Charles Darwin
Druidic Deist
freespirit2001 said:
Doesnt seem to go one way or the other to me...
freespirit2001 said:
Dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.... seems anti religious to me
freespirit2001 said:
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WORKS OF CARL SAGAN....
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Doesnt seem to go one way or the other to me...
Dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.... seems anti religious to me
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Religion, has a whole, and I also feel by Carl Sagan's standards...is mainly a social institution...and has hierarchies in it as well....Even every day local churches, social recognition is based on hierarchy. The image, status and the roles we have to play in the social element to achieve social acceptance and recognition is part of hierarchy...all of Carl Sagans' works have metaphors against that kind of "Hierachy" that is blinding about finding true truth within....( dragons of eden...science the candle in the dark....the characters is Contact also suggest something about his enigma about wisdom and faith...)
Faith....and personal spiritual integrity...is a whole other ball game outside of hierarchy....its our own private identity sense away from the social image we all project to others...
Psalm 51 speaks this inner person:
" Behold I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold thou desireth truth in the inward being;
therefore teach me wisdom in my secret heart." Psalm 51: 5-6
Perhaps some artists and scientists belong in the same arena together...sometimes their work is ahead of the social consciousness of the times...and its rejected big time, until the artist or the scientist dies...Then they get appreciated for their brilliance and insight. Culture differs from culture, Age differs from Age...religion and social consciousness applies here as well by 5 different factors or orientations from the social and the individual perspective: Power orientation differs...people, cultures differ in how they motivate people: Social orientation ( group pressure or the power of the individual) Goal orientation---some are more money oriented some would rather have the recogntion or the values in their skills and gifts and talents: Uncertainty orientation---some revel at challenges of the unknown---others need strong structure and routine to live correctly; Time orientations also differ from people to people...etc...this is all related to the social element and class struggles we go through, where knowledge of behavior and better skill developement helps us to cope better with life challenges....religion is not the solution as Carl Sagan suggests, but knowledge and wisdom about faith....
..."faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of the things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
Carl had to have this faith with his intelligence about the wonders of all his studies and through the messages of his work....
If you take his quotes on religion without insight into the dimentions of the wisdom and the intelligence he speaks of in his work, then you don't see the dimensions of the quality of life he speaks of......he definitely has discreet spirit of faith through his knowledge of behavior ---this is reflected through his quotes and messages...they speak for themselves about spirit....Here is a quote from the "Dragons of Eden":
" Why didst thou leave the trodden paths of men
Too soon, and with weak hands though mighty heart
Dare the unpastured dragon in his den?
Defenseless as thou wert, oh, where was then
Wisdom, the mirrored shield....? "
Percy Bysshe Shelley Adonais
_________
Carl Sagan also liked the work of Thomas Paine..."He is probably the most illustrious American Revolutionary uncommemorated by a monument in washington DC."
He also felt that Paine was closest to the kind of human "candle in the dark" that Carl Sagan tried to be.
Faith....and personal spiritual integrity...is a whole other ball game outside of hierarchy....its our own private identity sense away from the social image we all project to others...
Psalm 51 speaks this inner person:
" Behold I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold thou desireth truth in the inward being;
therefore teach me wisdom in my secret heart." Psalm 51: 5-6
Perhaps some artists and scientists belong in the same arena together...sometimes their work is ahead of the social consciousness of the times...and its rejected big time, until the artist or the scientist dies...Then they get appreciated for their brilliance and insight. Culture differs from culture, Age differs from Age...religion and social consciousness applies here as well by 5 different factors or orientations from the social and the individual perspective: Power orientation differs...people, cultures differ in how they motivate people: Social orientation ( group pressure or the power of the individual) Goal orientation---some are more money oriented some would rather have the recogntion or the values in their skills and gifts and talents: Uncertainty orientation---some revel at challenges of the unknown---others need strong structure and routine to live correctly; Time orientations also differ from people to people...etc...this is all related to the social element and class struggles we go through, where knowledge of behavior and better skill developement helps us to cope better with life challenges....religion is not the solution as Carl Sagan suggests, but knowledge and wisdom about faith....
..."faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of the things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
Carl had to have this faith with his intelligence about the wonders of all his studies and through the messages of his work....
If you take his quotes on religion without insight into the dimentions of the wisdom and the intelligence he speaks of in his work, then you don't see the dimensions of the quality of life he speaks of......he definitely has discreet spirit of faith through his knowledge of behavior ---this is reflected through his quotes and messages...they speak for themselves about spirit....Here is a quote from the "Dragons of Eden":
" Why didst thou leave the trodden paths of men
Too soon, and with weak hands though mighty heart
Dare the unpastured dragon in his den?
Defenseless as thou wert, oh, where was then
Wisdom, the mirrored shield....? "
Percy Bysshe Shelley Adonais
_________
Carl Sagan also liked the work of Thomas Paine..."He is probably the most illustrious American Revolutionary uncommemorated by a monument in washington DC."
He also felt that Paine was closest to the kind of human "candle in the dark" that Carl Sagan tried to be.
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
I don't know what your point is anymore. You were trying to attack evolution from a non-scientific point of view simply because Sagan alluded to various mythological figures in one of his works. Regardless, he IS (or rather was) an atheist and accepts the theory of evolution. I think you are both taking his quotations out of context and miscontruing their meaning because they appear to me to mean the opposite of what you think they mean. Some of the quotations you present don't even have anything to do with what you are talking about.
Oh yeah, and evolution is not equivalent to atheism.
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Paradoxes are hard to understand. If everyone in the world had to look for answer to be either black or white....people would remain without answers. Freedom and Destiny---are paradoxes---one can not go without the other. Not all answers are engraved in stone. I don't see labeling a man in his or this generation as an athiest, because he is a scientist, and all his circle of higher-ups were evolutionists, is right...A century later, people may find his work with meanings that were over-looked.....
What I mean, and I hope you could take this to heart, is---I don't see him through the eyes of any recent past or present religion. Through the eyes of ageless faith....I do see him with ageless faith ( in a living God )...I know I do see him differently from you...perhaps as much as "Wisdom" was used as a metaphor, reflected in proverbs--- I don't see him as an atheist...To me Carl Sagan...was the "Mirrored Shield of Wisdom"....The Science as the Candle in the Dark....He reflected "as a mirrored shield" would, the beliefs of evolution at the time...but paradoxally....he modeled his "values of faith" through his work and through sharing insight and knowledge of human behavior to the public... He never lost hope with the nature of man....If you label him an atheist---are you suggesting he was a Godless man?
What I mean, and I hope you could take this to heart, is---I don't see him through the eyes of any recent past or present religion. Through the eyes of ageless faith....I do see him with ageless faith ( in a living God )...I know I do see him differently from you...perhaps as much as "Wisdom" was used as a metaphor, reflected in proverbs--- I don't see him as an atheist...To me Carl Sagan...was the "Mirrored Shield of Wisdom"....The Science as the Candle in the Dark....He reflected "as a mirrored shield" would, the beliefs of evolution at the time...but paradoxally....he modeled his "values of faith" through his work and through sharing insight and knowledge of human behavior to the public... He never lost hope with the nature of man....If you label him an atheist---are you suggesting he was a Godless man?
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
He's labeled an atheist not because he was a scientist or accepted the theory of evolution. He's labeled an atheist because he WAS an atheist. Of course you act like calling him an "atheist" is an insult. By that insinuation, there is no reason to take you seriously any longer. Come back when you can start posting coherent thoughts and honest representations.
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freespirit2001, what is going on in your head? I personaly think its great that you seem to enjoy Carl Sagan, I think he was a great human. I also like your name. "freespirit". Many great writers have had a talent for metaphors, read "Thus Spoke Zarathustra". Nietzsche uses biblical metaphors galore. However he was a hardcore atheist, such as I.
I encourage you to continue to read. Knowledge is POWER!
"Of all that is written I love only what a man has written with his blood. Write with blood, and you will experience that blood is spirit...True, we love life, not because we are used to living but because we are used to loving. There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness...I would believe only in a god who could dance... Pt. I, On Reading and Writing
Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth. Thus I beg and beseech you. Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I doback to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning.
Pt. I, On the Gift-Giving Virtue, 2" Thus Spoke Zarathustra; F. Nietzsche
I encourage you to continue to read. Knowledge is POWER!
"Of all that is written I love only what a man has written with his blood. Write with blood, and you will experience that blood is spirit...True, we love life, not because we are used to living but because we are used to loving. There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness...I would believe only in a god who could dance... Pt. I, On Reading and Writing
Remain faithful to the earth, my brothers, with the power of your virtue. Let your gift-giving love and your knowledge serve the meaning of the earth. Thus I beg and beseech you. Do not let them fly away from earthly things and beat with their wings against eternal walls. Alas, there has always been so much virtue that has flown away. Lead back to the earth the virtue that flew away, as I doback to the body, back to life, that it may give the earth a meaning, a human meaning.
Pt. I, On the Gift-Giving Virtue, 2" Thus Spoke Zarathustra; F. Nietzsche
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Natro---God Bless You and Thank You!
...Your words are comforting Foolsparade...Thank You!
..." Confucius says truly, "Virtue does not remain as an abandoned orphan; it must of necessity have neighbors."
Freud in his work, "The Future of an Illusion" speaks of two twin gods....Science and Religion...which the greek names I can't print...but mean "Necessity" and "Reason":
" Religious ideas are teachings and assertions about facts and conditions of external ( or internal) reality which tells one something one has discovered for oneself and which lay claim to one's belief. Since they give us information about what is most important and interesting to us in life, they are highly prized. Anyone who knows nothing of them is very ignorant; and anyone who has added them to his knowledge may consider himself the much richer. "
" When we ask on what their claim to be believed is founded, we are met with three answers, which harmonize remarkably badly with one another. Firstly, these teachings deserve to be believed because they were already believed by our primal ancestors; secondly, we possess proofs which have been handed down to us from those same primaeval times; thirdly, IT IS FORBIDDEN TO RAISE THE QUESTION OF THEIR AUTHENTICATION AT ALL. In former days anything so presumptuous was visited with the severest penalities, and even today society looks askance to raise the question again. "
"NO, our science is no illusion. But an illusion it would be to suppose that what science cannot give us we can get elsewhere. "
I loved your quotes foolsparade!..
I am more and more perplexed about some passages about the cherubim...duality...paradoxes....some people who do not understand paradoxes...it has to be all in concrete terms when we are speaking of intangibles--- ...faith...freedom...destiny...power...love...reason and logic...the instinctive...and the intuitive...???
Do we all need eyeballs in the back of the head ? I think Freud told it like it really was way ahead of time for 'Ol Carl....
...about blood---I believe in the power of what Christ died for on the cross for our sins and for victory in Christ over the power of the grave and death....
...Your words are comforting Foolsparade...Thank You!
..." Confucius says truly, "Virtue does not remain as an abandoned orphan; it must of necessity have neighbors."
Freud in his work, "The Future of an Illusion" speaks of two twin gods....Science and Religion...which the greek names I can't print...but mean "Necessity" and "Reason":
" Religious ideas are teachings and assertions about facts and conditions of external ( or internal) reality which tells one something one has discovered for oneself and which lay claim to one's belief. Since they give us information about what is most important and interesting to us in life, they are highly prized. Anyone who knows nothing of them is very ignorant; and anyone who has added them to his knowledge may consider himself the much richer. "
" When we ask on what their claim to be believed is founded, we are met with three answers, which harmonize remarkably badly with one another. Firstly, these teachings deserve to be believed because they were already believed by our primal ancestors; secondly, we possess proofs which have been handed down to us from those same primaeval times; thirdly, IT IS FORBIDDEN TO RAISE THE QUESTION OF THEIR AUTHENTICATION AT ALL. In former days anything so presumptuous was visited with the severest penalities, and even today society looks askance to raise the question again. "
"NO, our science is no illusion. But an illusion it would be to suppose that what science cannot give us we can get elsewhere. "
I loved your quotes foolsparade!..
I am more and more perplexed about some passages about the cherubim...duality...paradoxes....some people who do not understand paradoxes...it has to be all in concrete terms when we are speaking of intangibles--- ...faith...freedom...destiny...power...love...reason and logic...the instinctive...and the intuitive...???
Do we all need eyeballs in the back of the head ? I think Freud told it like it really was way ahead of time for 'Ol Carl.......about blood---I believe in the power of what Christ died for on the cross for our sins and for victory in Christ over the power of the grave and death....
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Can't say that I have. Psychology is not a primary interest of mine - especially severely discredited psychology.
What does Freud have to do with whether Sagan or Paine were atheists?
BTW Freud was an atheist too.
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...If you have been reading this thread to gather information...Natro has quotes from Carl Sagan in his signature..... quotes from Carl Sagan and from his wife that makes good sense to me, and convinces me he was not an atheist....Where has Carl ever admitted he was an atheist? He never did, in all my readings of his work....he never did....people assumed him to be agnostic, not atheist....The leading character of the movie, "CONTACT", Ellie, who was an agnostic in the movie, assumingly mirrored Carl's own public views about religion. But I don't think Ellie could have stayed being an agnostic either, by all that happened to her through the whole story line of the movie....Here is Natro's signature:
" The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and be grateful everyday for the brief but magnificient opportunity life provides." Carl Sagan
After Carl's death:
" Didn't [Sagan] want to believe? "
She responded, " He didn't want to believe. He wanted to know. "
Ann Druyan ( Carl Sagan's Wife)
I happen to really enjoy his work, the movie, " CONTACT "...How could an atheist put such empathy and pathos into a plot of a movie, without having some understanding and appreciation for God in hisown personal life? As a scientist, he was encouraging us all to use better reasoning powers in our lives, than just going with the religious flow around us...and blind faith..
. .. ....
" The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and be grateful everyday for the brief but magnificient opportunity life provides." Carl Sagan
After Carl's death:
" Didn't [Sagan] want to believe? "
She responded, " He didn't want to believe. He wanted to know. "
Ann Druyan ( Carl Sagan's Wife)
I happen to really enjoy his work, the movie, " CONTACT "...How could an atheist put such empathy and pathos into a plot of a movie, without having some understanding and appreciation for God in hisown personal life? As a scientist, he was encouraging us all to use better reasoning powers in our lives, than just going with the religious flow around us...and blind faith..
.
.. ....
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
I would think that Sagan was closer to an agnostic than an Atheist... although if pressed on the subject, probably closer to a "weak" Atheist (I don't believe in a God) than a "strong" one (There is no God).freespirit2001 said:...If you have been reading this thread to gather information...Natro has quotes from Carl Sagan in his signature..... quotes from Carl Sagan and from his wife that makes good sense to me, and convinces me he was not an atheist....Where has Carl ever admitted he was an atheist? He never did, in all my readings of his work....he never did....people assumed him to be agnostic, not atheist....The leading character of the movie, "CONTACT", Ellie, who was an agnostic in the movie, assumingly mirrored Carl's own public views about religion. But I don't think Ellie could have stayed being an agnostic either, by all that happened to her through the whole story line of the movie....Here is Natro's signature:
" The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and be grateful everyday for the brief but magnificient opportunity life provides." Carl Sagan
After Carl's death:
" Didn't [Sagan] want to believe? "
She responded, " He didn't want to believe. He wanted to know. "
Ann Druyan ( Carl Sagan's Wife)
I happen to really enjoy his work, the movie, " CONTACT "...How could an atheist put such empathy and pathos into a plot of a movie, without having some understanding and appreciation for God in hisown personal life? As a scientist, he was encouraging us all to use better reasoning powers in our lives, than just going with the religious flow around us...and blind faith..
.
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Nathan Poe.....
...I'm a freespirit....with a lantern in my avatar....
I'm not promoting any facts about his public image...he suggests more about his personal life and beliefs in and through his work....Perhaps publically, because of the high profile social arena he was in...he was more or less an agnostic....but people naturally want to assume that....and that's what I feel he was against, making judgements like that with no credible scientific method of analyzing all the facts and information and drawing that conclusion...that's far too superfiacial an assumption for me to believe...its also blind reasoning and leads to blind faith....I'm leaning towards the facts "of the message" a scientist leaves through his work....that to me...though his public image was distorted by elements of the "social"...his inner person---reflected in his work---suggests to me Carl Sagan had an ageless and timeless faith....it was shown lovingly in the movie "Contact" most of all....
But for all concerned about the public image and the public eye...and realizing the fact he had a high profile image, and knew what was socially acceptable and expected of the scientific mind....that's would be the "assumed" answer...
But to draw a conclusion with those assumptions....that kind of thinking is called "Bounded Rationality...because "everyone" thinks like that ...therefore its true...
"Statificing" is the same way...not looking closely at all the information that is available about a topic and making judgments and drawing conclusions without all the information is not 100% credibity or wise to do...
Have you read Carl Sagan's " Baloney Detection Kit " ? It is very creative, and adds more dimensions to the basics of the scientific method and analysis....
...( God Bless You Nathan Poe! I like your quotes in your signature...)
...I'm a freespirit....with a lantern in my avatar....
I'm not promoting any facts about his public image...he suggests more about his personal life and beliefs in and through his work....Perhaps publically, because of the high profile social arena he was in...he was more or less an agnostic....but people naturally want to assume that....and that's what I feel he was against, making judgements like that with no credible scientific method of analyzing all the facts and information and drawing that conclusion...that's far too superfiacial an assumption for me to believe...its also blind reasoning and leads to blind faith....I'm leaning towards the facts "of the message" a scientist leaves through his work....that to me...though his public image was distorted by elements of the "social"...his inner person---reflected in his work---suggests to me Carl Sagan had an ageless and timeless faith....it was shown lovingly in the movie "Contact" most of all....
But for all concerned about the public image and the public eye...and realizing the fact he had a high profile image, and knew what was socially acceptable and expected of the scientific mind....that's would be the "assumed" answer...
But to draw a conclusion with those assumptions....that kind of thinking is called "Bounded Rationality...because "everyone" thinks like that ...therefore its true...
"Statificing" is the same way...not looking closely at all the information that is available about a topic and making judgments and drawing conclusions without all the information is not 100% credibity or wise to do...
Have you read Carl Sagan's " Baloney Detection Kit " ? It is very creative, and adds more dimensions to the basics of the scientific method and analysis....
...( God Bless You Nathan Poe! I like your quotes in your signature...)
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If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, p. 30
We live on a hunk of rock and metal that circles a humdrum star that is one of 400 billion other stars that make up the Milky Way Galaxy which is one of billions of other galaxies which make up a universe which may be one of a very large number, perhaps an infinite number, of other universes. That is a perspective on human life and our culture that is well worth pondering.
-- Carl Sagan
If some good evidence for life after death were announced, I'd be eager to examine it; but it would have to be real scientific data, not mere anecdote.... Better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, p. 204
I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World
Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science? ... No other human institution comes close.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, p. 30
In Italy, the Inquisition was condemning people to death until the end of the eighteenth century, and inquisitional torture was not abolished in the Catholic Church until 1816. The last bastion of support for the reality of witchcraft and the necessity of punishment has been the Christian churches.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, p. 413
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, p. 30
We live on a hunk of rock and metal that circles a humdrum star that is one of 400 billion other stars that make up the Milky Way Galaxy which is one of billions of other galaxies which make up a universe which may be one of a very large number, perhaps an infinite number, of other universes. That is a perspective on human life and our culture that is well worth pondering.
-- Carl Sagan
If some good evidence for life after death were announced, I'd be eager to examine it; but it would have to be real scientific data, not mere anecdote.... Better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, p. 204
I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World
Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science? ... No other human institution comes close.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, p. 30
In Italy, the Inquisition was condemning people to death until the end of the eighteenth century, and inquisitional torture was not abolished in the Catholic Church until 1816. The last bastion of support for the reality of witchcraft and the necessity of punishment has been the Christian churches.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World, p. 413
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....foolsparade...there's no weeping "smilies" that I can beam one over 
to you presently...but for the moment....
I know I need some long tall thoughts about actualized faith...
Why Sagan used the Genesis quote about "Cerubim" as being plural no less...and cherubim...its as if he tied a little yellow bow for the more actualized scientific inquiring believers to ask more questions....
This is from his work " The Dragon's of Eden"....
to you presently...but for the moment.... I know I need some long tall thoughts about actualized faith...
Why Sagan used the Genesis quote about "Cerubim" as being plural no less...and cherubim...its as if he tied a little yellow bow for the more actualized scientific inquiring believers to ask more questions....
This is from his work " The Dragon's of Eden"....
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I don't know why you seem to have this burning desire to believe that Sagan was a theist of some sort. But it's wrong. Sagan was an atheist, through and through, as many of the quotes in this thread have shown. Sorry, his having "empathy" proves nothing whatsoever about his theistic beliefs. He was an atheist, no matter how much you'd like him not to be.freespirit2001 said:....foolsparade...there's no weeping "smilies" that I can beam one over
I know I need some long tall thoughts about actualized faith...
Why Sagan used the Genesis quote about "Cerubim" as being plural no less...and cherubim...its as if he tied a little yellow bow for the more actualized scientific inquiring believers to ask more questions....
This is from his work " The Dragon's of Eden"....
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" YOU HAVE THE GREATEST EYES I HAVE EVER SEEN, BUT YOU STILL CAN'T SEE ME...."....A quote?
" It is the Glory of God to conceals things, but the glory of kings is search them out.
As the heavens for height, and the earth for depth,
so the minds of kings in unsearchable.
Take away the dross from the silver,
and the smith has material for a vessel;
take away the wicked from the presence of a king,
and his throne will be established in righteousness." Proverbs 25: 2-5
" A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in setting of silver....":11
" Like the cold of snow in the time of harvest
is a faithful messenger who send him,
he refreshes the spirit of his masters." :13
-------
"Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle...."
"Eye has not seen nor ear heard, neither have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him. For it is to us, God has revealed them through his Spirit, for the Spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God." I Cor. 2:9-10
------
" The fundamental fact about the Greek was that he had to use his mind. The ancient priest had said, "Thus far and no farther. We set the limits of thought." The greeks said, "All things are to be examined and called into question. There are no limits set on thought." ....Edith Hamilton
"Power is all perception. Its nonuse is its greatest use. the trick is to use the least amount of power to create the maximum amount of change. Someone who has elegance can apply power selectively, like a laser, and carefully, almost unobtrusively, so that you don't feel you're being overpowered. You feel you're being motivated." ....Diane K. Shah NY TIMES MAGAZINE
....
...There is one sure road to the access of Truth---the road of experiment, record and controlled reflection." John Dewey
" It is the Glory of God to conceals things, but the glory of kings is search them out.
As the heavens for height, and the earth for depth,
so the minds of kings in unsearchable.
Take away the dross from the silver,
and the smith has material for a vessel;
take away the wicked from the presence of a king,
and his throne will be established in righteousness." Proverbs 25: 2-5
" A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in setting of silver....":11
" Like the cold of snow in the time of harvest
is a faithful messenger who send him,
he refreshes the spirit of his masters." :13
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"Easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle...."
"Eye has not seen nor ear heard, neither have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him. For it is to us, God has revealed them through his Spirit, for the Spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God." I Cor. 2:9-10
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" The fundamental fact about the Greek was that he had to use his mind. The ancient priest had said, "Thus far and no farther. We set the limits of thought." The greeks said, "All things are to be examined and called into question. There are no limits set on thought." ....Edith Hamilton
"Power is all perception. Its nonuse is its greatest use. the trick is to use the least amount of power to create the maximum amount of change. Someone who has elegance can apply power selectively, like a laser, and carefully, almost unobtrusively, so that you don't feel you're being overpowered. You feel you're being motivated." ....Diane K. Shah NY TIMES MAGAZINE
....
...There is one sure road to the access of Truth---the road of experiment, record and controlled reflection." John Dewey
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Umm...that's nice. I suppose. What it has to do with this thread - supposedly about Sagan and his works - I've no idea.freespirit2001 said:
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- Dec 3, 2003
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...That first line in my quote...the metaphor or riddle about eyes, is what foolsparade left in his last message...I left a question for him with it....
I was referring to the works and wisdom of Carl Sagan in this quote from proverbs:
"As the heavens for height, and the earth for depth, so the mind of kings is unsearchable..."
...the quote about the greeks has to do with scientific inquiry...so does the quote about "perception".......Here are others I like about scutiny and skepticism....I would like to offer more scutiny and observation about his work at a later time...
" Skeptical scrutiny is the means in BOTH SCIENCE AND RELIGION, by which deep thought can be winnowed from DEEP NONSENSE." Carl Sagan
[Palmer Joss in Carl Sagan's "CONTACT"]:
" My faith is strong. I don't need proofs, but everytime a new fact comes along it simply confirms my faith."
I was referring to the works and wisdom of Carl Sagan in this quote from proverbs:
"As the heavens for height, and the earth for depth, so the mind of kings is unsearchable..."
...the quote about the greeks has to do with scientific inquiry...so does the quote about "perception".......Here are others I like about scutiny and skepticism....I would like to offer more scutiny and observation about his work at a later time...
" Skeptical scrutiny is the means in BOTH SCIENCE AND RELIGION, by which deep thought can be winnowed from DEEP NONSENSE." Carl Sagan
[Palmer Joss in Carl Sagan's "CONTACT"]:
" My faith is strong. I don't need proofs, but everytime a new fact comes along it simply confirms my faith."
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