Words that Calvinists IGNORE

[nobdysfool]

Chesteron! What a pleasant surprise to run into you again. It has been quite a while. I trust that you have been well and I see that you have been busy.

Nobodysfool is actually correct. Your level of snarkiness has, indeed, reached a fever pitch that is really quite unbecoming to you. He is also quite accurate in telling you that thus far you have not presented a single argument or scripture that Calvinists have not effectively addressed before and there are many others that have probably yet to cross your mind.

My advice is to either concede defeat and become a Calvinist, giving up Catholic error in the process, or walk away in a sulk and commisserate with your buddies in the OBOB forum.

LOL! Thanks, bbbbbbb.

 

[chestertonrules]

Chesterton, you come in here all full if vitriol and snarky rejoinders, and then wonder why no one takes you seriously, or wants to spend much time talking to you. You come in here slamming and slandering Calvinism, and then get all twisted up when the Calvinists respond in kind. You bring it on yourself. It's obvious that what you expect (unrealistically) is that when you've made what you believe to be refutation of Calvinism above all reproach, that the Calvinists are supposed to slap themselves in the forehead, and say "Why didn't I think of that?", and agree that you are the greatest theologian who has ever posted on any forum, seeing how that you have 'sliced and diced" Calvinism so completely and effortlessly. You expect Calvinists to just give up without a fight at your words of "wisdom", and tell you that you're right, and they've been wrong.

That's is a fantasy that has zero chance of coming to pass, because it is founded on a bed of half-truths, and outright lies and distortions. You must think we Calvinists have never heard these arguments before, ad infinitum, from others such as you who harbor secret delusions of grandeur. I assure you, we have heard arguments you've never even thought of. And we can dismiss them just as easily as we have yours. You are on the losing end and you know it. that's why the snark level in your posts has gone up. We see that all the time.

What I've presented is the lies of Calvinism.

You can't accept scripture, so you distort it. Why go to such lengths to defend a lie?

Calvinists say that our works are meaningless because they are not ours, but God's.

The bible says:

- Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

So who is patient? Whose well doing? Whose seeking? Will God render according to his works, or according to the works of every man?

This is not complicated UNLESS your goal is to distort it.

- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

Calvinists claim that a man's works are irrelevant. Unfortunately for them, that's not what the bible teaches.

Calvinists want to absolve themselves of responsiblity so they can sin in peace, apparently.

What other reason is there for such disregard for the truth?

 

[nobdysfool]

What I've presented is the lies of Calvinism.

You can't accept scripture, so you distort it. Why go to such lengths to defend a lie?

Calvinists say that our works are meaningless because they are not ours, but God's.

The bible says:

- Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

So who is patient? Whose well doing? Whose seeking? Will God render according to his works, or according to the works of every man?

This is not complicated UNLESS your goal is to distort it.

- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

Calvinists claim that a man's works are irrelevant. Unfortunately for them, that's not what the bible teaches.

Calvinists want to absolve themselves of responsiblity so they can sin in peace, apparently.

What other reason is there for such disregard for the truth?

You obviously don't get it. Look at what you have just done. I, and many others here, will not listen to someone who insults them at every turn, who calls what they believe to be sinful, and promoting sin. Such mean-spirited words are lies, and do not lend weight to what you say. You are so blinded by RC dogma, that you cannot see anything else. My opinion of your dogma is not post-able here. Nevertheless, I speak as I'm spoken to, and my last post pretty much nailed you, as your buddy, bbbbbbb said.

You sir, are nothing but a foul wind, blowing strife and insults and vitriol at those whom Christ died for, and who believe on His name, and love Him with all their hearts. That you would say such filth about them calls the state of your own heart into question. Perhaps you need to spend a little more time in the confessional, or pay a visit to one if you haven't in a while, knowing that you believe that you must do that in order to be forgiven. Let me remind you that lying is a sin.

 

[chestertonrules]

You obviously don't get it. Look at what you have just done. I, and many others here, will not listen to someone who insults them at every turn, who calls what they believe to be sinful, and promoting sin. Such mean-spirited words are lies, and do not lend weight to what you say. You are so blinded by RC dogma, that you cannot see anything else. My opinion of your dogma is not post-able here. Nevertheless, I speak as I'm spoken to, and my last post pretty much nailed you, as your buddy, bbbbbbb said.

You sir, are nothing but a foul wind, blowing strife and insults and vitriol at those whom Christ died for, and who believe on His name, and love Him with all their hearts. That you would say such filth about them calls the state of your own heart into question. Perhaps you need to spend a little more time in the confessional, or pay a visit to one if you haven't in a while, knowing that you believe that you must do that in order to be forgiven. Let me remind you that lying is a sin.

That's your response?

Typical.

 

[nill]

chestertonrules:
Calvinists claim that a man's works are irrelevant.​

(You need to get your facts straight.)

Not true. Works matter. They are very helpful in condemnation. But they don't count for righteousness in any way before regeneration (John 1:13); afterwards, however, they are the fruit of the Spirit.

You spit in Christ's face when you claim that your works mean something towards being justified: "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose" (Galatians 2:21).

chestertonrules:
Calvinists want to absolve themselves of responsiblity so they can sin in peace, apparently.​

Also not true. John Owen wrote The Mortification of Sin, which is the best book I've ever read on the Christian's responsibility to kill sin (perhaps the best book ever written), and he was a Calvinist through and through. "Let not that man think he makes any progress in holiness who walks not over the bellies of his lusts. He who doth not kill sin in his way takes no steps towards his journey's end. He who finds not opposition from it, and who sets not himself in every particular to its mortification, is at peace with it, not dying to it" (Owen, ch. 2, sec. 6). See? A Calvinist who took sin very, very, very seriously--likely more seriously than you--just as I, a Calvinist, take grace more seriously than you.

 

[chestertonrules]

You spit in Christ's face when you claim that your works mean something towards being justified:quote]

Hmmm....Not my claim:

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by WORKS, and not by faith alone."

- Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

 

[nill]

Hmmm....Not my claim:

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by WORKS, and not by faith alone."

- Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose" (Galatians 2:21).

Then I guess you believe that Christ died for no purpose.



Side note: do you need help in learning how to use the quote button right?

 

[chestertonrules]

"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose" (Galatians 2:21).

Then I guess you believe that Christ died for no purpose.



Side note: do you need help in learning how to use the quote button right?

The Law is the Jewish Law. The bible is clear about our role in justification. God gives us the grace to follow him. We can accept it and follow or reject it.

Works is obeying the commandments of Jesus.

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by WORKS, and not by faith alone."

- Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

 

[nill]

chestertonrules:
The Law is the Jewish Law. The bible is clear about our role in justification. God gives us the grace to follow him. We can accept it and follow or reject it.​

"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose" (Galatians 2:21). You still choose to reject this, I see.

chestertonrules:
Works is obeying the commandments of Jesus.​

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). More clear Scriptures you reject, because you love to boast about your own works. I'm sure God loves to hear all your boasting before him.

 

[nobdysfool]

That's your response?

Typical.

Actually, yours is the more typical response, showing that you cannot deal with criticism of your methods and words. You spew garbage, falsehoods, and mis-information, and seem shocked that those whom you rail against would be so bold as to point out the error of what you say. I have hit home with the just criticism I have leveled at you. You can't handle it. So you pretend that it shows the weakness of my position, when in actuality, it is you who has been shown to be all hot air.

Neal is handing your head to you, as he should. As your buddy, bbbbbbb said, you should give it up, and leave the RC and become a Calvinist. In fact, I will quote his exact words:

My advice is to either concede defeat and become a Calvinist, giving up Catholic error in the process, or walk away in a sulk and commisserate with your buddies in the OBOB forum.

I think his is an excellent idea!

 

[nill]

nobdysfool to chestertonrules:
Neal is handing your head to you, as he should.​

 

[justsurfing]

Hi chesterton,

I don't understand. It makes no sense to me. We are Christians saved by grace. So, what do you think??

Have you studied the Reformed churches to see just how much charitable work is done by the Reformed believers as a faith group through their churches and denominations?? Did you realize about 70,000,000 believers, I've read, are members of Reformed confessing churches worldwide?? Do you have any idea just how much God is accomplishing to minister to the lost, the dying, the hungry, the orphans, the widows, the sick and those in prison, the poor, etc. through the Reformed churches and believers?

Do you think that Reformed Christians, churches, and denominations do not do charitable works?? Can you please study some things before saying things like that about the Reformed churches in their congregations and denominations as well as each and every Reformed believer who is born of God??

Like we have no social conscience and live to sin?? That's not consistent with the facts and why would anyone say something so out of the reality of all that God is doing through the Reformed churches, charities, and believers?

Grace and peace.

What I've presented is the lies of Calvinism.

You can't accept scripture, so you distort it. Why go to such lengths to defend a lie?

Calvinists say that our works are meaningless because they are not ours, but God's.

The bible says:

- Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

So who is patient? Whose well doing? Whose seeking? Will God render according to his works, or according to the works of every man?

This is not complicated UNLESS your goal is to distort it.

- James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

Calvinists claim that a man's works are irrelevant. Unfortunately for them, that's not what the bible teaches.

Calvinists want to absolve themselves of responsiblity so they can sin in peace, apparently.

What other reason is there for such disregard for the truth?

 

[chestertonrules]

Hi chesterton,

I don't understand. It makes no sense to me. We are Christians saved by grace. So, what do you think??

Have you studied the Reformed churches to see just how much charitable work is done by the Reformed believers as a faith group through their churches and denominations?? Did you realize about 70,000,000 believers, I've read, are members of Reformed confessing churches worldwide?? Do you have any idea just how much God is accomplishing to minister to the lost, the dying, the hungry, the orphans, the widows, the sick and those in prison, the poor, etc. through the Reformed churches and believers?

Do you think that Reformed Christians, churches, and denominations do not do charitable works?? Can you please study some things before saying things like that about the Reformed churches in their congregations and denominations as well as each and every Reformed believer who is born of God??

Like we have no social conscience and live to sin?? That's not consistent with the facts and why would anyone say something so out of the reality of all that God is doing through the Reformed churches, charities, and believers?

Grace and peace.

Calvinists, ie. Presbyterians, are ordaining gay ministers, supporting abortion rights, and losing membership.

I think Calvinists are much less socially conscious and evangelical than other Christians.

 

[chestertonrules]

nobdysfool to chestertonrules:
Neal is handing your head to you, as he should.
​

Praise from a fool...Where have I read that before??

You know the truth, Neal.

 

[heymikey80]

Calvinists, ie. Presbyterians, are ordaining gay ministers, supporting abortion rights, and losing membership.

Revealing the paucity of information about Calvinists through Catholicism.

Calvinists, ie Reformed Presbyterians, have been in the minority in the mainline Presbyterian Church (USA) since the early 1970's.

Even so the PC(USA) has sustained opposition to ordination of gay pastors despite six years of constant public attack. Meanwhile more apostolic-successionist organizations have not.

I think Calvinists are much less socially conscious and evangelical than other Christians.

I'd suspect your opinion is shared by a large number of other people who don't know what Calvinists do for others and for the Gospel. About 50% of them in fact.

 

[nobdysfool]

Calvinists, ie. Presbyterians, are ordaining gay ministers, supporting abortion rights, and losing membership.

I think Calvinists are much less socially conscious and evangelical than other Christians.

Please provide proof for this outrageous accusation. Not all Presbyterians are Calvinist. If you knew anything about Calvinism, you would know that, so once again you show your astounding ignorance of that which you fantasize about refuting.

Calvinism categorically does not accept homosexuals, or support abortion rights, and Calvinism is growing, not shrinking. True Calvinism, that is. Not the fake that you think to paint all Calvinists with. Maybe I should start pointing out the Catholic Church's sweeping under the rug and attempts to hide the major problem of gay priests, and child molesters in the church. seems to me that the Catholic Church has a bigger problem, that they don't want to really deal with, hence all the cover up and such.

So don't start throwing unfounded accusations at Calvinists, or we will detail the verifiable and documented abuses and sins of your group.

You stepped in it big-time, bub.

 

[justsurfing]

Hi chestertonrules,

Just wondering, what proof do you have that I am less socially conscious and evangelical than other Christians just because I am a Calvinist?? Sounds like a very broad-based generalization that is more about expressing hostility... and I am not going to participate in discussions that degenerate in that manner. I hope we can return to discussion of soteriology and God's Word with our words seasoned by grace?? Hope so.

Grace and peace.

I think Calvinists are much less socially conscious and evangelical than other Christians.

 

[bbbbbbb]

A pair of verses to ponder: "They said therefore to Him, 'What shall we do to work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent.'" John 6:28,29

 

[chestertonrules]

Hi chestertonrules,

Just wondering, what proof do you have that I am less socially conscious and evangelical than other Christians just because I am a Calvinist?? Sounds like a very broad-based generalization that is more about expressing hostility... and I am not going to participate in discussions that degenerate in that manner. I hope we can return to discussion of soteriology and God's Word with our words seasoned by grace?? Hope so.

Grace and peace.

I wasn't talking about you personally.


Can you name one Calvinist hospital?

How about Catholic?

Do you know of anything comparable to Catholic Charities in the Calvinist world?

You can go to any poverty stricken, disease laden hell hole in the world and you will find Catholics there sharing the love of Jesus.


The reason I bring these things us is to expose the potential danger in Calvinism which attempts to separate our works from the gospel.

We are required to good works if we are to be followers of Christ.

Denying this reality, which is what Calvinism does, is dangerous for the individual and for Christianity in general.

 

[oworm]

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