relate this to other conversations that crop up on this board with some frequency.

 

[Im_A]

I agree that the two should be weighted equally. But sometimes "should" and "are" are two different things, so I admit I'm somewhat curious. Of course, there's a lot that would be hard to predict by people who have never been in the situation.

agreed, to me they are equal. whether they should be or shouldn't be is irrelevant to me. a man that is an escort is living a disgusting life just as the woman that does.

As far as the comparison goes, I was just musing on all the various things that we've had threads on. Weight is the most common one, I think, but I know there have been other ones, like disabilities, virgin/non-virgin, different ethnicity, age, etc.

Perhaps I am hitting the same problem which I always hit, namely, attraction for me is not primarily about appearance. See, if there was something in a man's past that concerned me, I would be less physically attracted to him. So, for ME, there is not a strong dichotomy between "appearance" factors and "past" factors, unless it is to downplay appearance.

I encounter this a lot on this board, and the confusion usually runs along gender lines, so I'm learning a lot about how men are wired. (Although it's confusing, because there are some men I respect and trust who tell me otherwise, but that's another topic.) Anyway, the way you used "attraction" in your post above sounds like what I would call "physical attraction." What I would call just plain "attraction" is a combination of factors, heavily influenced by personality, character traits, and other such non-visuals.

So from your perspective, the two (appearance vs. past sin, such as overweight vs. former prostitute) may not be at all comparable, but to me they are. If someone says, "I will date someone with X characteristic but not Y characteristic," that tells me that in that person's eyes, Y is "worse" than X in terms of desirability for dating. I hope that makes sense.



Sorry to take this on a tangent. It's just interesting to relate this to other conversations that crop up on this board with some frequency.

no reason to apologize.

it may be hard for me to see the co-relation because i have dated women that are technically "overweight" before. so i don't see how they relate together, meaning in comparing to a woman being a prostitute. appearances and past mistakes are two different things to me. mere example a woman can be beautiful to me, but if she is living a life i cannot be a part of, or if a past of hers is too much for me to bear in the present day, her physical appearance is meaningless to me. i will not be a part of it.

and actions and appearances are non-relative to me. they are completely seperate of each other, not being able to be defined as "better" or "worse" than one another.

but then again maybe we are both saying the same things here, and i have a hard time seeing the co-relation because i have dated people that are technically "overweight", have disabilities of some sort and had a running around the block intimacy life.

 

[Macrina]

agreed, to me they are equal. whether they should be or shouldn't be is irrelevant to me. a man that is an escort is living a disgusting life just as the woman that does.

Oh, that's true, but what I was talking about the men who use the services of a prostitute. Say, a prostitute and one of her regular clients are both saved, repent, and go on to live a life of Christian discipleship. Will one have a harder time being accepted in a dating relationship than the other? Since both are equally redeemed, I don't think it should make a difference -- but I wonder, perhaps, if the stigma the former prostitute faces would be worse than the stigma the former client faces (whether or not it's fair).

no reason to apologize.

Well, apologizing to the OP -- I don't want to take the discussion too far off-track. On the other hand, it is relevant to talk about how this fits in with the line-up of other characteristics that play into dating decisions.

it may be hard for me to see the co-relation because i have dated women that are technically "overweight" before. so i don't see how they relate together, meaning in comparing to a woman being a prostitute. appearances and past mistakes are two different things to me. mere example a woman can be beautiful to me, but if she is living a life i cannot be a part of, or if a past of hers is too much for me to bear in the present day, her physical appearance is meaningless to me. i will not be a part of it.

and actions and appearances are non-relative to me. they are completely seperate of each other, not being able to be defined as "better" or "worse" than one another.

but then again maybe we are both saying the same things here, and i have a hard time seeing the co-relation because i have dated people that are technically "overweight", have disabilities of some sort and had a running around the block intimacy life.

Right, I get that. From what I've seen on this board, it seems that a man who would date an overweight woman is more the exception than the rule, and I've been referring to the general trend.

I'm looking at this not from a you-as-an-individual point of view, but more as a quasi-sociological analysis. Lemme come up with an example -- these are TOTALLY MADE UP statistics, so no one worry. I just want something to work with.

So let's just say that:

20% of Christian men say they would date an overweight woman
70% say they would date a former prostitute
30% say they would date a disabled woman
90% say they would date someone of another ethnicity

Again, those are totally made up, just to give us a point of discussion. If these were actual results from a poll, then we could, in a sense "compare" the four characteristics, even though each of the four is quite different from the others. Individual men would vary, but these numbers (if they were the results of an actual poll) would show where the general trends are. It doesn't mean that men sit around ranking these traits, nor does it mean that the traits are inherently similar, it just means that taken and ranked individually, the results may then be compared.

In my little hypothetical, one could look at the numbers and figure that it would be unlikely for a Christian man to be opposed to dating a woman outside of his ethnicity, but somewhat likely that a Christian man would have a problem dating a disabled woman. Now, there are assuredly some men who would only date within their own ethnicity but wouldn't have a problem dating a disabled woman, but such men would not be the statistical norm. The numbers, taken purely in a general sense, would indicate a greater likelihood in the other direction.

Or, taken another way, an overweight woman could look at these statistics and say, "wow, as a big gal with a clean sexual past, my odds in the dating pool aren't nearly as good as a slim woman with a major past." Or, the former prostitute could look at the statistics and say, "well, I shouldn't be so worried about it, because it could be worse -- I could be overweight, and that would make the chances harder."

It's an implied but not explicit value judgment when you look at it broadly like this. It doesn't explain how or why this is the case, but it describes what is.

If, as seems to be the case if men are representing themselves accurately on this forum, the issue under discussion in this thread is less likely to deter a Christian man from dating a specific woman than other issues which have been raised in the past, that's interesting. It's interesting to note what general social/cultural trends value over others.

Does that make sense?

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

Or, taken another way, an overweight woman could look at these statistics and say, "wow, as a big gal with a clean sexual past, my odds in the dating pool aren't nearly as good as a slim woman with a major past." Or, the former prostitute could look at the statistics and say, "well, I shouldn't be so worried about it, because it could be worse -- I could be overweight, and that would make the chances harder."

It's an implied but not explicit value judgment when you look at it broadly like this. It doesn't explain how or why this is the case, but it describes what is.

If, as seems to be the case if men are representing themselves accurately on this forum, the issue under discussion in this thread is less likely to deter a Christian man from dating a specific woman than other issues which have been raised in the past, that's interesting. It's interesting to note what general social/cultural trends value over others.

Does that make sense?

It makes sense to me.......

 

[Im_A]

Oh, that's true, but what I was talking about the men who use the services of a prostitute. Say, a prostitute and one of her regular clients are both saved, repent, and go on to live a life of Christian discipleship. Will one have a harder time being accepted in a dating relationship than the other? Since both are equally redeemed, I don't think it should make a difference -- but I wonder, perhaps, if the stigma the former prostitute faces would be worse than the stigma the former client faces (whether or not it's fair).




Well, apologizing to the OP -- I don't want to take the discussion too far off-track. On the other hand, it is relevant to talk about how this fits in with the line-up of other characteristics that play into dating decisions.



Right, I get that. From what I've seen on this board, it seems that a man who would date an overweight woman is more the exception than the rule, and I've been referring to the general trend.

I'm looking at this not from a you-as-an-individual point of view, but more as a quasi-sociological analysis. Lemme come up with an example -- these are TOTALLY MADE UP statistics, so no one worry. I just want something to work with.

So let's just say that:

20% of Christian men say they would date an overweight woman
70% say they would date a former prostitute
30% say they would date a disabled woman
90% say they would date someone of another ethnicity

Again, those are totally made up, just to give us a point of discussion. If these were actual results from a poll, then we could, in a sense "compare" the four characteristics, even though each of the four is quite different from the others. Individual men would vary, but these numbers (if they were the results of an actual poll) would show where the general trends are. It doesn't mean that men sit around ranking these traits, nor does it mean that the traits are inherently similar, it just means that taken and ranked individually, the results may then be compared.

In my little hypothetical, one could look at the numbers and figure that it would be unlikely for a Christian man to be opposed to dating a woman outside of his ethnicity, but somewhat likely that a Christian man would have a problem dating a disabled woman. Now, there are assuredly some men who would only date within their own ethnicity but wouldn't have a problem dating a disabled woman, but such men would not be the statistical norm. The numbers, taken purely in a general sense, would indicate a greater likelihood in the other direction.

Or, taken another way, an overweight woman could look at these statistics and say, "wow, as a big gal with a clean sexual past, my odds in the dating pool aren't nearly as good as a slim woman with a major past." Or, the former prostitute could look at the statistics and say, "well, I shouldn't be so worried about it, because it could be worse -- I could be overweight, and that would make the chances harder."

It's an implied but not explicit value judgment when you look at it broadly like this. It doesn't explain how or why this is the case, but it describes what is.

If, as seems to be the case if men are representing themselves accurately on this forum, the issue under discussion in this thread is less likely to deter a Christian man from dating a specific woman than other issues which have been raised in the past, that's interesting. It's interesting to note what general social/cultural trends value over others.

Does that make sense?

ok i think i get what your saying. the point being, that men value more appearance than lifestyle. a fat woman who lives a good life, statistically could be proven to have a lesser chance to be with a man than let's say a harlot/repentant harlot does because of her physical body.

but what i find interesting with this part of our discussion is, well i'll ask first, do you think this is wrong that men, or people in general are more concerned with or see more value in appearance than they are lifestyle?

 

[Macrina]

ok i think i get what your saying. the point being, that men value more appearance than lifestyle. a fat woman who lives a good life, statistically could be proven to have a lesser chance to be with a man than let's say a harlot/repentant harlot does because of her physical body.

but what i find interesting with this part of our discussion is, well i'll ask first, do you think this is wrong that men, or people in general are more concerned with or see more value in appearance than they are lifestyle?

To me, character is far more important than appearance.

Through this forum, I've learned that for many people, especially men, appearance holds greater value for them than it does for me.

I'm trying to accept that and just realize that such is the way that people are... but at a gut level I don't understand it and don't agree with it. For me, what a person does is going to significantly outrank what a person looks like.

(Before anybody jumps in and says "but I wouldn't date a pretty girl with a bad personality," that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the relative importance of the two factors: For some people, it seems that it is especially important to find someone who both looks a certain way on the outside AND is a certain way on the inside. For others, the outside is less important than for the first group.)

 

[LittleladyinChrist]

For me character would be number one, Godly character, looks come after. But can we blame guys, Ive heard that they are sight oriented, while women are relational oriented (hope that made sence). If a guy has good Godly character then he's apt to not date a girl for looks sake.

 

[TwistTim]

Only if we can all women ever of being motivated by the need to feel loved...... and nothing else matters to them

it's a shallow argument to say all men are shallow....


most men are sight oriented yes, but mainly because sights are there to be seen.... there are some modest women, but most aren't.... you can't not walk though a mall and see more than you bargained for.... and some of those ladies are "church girls" I've even had a discussion in church with one young lady about her shirt being unbuttoned one button to many and me having to have my head down the whole time of Sunday school so I wouldn't be looking at her woman parts..... she thought I was being a prude, I was just trying to respect her.....


women can be sight oriented too.... I've had some attracted to me in my younger days because of my looks... I wasn't a model, but was told I could have been one....I was kinda a hottie I guess... though I didn't like to think of myself that way....

on the weight/apperance issue

I would date someone who was slightly overweight, as I am.... but not significantly(75 pounds plus) overweight.... as that is unhealthy and shows a lack of respect for her own body..... unless she has some condition that caused her to gain all that weight.... and she is trying to lose some to get healthly again.....

just my thoughts....

 

[Luther073082]

Only if we can all women ever of being motivated by the need to feel loved...... and nothing else matters to them

it's a shallow argument to say all men are shallow....

Amen

most men are sight oriented yes, but mainly because sights are there to be seen.... there are some modest women, but most aren't.... you can't not walk though a mall and see more than you bargained for.... and some of those ladies are "church girls" I've even had a discussion in church with one young lady about her shirt being unbuttoned one button to many and me having to have my head down the whole time of Sunday school so I wouldn't be looking at her woman parts..... she thought I was being a prude, I was just trying to respect her.....

I'm personally getting tired of 14 year olds wearing mini-skirts to church! Sometimes I would like to say to the parent's "this is what you let your daughter wear. . . TO CHURCH." But then they would hate me and I'd get in a bunch of trouble and its not worth it. But its ridiculous none the less.

Fortunutly 14 year olds don't turn me on but I'd imagine they may be attractive to some of the teenaged guys there. When a young lady of about 19 or early 20's wears something like that I need to avert my eyes to avoid sinning in God's house. God bless them I don't think they are doing it purposefully, I think they just think they are keeping up with the latest trends I think women need to consider the unintended consequences of what they wear. Especially to church because at the mall or something I expect to see things like that. In the church its a whole different ballgame.

women can be sight oriented too.... I've had some attracted to me in my younger days because of my looks... I wasn't a model, but was told I could have been one....I was kinda a hottie I guess... though I didn't like to think of myself that way....

I know when I was younger I was turned down more then once because of my looks. Yeah sure I'm a nice guy everyone says so, but yet you'd rather be alone then seen with me.

on the weight/apperance issue

I would date someone who was slightly overweight, as I am.... but not significantly(75 pounds plus) overweight.... as that is unhealthy and shows a lack of respect for her own body..... unless she has some condition that caused her to gain all that weight.... and she is trying to lose some to get healthly again.....

just my thoughts....

Exactly! My mom is obese I mean she is at least 150 pounds overweight. She almost died of a heart attack at 55 years old. Because of the horrid condition of her heart she was in the hospital for a MONTH. She had to have 5 bypasses and she was on a resperator for 3 weeks of that month. She just didn't take care of herself as much as we tried to get her to. And while I was off on a retreat with the youth group, suddenly I get a call while we are driving back on Sunday morning with my dad telling me that mother is losing bloodpressure and things don't look too good and she may be dying. A little overweight is one thing, obese is something completly different and I think I'll pass.

BTW I'm not overweight I'm proud to say that at the last time I checked I'm actually 5 pounds under my ideal weight. I have to credit preparation for ballroom dance competition for this. Whenever I'm preparing for competition I always loose 5 pounds from when I'm not preping for comp. Guess I have a competition weight and a non-competiting weight.

 

[Macrina]

For me character would be number one, Godly character, looks come after. But can we blame guys, Ive heard that they are sight oriented, while women are relational oriented (hope that made sence). If a guy has good Godly character then he's apt to not date a girl for looks sake.

Yeah, I'm trying to come to terms with the sight-oriented thing, trying to get to a place where I can understand and accept it. I confess it still doesn't feel right to me, but I am trying to accept guys as they are and not be upset that they're different from how I'd wish.

most men are sight oriented yes, but mainly because sights are there to be seen....

You are so right. Although it's not a free license for men to go rampantly lusting, we women DO have the responsibility not to make things more difficult than they need to be for our brothers. I try to dress modestly, partly because it's just not my style to flaunt my stuff, but also because I just don't think it's appropriate for me as a Christian woman to wear something deliberately provocative. What's frustrating is that a lot of the clothes available are just... well, not modest. I have an especially difficult time finding button-up blouses which button far enough up! Even though I shop for conservative, professional clothing, most of the shirts I try on in stores, I wouldn't wear outside of the dressing room.

 

[LittleladyinChrist]

LOL, I have this same problem with skirts and shirts. some shirts i have to use a saftey pin to get the v-neck closed

 

[Macrina]

LOL, I have this same problem with skirts and shirts. some shirts i have to use a saftey pin to get the v-neck closed

I need to learn how to sew... at the very least, to add extra buttons that don't look like a kindergarten project.

I know that I'm not "responsible" for someone else's thoughts and feelings, but I'm certainly called to do my best not to make someone stumble!

Topics like this are so interesting -- they can give us insight into how "the other half" thinks, and that's some pretty fascinating stuff.

 

[LittleladyinChrist]

cool, id like to get a sowing machine myself someday, there sooo expensive.

 

[Niels]

but I am trying to accept guys as they are and not be upset that they're different from how I'd wish.

Who *doesn't* feel that way about the opposite sex?

Anyway, I've been around too many women (and Christians at that) who are constantly commenting about guys' asses, drooling over "hotties", shamelessly going into explicit detail about male anatomy etc. Of course, Christian women are exempt from the restrictions that are put upon men. Girls can say whatever they want, but the guys can't utter a word without being reprimanded.

Maybe women are simply unable to appreciate the male form without lusting? Whenever they (Christian women of my generation) talk about a guy they find attractive, they become very graphic. Men, on the other hand, are able to appreciate the female form on many levels without always being thrown into a debauched frenzy. Most women don't seem to 'get it'... perhaps because it's something that they are unable to do. A famous, though rather secular, science fiction author once wrote that he wished women could see women as men do... not in a lesbian sense, as I understand it, but in terms of how we appreciate beauty. He has a point. Personally, I think most women would be relieved if they could see themselves through our eyes. Maybe then they would understand.

 

[Im_A]

To me, character is far more important than appearance.

Through this forum, I've learned that for many people, especially men, appearance holds greater value for them than it does for me.

I'm trying to accept that and just realize that such is the way that people are... but at a gut level I don't understand it and don't agree with it. For me, what a person does is going to significantly outrank what a person looks like.

(Before anybody jumps in and says "but I wouldn't date a pretty girl with a bad personality," that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the relative importance of the two factors: For some people, it seems that it is especially important to find someone who both looks a certain way on the outside AND is a certain way on the inside. For others, the outside is less important than for the first group.)

while i agree with what you said here, i just don't understand what is so confusing with a person wanting someone they are attracted to and that being of importance. i mean there's no reason to second rate our desires to just accept someone with a good personality.

whether it be more importance than the personality that's up to the person and i don't think there's anyway real way of knowing but someone bluntly saying it.

 

[Macrina]

while i agree with what you said here, i just don't understand what is so confusing with a person wanting someone they are attracted to and that being of importance. i mean there's no reason to second rate our desires to just accept someone with a good personality.

whether it be more importance than the personality that's up to the person and i don't think there's anyway real way of knowing but someone bluntly saying it.

See, the thing is, you are placing "attraction" and "personality" in two distinct categories; for me, what you call "attraction" is inextricably linked to personality factors.