Worried for the Church...

[Michie]

Here we go with the liberal thing again. Do you really think the teachings of the RCC can be changed?

It seems to be the only topic of discussion anymore because the liberals seem to be pushing so hard for change. This is an issue and must be talked about, not scooted under the rug so that the liberals can keep pushing to change sound doctrine and replace it with false teaching with no opposition.

 

[Armoured]

That's because it's a constant 24/7 obsession in secular society.

There's never a day when you can turn on the TV without seeing it being promoted.
.

I haven't seen it even mentioned on TV i years. I suggest you stop watching gay specific TV programming if it upsets you so much.

 

[Leevo]

Because we are making it a big deal. Did Pope Francis make it a big deal? Did Jesus promise the gates of hells will not prevail against the Church? What else is a big deal within the Faith do you think?

I realize. However, good church's have fallen to this already but I think the Catholic Church will be the one to hold out the longest, hopefully endure forever. I pray this is true.

 

[Leevo]

Here we go with the liberal thing again. Do you really think the teachings of the RCC can be changed?

No, but under enough pressure, they could do something simply to appeal to the masses.

 

[Michie]

Didn't Jesus say there would be times like these? What if the Church did do something to appeal to the masses but did not change any teachings? What could they do to appeal to the masses that would be objectionable to the faith and give a bad witness? Seriously, I'm asking. What is it we are supposed to be afraid of as Catholic Christians?

No, but under enough pressure, they could do something simply to appeal to the masses.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

When Jesus returns, homosexuality will become an issue of the past.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I haven't seen it even mentioned on TV i years.

So what are you Watching? Little house on the prairie reruns? I suggest you stop spreading your hate in here by ignoring our true convictions and calling people bigots.

 

[Leevo]

Didn't Jesus say ther would be times like these? What if the Church did do something to appeal to the masses but did not change any teachings? What could they do to appeal to the masses that would be objectionable to the faith and give a bad witness? Seriously, I'm asking.

If they don't change teaching, but attempt to appeal to the masses, it could confuse what the church actually taught. If they started saying that we should embrace, even those who continue in sin and refuse to adhere to church teaching and stop casting "judgment" when all we are doing is telling them they are sinning and need to stop, then they could lead some to believe that it is acceptable. Confusing people is just as bad.

 

[Michie]

So you are afraid that the Church will give a confusing witness. Even if RCC teachings do not change. Do you feel that Pope Francis meeting a gay past student of his and his partner was wrong?

If they don't change teaching, but attempt to appeal to the masses, it could confuse what the church actually taught. If they started saying that we should embrace, even those who continue in sin and refuse to adhere to church teaching and stop casting "judgment" when all we are doing is telling them they are sinning and need to stop, then they could lead some to believe that it is acceptable.

 

[Leevo]

So you are afraid that the Church will give a confusing witness. Even if RCC teachings do not change. Do you feel that Pope Francis meeting a gay past student of his and his partner was wrong?

I don't think that it was inherently wrong, they're lifelong friends. They were once close. However, I think it could be interpreted by some as the Pope endorsing their behavior if the Pope hadn't clarified his views on homosexuality time and again in the past and even today, in fact.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Last night I had an epiphany. I always preach what condemns and not who saves. People don't want what I have because they don't see Jesus in me. Homosexuality is a sin, but we're changing no minds with how we handle it. I'm going to let my light shine, let God do the work, and they'll want what I have - Jesus.

 

[Michie]

But you see, we cannot control that. Treating all people with dignity even if we disagree is not a bad witness. It might draw people into investigating the Church into what she believes and teaches.

Trying to control what people think and any fantasies it may lead to is like trying to fight those that believe in the tooth fairy. It is important that Catholics of course discuss the issue of homosexuality but not obsess on it. It is up to us also to provide a witness to the faith as well. We should be concentrating on the big picture of the faith we practice. We are not called to be fearful because the media chooses to use their platform to weave a fairy story. Don't we know that what they are saying is possible is not possible?

I don't think that it was inherently wrong, they're lifelong friends. They were once close. However, I think it could be interpreted by some as the Pope endorsing their behavior if the Pope hadn't clarified his views on homosexuality time and again.

 

[Michie]

Amen. We must trust in the promises of God and not get distracted.

Last night I had an epiphany. I always preach what condemns and not who saves. People don't want what I have because they don't see Jesus in me. Homosexuality is a sin, but we're changing no minds with how we handle it. I'm going to let my light shine, let God do the work, and they'll want what I have - Jesus.

 

[Leevo]

But you see, we cannot control that. Treating all people with dignity even if we disagree is not a bad witness. It might draw people into investigating the Church into what she believes and teaches.

Trying to control what people think and any fantasies it may lead to is like trying to fight those that believe in the tooth fairy. It is important that Catholics of course discuss the issue of homosexuality but not obsess on it. It is up to us also to provide a witness to the faith as well. We should be concentrating on the big picture of the faith we practice. We are not called to be fearful because the media chooses to use their platform to weave a fairy story. Don't we know that what they are saying is possible is not possible?

I am all for treating people with dignity, but we have to draw the line and warn them of their sin somewhere do we not? Or should we just allow them to continue sinning, which is not love at all...?

For an example of what I am getting at: a recent poll has shown that 38% (4 in 10) of Catholics, believe that Pope Francis supports same-sex marriage. That is too large of a number. Confusion is out there and must be brought to the forefront to be dealt with.

http://publicreligion.org/research/...ic-church-and-american-politics/#.VhLqW3pVhBf

Another example, the left has given Francis nothing but flak over his meeting with Kim Davis, so much so that the Vatican is now sorry that it ever happened. They conveniently forget the part that Francis said it is a human right to have conscientious objection. Which could lead to misconceptions...

 

[Michie]

Don't get me wrong. I completely understand where you are coming from. But the point I am trying to make is we are basically ignoring the faith in favor of our fears. There comes a time you really have to trust that God has things under control. What Catholics think or the public at large thinks is due imo, to poor catechism and not teaching Catholics to fall in love and understand the faith. Which most don't. Most have never picked up a Bible. They have been taught obligation with little else. There really should be no surprise when many are duped into believing falsehoods. And that imo, is due to the culture of the Church. Which needs some changing.

I am all for treating people with dignity, but we have to draw the line and warn them of their sin somewhere do we not? Or should we just allow them to continue sinning, which is not love at all...?

For an example of what I am getting at: a recent poll has shown that 38% (4 in 10) of Catholics, believe that Pope Francis supports same-sex marriage. That is too large of a number. Confusion is out there and must be brought to the forefront to be dealt with.

http://publicreligion.org/research/...ic-church-and-american-politics/#.VhLqW3pVhBf

Another example, the left has given Francis nothing but flak over his meeting with Kim Davis, so much so that the Vatican is now sorry that it ever happened. They conveniently forget the part that Francis said it is a human right to have conscientious objection. Which could lead to misconceptions...

 

[Leevo]

Don't get me wrong. I completely understand where you are coming from. But the point I am trying to make is we are basically ignoring the faith in favor of our fears. There comes a time you really have to trust that God has things under control. What Catholics think or the public at large thinks is due imo, to poor catechism and teaching Catholics to fall in love and understand the faith. Which most don't. Most have never picked up a Bible. They have been taught obligation with little else. There really should be no surprise when many are duped into believing falsehoods. And that imo, is due to the culture of the Church. Which needs some changing.

I get where you are coming from as well. I guess all we can do really is trust in God and pray.

 

[pdudgeon]

I think it is an unhealthy obsession. If it isn't homosexuality it is liberal/ progressives versus the conservatives/ traditionalists. All come with the same issues. The faith just seems to be the vehicle to ride on like an afterthought. Is Catholicism/ Christianity really this vapid? On CF it appears so. At least when I was posting articles there was actually various things to read and discuss. I have no plans to get back into that routine but this is what we are left with? Really? This place is damn sad anymore.

at one time the liberals were content just to group together and support each other. and space was given for that purpose.
(it was the 'toe in the door' ploy, and it worked.)
things have progressed to the point that a poll was recently taken to decide whether or not to allow open discussion of the practice
on CF.
that's now water under the bridge, but the fact that CF was in such a place that it was a necessary for a poll to be taken about this,
in itself opens that door a bit more.

no, Christianity is not vapid--it's alive, and it's under attack.
and when that happens, thoughts naturally turn from the discussion of faith and practice, to affirmation and defence of that faith.

that's also why we are having a conference on the family in Rome for the next 3 weeks.

Many years ago such a conference wouldn't have been necessary, because there was widespread support within the Church itself
for the family. People were more likely to grow up with multi-general, intact families than not.
it was assumed that children going through school would live in a family setting.
Those few that didn't were in the minority.

Today the opposite is true. The family that is still together is unusual, and alternate family groupings are seen and taught as being 'normal',
a legitimate choice, and way of being a family.

So no, it's not surprising that OBOB has neded to change.

That change is not only so that we can teach that which is approved by God, but also because that Godly approval
(or disapproval as the case may be) can no longer be assumed to be recognized by those who are in the pews of our churches.

Yes, we need to afirm and even defend the teachings of the Church here.
If we don't, we run the very real risk of being overrun.

 

[Michie]

We cannot be a faith of fear. God gave us promises to cling to in times like these.

I get where you are coming from as well. I guess all we can do really is trust in God and pray.

 

[Leevo]

We cannot be a faith of fear. God gave us promises to cling to in times like these.

Amen. I often have to remind myself that God has made promised and he does not go back on them.

 

[Michie]

Yes but teaching, defending, and affirming the faith does not mean it has to be based on just certain sins. We should be celebrating our faith and continually learning it. Finding some joy and peace in it. Concentrating on building each other up and edifying one another. Not stamping each other with labels. These really are first world problems as compared to what other believers have to endure.

at one time the liberals were content just to group together and support each other. and space was given for that purpose.
(it was the 'toe in the door' ploy, and it worked.)
things have progressed to the point that a poll was recently taken to decide whether or not to allow open discussion of the practice
on CF.
that's now water under the bridge, but the fact that CF was in such a place that it was a necessity for a poll to be taken about this,
in itself opens that door a bit more.

no, Christianity is not vapid--it's alive, and it's under attack.
and when that happens, thoughts naturally turn from the discussion of faith and practice, to affirmation and defence of that faith.

that's also why we are having a conference on the family in Rome for the next 3 weeks.

Many years ago such a conference wouldn't have been necessary, because there was widespread support within the Church itself
for the family. People were more likely to grow up with multi-general, intact families than not.
it was assumed that children going through school would live in a family setting.
Those few that didn't were in the minority.

Today the opposite is true. The family that is still together is unusual, and alternate family groupings are seen and taught as being 'normal',
a legitimate choice, and way of being a family.

So no, it's not surprising that OBOB has neded to change.

That change is not only so that we can teach that which is approved by God, but also because that Godly approval
(or disapproval as the case may be) can no longer be assumed to be recognized by those who are in the pews of our churches.

Yes, we need to afirm and even defend the teachings of the Church here.
If we don't, we run the very real risk of being overrun.