World War I Great Planes

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

To acompany the WWII thread, tell your favourite bird from the first world war.

For me, my favorite is hard to say, so I'll list my very favourites.

Fokker DrI
Fokker DVIII
Fokker DVII
Pfalz DIIIa
Albatros DIII

Sopwith Camel
Se5a

Spad XIII



Okay, that is few but its hard to decide.

 

[HiredGoon]

Spad XIII

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Spad XIII

Good dive, but she glides like a brick. Probably the best crate would be the Fokker D VII since she was the most balanced plane of the war. Still, the DrI has that legendary status of being Richthofen's signature plane of his last days.

 

[wildthing]

I like the choices that Wilfred of Ivanhoe has, although a Spad is good too. Who is your favorite WWI ace??

 

[NiemandheißtBoshaftigkeit]

I can't recall the name but it was the plane of the Red Baron, his final one, the tri-plane. Also, did you know it is suspected and heavily suported that the Red Baron was killed by surface fire and not the American piolet that was accredited with his defeat. If it is proven without a doubt (close but not yet) that would mean the Baron NEVER lost a dog fight and would definantly be the best piolet of WWI.

 

[wildthing]

I think it was a Fokker triplane DrI or something like that

 

[HiredGoon]

Actually the pilot credited with shooting down von Richthofen was Roy Brown a Canadian, not American. And yes there is a good amount of evidence that von Richthofen was hit by a Vickers machine gunner on the ground about 600 yards away.

My favorite WWI ace would be the American Frank Luke of the 27th Pursuit Squadron, he flew a SPAD XIII, and was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. He is credited with shooting down 18 aircraft in 17 days, many of them balloons which were extremely hard and dangerous to shoot down because they were so heavily defended by anti-aircraft guns and airplanes.

"After having previously destroyed a number of enemy aircraft within 17 days he voluntarily started on a patrol after German observation balloons. Though pursued by 8 German planes which were protecting the enemy balloon line, he unhesitatingly attacked and shot down in flames 3 German balloons, being himself under heavy fire from ground batteries and the hostile planes. Severely wounded, he descended to within 50 meters of the ground, and flying at this low altitude near the town of Murvaux opened fire upon enemy troops, killing 6 and wounding as many more. Forced to make a landing and surrounded on all sides by the enemy, who called upon him to surrender, he drew his automatic pistol and defended himself gallantly until he fell dead from a wound in the chest." -Medal of Honor citation

"He was the most daring aviator and greatest fighter pilot of the entire war. His life is one of the brightest glories of our Air Service. He went on a rampage and shot down fourteen enemy aircraft, including ten balloons, in eight days. No other ace Britain's Bishop from Canada, France's Fonck or even the dreaded Richthofen had ever come close to that." -Edward Rickenbacker

 

[NiemandheißtBoshaftigkeit]

Actually the pilot credited with shooting down von Richthofen was Roy Brown a Canadian, not American. And yes there is a good amount of evidence that von Richthofen was hit by a Vickers machine gunner on the ground about 600 yards away.

My favorite WWI ace would be the American Frank Luke of the 27th Pursuit Squadron, he flew a SPAD XIII, and was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. He is credited with shooting down 18 aircraft in 17 days, many of them balloons which were extremely hard and dangerous to shoot down because they were so heavily defended by anti-aircraft guns and airplanes.

"After having previously destroyed a number of enemy aircraft within 17 days he voluntarily started on a patrol after German observation balloons. Though pursued by 8 German planes which were protecting the enemy balloon line, he unhesitatingly attacked and shot down in flames 3 German balloons, being himself under heavy fire from ground batteries and the hostile planes. Severely wounded, he descended to within 50 meters of the ground, and flying at this low altitude near the town of Murvaux opened fire upon enemy troops, killing 6 and wounding as many more. Forced to make a landing and surrounded on all sides by the enemy, who called upon him to surrender, he drew his automatic pistol and defended himself gallantly until he fell dead from a wound in the chest." -Medal of Honor citation

"He was the most daring aviator and greatest fighter pilot of the entire war. His life is one of the brightest glories of our Air Service. He went on a rampage and shot down fourteen enemy aircraft, including ten balloons, in eight days. No other ace Britain's Bishop from Canada, France's Fonck or even the dreaded Richthofen had ever come close to that." -Edward Rickenbacker

Sorry, my specialty isn't really WWI so I assume you are correct. Concerning Frank Luke, it sounds more like he was a foolish glory hound than a smart combatant, either that or he wanted to die.

[EDIT] So you know I am not just trying to be an *** my favorite ace was somewhat of a coward as he usually, well, I'm sure you know even better than I.

 

[HiredGoon]

Yeah, Luke wanted to die. He was always somewhat reckless, but he was good enough that he could be. His friend and wingman Wehner had recently been killed protecting Luke in a dogfight, and Luke became extremely depressed and fatalistic. On the day he died, Luke took off without orders and without permission to go attack the German observation balloon line.

Many WWI pilots suffered from depression and fatalism, including von Richthofen. His death was a result of he not obeying his own rules of engagement, because he didn't care anymore. One of his rules was to never get into a low level pursuit over enemy territory. He broke that rule and he payed for it.

 

[Existential1]

The plane taking you back home.

 

[oldrooster]

I was impressed with Hermann Goering in WW1. He did a good job at taking over the flying circus.

 

[kiwimac]

Fokker Dr.1
Albatros Triplane
Fokker DVI, DVII, DVIII
Pfalz DVII
SE5A
Sopwith Camel
Sopwith Pup
Sopwith Triplane.

Kiwimac

 

[NiemandheißtBoshaftigkeit]

Yeah, Luke wanted to die. He was always somewhat reckless, but he was good enough that he could be. His friend and wingman Wehner had recently been killed protecting Luke in a dogfight, and Luke became extremely depressed and fatalistic. On the day he died, Luke took off without orders and without permission to go attack the German observation balloon line.

Many WWI pilots suffered from depression and fatalism, including von Richthofen. His death was a result of he not obeying his own rules of engagement, because he didn't care anymore. One of his rules was to never get into a low level pursuit over enemy territory. He broke that rule and he payed for it.

yep, it's sad...

 

[Holby]

Many WWI pilots suffered from depression and fatalism, including von Richthofen. His death was a result of he not obeying his own rules of engagement, because he didn't care anymore. One of his rules was to never get into a low level pursuit over enemy territory. He broke that rule and he payed for it.

Fatigue, "not caring" is a bit unfair to the guy. He was a very calculating, careful bloke. But by 1918 Germany was run into the ground.
A flyer's number of victories does not make them the best pilot. There can never be one great. For me, Jimmy McCudden was amazing, he racked up 57 kills before stalling on takeoff with his carburettor not installed properly.
There is no best plane, either. I'm fond of the Camel, it could match the Dr1 in turning. But then, a DVII could BnZ it to pieces.
All personal preference

 

[Archivist]

I would list the Sopwith Pup as my favorite. With a top speed of of 106 mph it was fast and maneuverable. Even von Richthofen praised it, sayong ""We saw at once that the enemy airplane [the Pup] was superior to ours." It was a Sopwith Pup that made the first landing aboard a moving ship (HMS Furious) and it was extremely popular with the Fleet Air Arm.

For favorite aces what about Georges Guynemer of France, who scored 53 victories before his death in 1917. His body was never found and it became legand among French schoolchildren that he hadn't died, but had simply flown so high that he was unable to return.

 

[Holby]

Yeah, Guynemer was a special guy. Famous dogfight with Werner Voss where he let him go due to gun jam.

Though Rene Fonck was the highest scoring French ace of 75 kills, the French never accepted him. Guynemer couldn't be replaced. Though Fonck once got 5 planes in a single patrol, I believe.
Corrections welcome.

BTW, anyone play/ed Red Baron 3D?

edit: Thought I should note that ground fire on Richtofen came from Aussie gunners. They buried him with full military honours.

 

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

Well,

It just goes to show that I haven't visited the History forum in a while.

Hmm.... my favorite ace? That is a very hard question to answer. I might have to go back and read my book on all 81 aviators who were awarded the Blue Max before I answer that.

Kudos for those that mentioned that Richthofen broke his own rules of engagement by pursuing a plane over low lines.

Guynemar, Fonck, or Nungessar? Guynemar was by far the most famous. He was highly chivalrous, as noted in his duel with against Ernst Udet, not Voss. Then again, my memory could be faulty. I'll have to look it up. Fonck was exceedingly arrogant. I read years ago that if Fonck saved you in combat, you would learn to wish he had let you be shot down because he would remind you of that at every possible opportunity. I read once were he took four scouts head on and shot each one of them down before the two parties passed. It is also perhaps legend that he was such a good and cautious pilot that he never received damage from an enemy in combat. Nungessar was a wild party man who would sometimes go on patrols in his dinner suit with a serious hangover. Like Rudolph Berthune (SP?) and Lothar Von Richthofen, he was injured many times during the war.

Albert Ball was very famous during the early period of the war, 1915-1917.

On Frank Luke, I also read that being of German origin, he received a great deal of persecution as he enlisted. From what I've read, Luke was both a talented pilot and very much taken with depression and recklessness. I read once that he practiced his marksmenship by firing his Colt 45's at stationary targets while riding his motorcycle.

 

[Holby]

My bad, Udet, not Voss.

 

[HunterJon]

My favorite would have to be either the Hansa-Brandenburg W-29 or W-33 float planes. These planes did battle with the big Curtiss flying boats over the English Channel. If you see a picture of them they just seem to be ahead of their time and they were very powerful and durable aircraft.