Working with international clients when it is Sabbath in their time zone

[Eftsoon]

Humbly posting here, as I am not a Messianic Jew. I'm just trying to get some perspective on an issue which I can't find addressed in depth anywhere.

How should I proceed in this situation? I work remotely, and my clients are often up to 8 hours ahead. If I meeet clients at 12pm British time, those clients will be working on the Sabbath. Am I an active participant in their sin?

This seems to open up a world of complexities. I'm finding that keeping the Sabbath as an individual is fraught with challenges, let alone coordinating my Sabbath with the globe.

My instinct tells me that the ideal approach would be to approach the meeting more prayerfully than I otherwise would since it just seems logistically impossible to be mindful of global Sabbath times in a world which is so intensively connected.

Just to clarify again: I'm not working on the Sabbath, nor is anyone working for me on the Sabbath. For me it's pre-Sabbath, but time zone differences mean that it is the Sabbath for my clients.

I'm sure this has been dealt with by the Messianic Jewish community. I'm hoping there is a fairly simple answer that I'm overlooking.

 

[HARK!]

Welcome Eftsoon,

Thank you for joining us.

I try to avoid having anyone work on Shabbat.


(CLV) Ex 20:10
yet the seventh day is a sabbath to Yahweh your Elohim. You shall not do any work, you, your son or your daughter, your manservant or your maidservant, your bull, your donkey or your beast, or your sojourner who is within your gates.

My customers get angry with me sometimes, because I won't even answer business calls on Shabbat.

 

[HARK!]

This seems to open up a world of complexities. I'm finding that keeping the Sabbath as an individual is fraught with challenges, let alone coordinating my Sabbath with the globe.

You've brought up a very interesting point. I know of E-businesses, and I think I've even heard of Ebay accounts, run by Shabbat keepers, who shut down sales for Shabbat. I have a strong feeling that they haven't taken time zones into consideration.

 

[PloverWing]

How should I proceed in this situation? I work remotely, and my clients are often up to 8 hours ahead. If I meeet clients at 12pm British time, those clients will be working on the Sabbath. Am I an active participant in their sin?

How much flexibility do you have in arranging meeting times with your clients? Are you able to avoid meetings on Friday afternoons without too much disruption to your business schedule -- have your meetings earlier in the week, and do other kinds of work on Fridays? If so, it could be a good idea to avoid Friday afternoon meetings. You may have clients who are Jewish, Seventh-Day Adventist, etc., who prefer to observe the Sabbath but who are in a minority, and who feel uncomfortable refusing a Friday evening meeting.

 

[Eftsoon]

Thanks @HARK! and @PloverWing. I personally have freedom to alter my schedule. I have a session next week that I may have to cancel however. I haven't decided yet. It will have to be handled with great care. Should I cancel the classes that I've already booked? Cancelling is not a trivial matter at all

 

[PloverWing]

Should I cancel the classes that I've already booked? Cancelling is not a trivial matter at all

If it were me, I'd go ahead and hold the classes I'd already booked, but then take the Sabbath into account for future bookings.

 

[Eftsoon]

If it were me, I'd go ahead and hold the classes I'd already booked, but then take the Sabbath into account for future bookings.

Thank you for the advice. I suppose the larger question is whether we are responsible for keeping the Sabbath holy for people in other time zones? There is some discussion about this in the Orthodox Jewish community, but no consensus. I assume that the pandemic and advent of remote working in international companies will bring it into the foreground.

 

[PloverWing]

Thank you for the advice. I suppose the larger question is whether we are responsible for keeping the Sabbath holy for people in other time zones? There is some discussion about this in the Orthodox Jewish community, but no consensus. I assume that the pandemic and advent of remote working in international companies will bring it into the foreground.

I don't think of it in these terms. In general, I assume each person is responsible for their own religious observances, and my responsibility is to avoid standing in their way. I don't think it's up to me to ensure that everyone is observing the holy days of their religions, but it's also important to me that I'm not placing work obligations on other people that would interfere with their religious observances, as far as that's possible.

 

[Eftsoon]

I don't think of it in these terms. In general, I assume each person is responsible for their own religious observances, and my responsibility is to avoid standing in their way. I don't think it's up to me to ensure that everyone is observing the holy days of their religions, but it's also important to me that I'm not placing work obligations on other people that would interfere with their religious observances, as far as that's possible.

I still feel that that leaves the question open as to whether we should keep our own Sabbaths holy, or whether we should be mindful of the fact that there are 24 time zones.

Allowing a client to book an appointment with me in their sabbath, doesn't impose an obligation on them.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

Humbly posting here, as I am not a Messianic Jew. I'm just trying to get some perspective on an issue which I can't find addressed in depth anywhere.

How should I proceed in this situation? I work remotely, and my clients are often up to 8 hours ahead. If I meeet clients at 12pm British time, those clients will be working on the Sabbath. Am I an active participant in their sin?

This seems to open up a world of complexities. I'm finding that keeping the Sabbath as an individual is fraught with challenges, let alone coordinating my Sabbath with the globe.

My instinct tells me that the ideal approach would be to approach the meeting more prayerfully than I otherwise would since it just seems logistically impossible to be mindful of global Sabbath times in a world which is so intensively connected.

Just to clarify again: I'm not working on the Sabbath, nor is anyone working for me on the Sabbath. For me it's pre-Sabbath, but time zone differences mean that it is the Sabbath for my clients.

I'm sure this has been dealt with by the Messianic Jewish community. I'm hoping there is a fairly simple answer that I'm overlooking.

I'm curious as to whether those clients are Sabbath keepers in the first place?

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

I'm curious as to whether those clients are Sabbath keepers in the first place?

It oughtn't matter. Those who guard Shabbat have enough precedent in Scripture to keep those they interact with from profaning her, inasmuch as it is in their power. For goodness sake, we read of Nechemyah (cf. Nechemyah 13) first warning people about profaning Shabbat and then outright shutting the gates of Yerushalayim to incoming peddlers who would not heed the warning. These people weren't his servants; that much is certain. It's obviously pretty serious, and while he issued no punishment, he certainly did not aid and abet those who profaned Shabbat.

Simply saying "I'm sorry, but I am not available from friday night until saturday night, but I am more than happy to attend to your needs once I'm back at work." would be straightforward, gives clients a clear indication that their business is important and does not encourage them to do business during Shabbat. What clients do with that information is ultimately up to them, but the conscience of the one honouring HaShem's Shabbat is clear of wrongdoing.

 

[Eftsoon]

I'm curious as to whether those clients are Sabbath keepers in the first place?

None of them are Sabbath-keeping.

 

[Eftsoon]

It oughtn't matter. Those who guard Shabbat have enough precedent in Scripture to keep those they interact with from profaning her, inasmuch as it is in their power. For goodness sake, we read of Nechemyah (cf. Nechemyah 13) first warning people about profaning Shabbat and then outright shutting the gates of Yerushalayim to incoming peddlers who would not heed the warning. These people weren't his servants; that much is certain. It's obviously pretty serious, and while he issued no punishment, he certainly did not aid and abet those who profaned Shabbat.

Simply saying "I'm sorry, but I am not available from friday night until saturday night, but I am more than happy to attend to your needs once I'm back at work." would be straightforward, gives clients a clear indication that their business is important and does not encourage them to do business during Shabbat. What clients do with that information is ultimately up to them, but the conscience of the one honouring HaShem's Shabbat is clear of wrongdoing.

Sorry, I misread your post. It helps somewhat, but what do you do when clients ignore that information and book appointments with you during their Sabbath?

 

[.Mikha'el.]

It oughtn't matter. Those who guard Shabbat have enough precedent in Scripture to keep those they interact with from profaning her, inasmuch as it is in their power. For goodness sake, we read of Nechemyah (cf. Nechemyah 13) first warning people about profaning Shabbat and then outright shutting the gates of Yerushalayim to incoming peddlers who would not heed the warning. These people weren't his servants; that much is certain. It's obviously pretty serious, and while he issued no punishment, he certainly did not aid and abet those who profaned Shabbat.

Simply saying "I'm sorry, but I am not available from friday night until saturday night, but I am more than happy to attend to your needs once I'm back at work." would be straightforward, gives clients a clear indication that their business is important and does not encourage them to do business during Shabbat. What clients do with that information is ultimately up to them, but the conscience of the one honouring HaShem's Shabbat is clear of wrongdoing.

You and I interpret things differently. My answer to the question of "am I actively participating in their sin?" would be a resounding no because they are going to be sinning anyway and what you do or not do isn't going to change that.

To me, it's a relevant question because you would only have to guard your interaction in a way that maintains your Sabbath, and what they do on that day need not be any of your concern.

 

[Eftsoon]

I'm curious as to whether those clients are Sabbath keepers in the first place?

There is an idea that there should beone global Sabbath set from Jerusalem. I have heard this expressed in some quarters. Is it a view with any support?

The idea seems to me to ignore the command to observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown. At the same time, it would prevent problems such as this. Imagine how these problems will be propounded once humanity starts colonising other planets :-D

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

You and I interpret things differently. My answer to the question of "am I actively participating in their sin?" would be a resounding no because they are going to be sinning anyway and what you do or not do isn't going to change that.

To me, it's a relevant question because you would only have to guard your interaction in a way that maintains your Sabbath, and what they do on that day need not be any of your concern.

Except, it isn't my Shabbat; it's His. The mitsvah concerning Shabbat is not written to be wholly personal. There is a responsibility to others inherent in it. It's why I abhor the "shabbos goy" practise that I have seen. Nechemyah saw the necessity and did what he could to deter a breach of Shabbat that came under his purview. Torah isn't written for the faithfully obedient to turn a blind eye to sin. If it falls under our sphere of influence, we must act, regardless of whether there is a Shabbat-keeper or not.

 

[HARK!]

You and I interpret things differently. My answer to the question of "am I actively participating in their sin?" would be a resounding no because they are going to be sinning anyway and what you do or not do isn't going to change that.

To me, it's a relevant question because you would only have to guard your interaction in a way that maintains your Sabbath, and what they do on that day need not be any of your concern.

I suspect that my livestock don't celebrate Shabbat. (I could be wrong. They haven't told me either way. )

I wouldn't even put my livestock to work on Shabbat. How much more so for a man?

 

[HARK!]

There is an idea that there should beone global Sabbath set from Jerusalem. I have heard this expressed in some quarters. Is it a view with any support?

The idea seems to me to ignore the command to observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown. At the same time, it would prevent problems such as this. Imagine how these problems will be propounded once humanity starts colonising other planets :-D

YHWH put the sun in the moon in the sky for signs. I observe his signs.

In Jerusalem, the sun set today at 6:14 pm.

In Cairo, the sun set today at 5:30 pm.

Now as Moses was leaving Egypt; which Shabbat do you suppose that he observed?

Shabbat shalom from the U.S..

 

[visionary]

If they are not sabbath keepers, it is not their sabbath keeping time. For future bookings, for your witness and conscience, I would be more careful in the scheduling..thus keeping even the edges of the Sabbath pure.

 

[Eftsoon]

Whle I thank you very very much for taking the time to respond, I don't think the issue has really been rightly understood. I have not been clear I feel.