geocajun
Priest of the holy smackrament
CrossMovement said:
here is a Catholic Encyclopedia online. can you find it in there?
www.newadvent.org/cathen/
thanks!
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CrossMovement said:then it's not the right page , sorry , But it is beetween that , I said I think , But I have read it , but don't remember the page quite well.
geocajun said:
CrossMovement said:I can't type the page , can you tell me where can I type the page I want to search ??
geocajun said:In the upper left hand corner there is a text box. just type in the subject title such as "Sabbath" or "Sunday" and it will give you all the results.
I do not think it works on page numbers.
I am going to sleep. I will check this in the morning. goodnight!
Schae7 said:When God made the earth he didn't make Sunday through Saturday. We did that. Man named the days. And what about Leap year? "Why are there seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day, sixty minutes in an hour and sixty seconds in a minute? There is no mathematical or astronomical reason for the number of days in a week as there is for the number of days or months in a year, which are determined by the movements of the sun and moon, respectively. The Babylonians were the first civilization to have a sevenday week. They created a seven day week so they could devote one day a week to worship the seven heavenly bodies that they knew--Mercury,Venus,Mars,Jupiter,Saturn,the moon and the sun. Later in history, other cultures had weeks varying in length from four to ten days, depending on the frequency of their markets. Roman farmers worked the fields for seven days and went to market on the eighth. Therfore, the Romans had an eight-day week. Our modern seven day week resulted from the spread of Christianity. In the Book of Genisis, God created the world in six days;on the seventh day (the Sabbath) He rested. The word "Sabbath" is from the Babylonian "Sabattu," a word that came into use during Jewish captivity under the Babylonians. The Jewish Sabbath is on Saturday, as was the Romans'. The Romans considered Saturday, ruled by Saturn, to be an unlucky day and thus chose it to be a day of rest. During the French Revolution in 1792, France established a ten-day week with three-week months. Each day had ten hours consisting of one hundred minutes and each minute was comprised of one hundred seconds. This system was extremely logical (as was the metric system, also established during the French Revolution). Alas, the system was used only thirteen years, until Napoleon took power and returned France to the old Gregorian system, in order to please the Pope. Regardless of the source today we all use the seven-day week. We can thank the Babylonians for the purely artificial divisions of seconds, minutes, and hours. Again, any number could have been chosen, but the Babylonians considered sixty a mystical number because no lower number could be divided by more numbers. Had the system of divisions been created recently, it would doubtless be based on a system of tens, as is the modern metric system. We have the Egyptians to thank for the crazy number of hours in a day. They divided the night up into twelve segments, corresponding with the rising of twelve different stars or constellations over the eastern horizon. They had ten divisions for daytime, representing the ten different positions of the sun, and two more divisions for dawn and dusk. This eventually became the twenty-four hour day that we are still using." This quote was taken from Don Voorhees book. The Book of Totally Useless Information. If our days and our hours are so changed how can we be sure of the day that is our Saturday is actually the Sabbath day meant to be observed? Just food for thought
thetruthseeker said:Hi Schae7,
The Catholic church itself used to keep the true Sabbath (Saturday) until it was influenced by pagan Rome to compromise. This is how we got Sunday sanctity. Sunday was set aside for sun worship in pagan Rome. Sun-day, get it? The Catholic church at that point thought that it would be easier to win pagans into the church if they switched holy days. This is the same with the idolatrous statues in the Catholic church. Some statues of the Roman gods were taken in by the Catholic church and given the names of saints.
Anyway, Jesus Himself expected Christians to be keeping the Sabbath after His death. The following is Jesus speaking about the future to His disiples:
Matthew 24:20-22 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Schae7 said:God did make the earth in 7days truthseeker. The Lords time is not our time so how are we to know the length of these days and how they relate to our current days? It is about the bible but I don't think there is anything wrong with a refrence to other sources. After all the information that the Catholic church originally observed a Saturday Sabbath certainly wasn't in the bible. I just gave a time line to the 7 day week. They Conquest in Babylon happened b.c. so it makes since that Jesus would have gone by the 7 day week. But I think you are making assumptions when you say God created the earth on a 24hr day/ 7day week. I don't think anyone has a way of measuring what Gods time was and is. The fact is that we don't know. The info I gave was history and in no way conflicted with what the bible says. Why not take that into consideration?
Please explain truthseeker, how your quote says that Jesus created the 7 day week? Where in the bible does it say this?
Tawhano said:Where in the Bible am I, a Gentile, commanded to keep the Sabbath?
If I do not keep the law and I am punished then I must be under the law right? The Bible clearly tells me I am not under the law. If you say to me it isnt because I broke the law that I am punished but that I broke the love command then you have answered the question for yourself. If I, a Gentile not having the law, in order to show my love for the Lord set aside Sunday to worship him then that is my law that I will be judged by.
thetruthseeker said:Hi Whitehorse,
What day do you understand to be the Sabbath, Sunday or Saturday?
Don't forget the verse in between:
Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Compare that to:
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is , and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
and you get:
Old Testament (7th day) + New Testament (7th day) = 7th day (Saturday)
Thank you.
Your brother in Christ,
TheTruthSeeker
geocajun said:All Churches with valid Apostolic Succession (Catholic and EO) do consider Sunday to be the Lords Day in fullfilment of the sabbath and we take Sunday as our day of rest.
Are we then the "Mark of the beast" ?
thetruthseeker said:
Read the Old Testament and then you will better understand the New Testament Tawhano.
thetruthseeker said:
All "Christian" Gentiles are spiritual Jews, according to the Bible. Abraham is the father of all Christians. Did you not know this?
thetruthseeker said:
Again, you can read the BIble from Genesis to Revelation and not find that Jesus or any righteous person in the Bible commanded that the Sabbath (Saturday) would be changed or voided. Just one verse is all you need to prove the point. It's not there, because that was never Jesus' intention.
Whitehorse said:The book of Ephesians deals with this subject. Look at the first three chapters especially. Also Romans 11:1-24, which amplifies the parable of the vine and the branches.
As far as keeping the law, it is first important to distinguish between ceremonial laws which were fulfilled in Jesus, and moral laws that are still to be kept. One tragic error so prevalent in many churches today is that freedom from the law means feedom from obedience to the law. We haven't been freed from obedience, but from the punishment of the law, for it is written:
As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His love.John 15:9-10.
We can see from this verse that Jew or gentile does not matter, but whether or not we are under the grace and covering of Christ, and this is how we remain in Him. Although we are to keep moral law, no one is to keep ceremonial law, Jew or Gentile, because we now have freedom from this in Christ. We are not to return to a covenant of works.
As it is written: Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you. Galatians 2:3-5
Blessings.
Whitehorse Said:
The book of Ephesians deals with this subject. Look at the first three chapters especially. Also Romans 11:1-24, which amplifies the parable of the vine and the branches.
Whitehorse Said:
As far as keeping the law, it is first important to distinguish between ceremonial laws which were fulfilled in Jesus, and moral laws that are still to be kept.
Whitehorse Said:
Tawhano, I just wanted to give you a couple of verses in answer to your question about the New Testament requirement of keeping the Sabbath. I hope it helps.
Whitehorse said:I'm not sure about the validity of any document that changes an essential law of worship. Moreover, it is our obedience to the Bible rather than succession that pleases the Lord.
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