Wondering if you can give me some good reasons why masturbation is a bad thing.

[Danyc]

So, any takers?

 

[justanobserver]

this thread was moved with consensus and approval from Recovery to CP&E for discussion.

 

[Ave Maria]

Because it violates the Law of Chastity and because lust is almost always involved with masturbation.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

There is an Old Testament story which tells of a brother that married his deceased brother's wife and God wanted him to be fruitful with her. But he kept spilling the sperm outside of her. This made God very upset...


Anyhow, that is one story which may touch on this.

Besides that we always need to try to live as Jesus did and God is a God of the livinig and so we must live for life and love. Lust, as mentioned, is a sin because we covet our neighbors wife and we see people as objects. Also when you use the web to ind porn you are supporting these porn sites and encourage them which can lead others to porn and masturbation. These sites need women and men to solicit themselves and their bodies for other's lusts so we encourage others to live a sinful life.

A great paper was also written on this topic called Humane Vitae and it would definately help explain much.

Link for Humanae Vitae: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/p...ts/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

 

[jream]

its addicting and spirals in more addiction and more and more and more, the eye never has enough seeing.

 

[Dannager]

Because it violates the Law of Chastity and because lust is almost always involved with masturbation.

Sexual desire is not the same as the lust warned against in the Bible. You know this.

 

[Dannager]

There is an Old Testament story which tells of a brother that married his deceased brother's wife and God wanted him to be fruitful with her. But he kept spilling the sperm outside of her. This made God very upset...

The story you're thinking of (Onan) was not about masturbation at all but rather coitus interruptus. He was punished for disobeying God's command to father a child with his deceased brother's wife. All the anti-masturbation stuff came about much later when puritanical Christians who thought it was dirty wanted to find a way to justify their belief. So they hijacked the Onan story.

 

[Dannager]

its addicting and spirals in more addiction and more and more and more, the eye never has enough seeing.

Most people are not harmed in any way whatsoever by masturbation. 80-90% of the country's population does it, and in most cases it is beneficial - it helps to relieve stress and to identify the things one enjoys, sexually, among other things. Those who do become addicted to it have personalities that create a proclivity towards addiction, and would likely become addicted to something even if they didn't touch. The problem does not lie in masturbation, it lies in the addictive personality of the individual. If you have such a personality, you need to seek help in dealing with it.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

The story you're thinking of (Onan) was not about masturbation at all but rather coitus interruptus. He was punished for disobeying God's command to father a child with his deceased brother's wife. All the anti-masturbation stuff came about much later when puritanical Christians who thought it was dirty wanted to find a way to justify their belief. So they hijacked the Onan story.

I hope you are not condoning masturbation. As a Catholic you should know that masturbation is a Grave Sin and to do so is to fall from grace.

If you think masturbation is OK then please check with a Catechism and it will clear this falicy up for you and quick. If you do not have a Catechism then i would gladly refer you to a website that host one.

Link:http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/


Let me know if you need the location as well?


Now please do not promote the sin of masturbation since you are in full knowledge and you would only compound this sin further.

 

[Dannager]

I hope you are not condoning masturbation. As a Catholic you should know that masturbation is a Grave Sin and to do so is to fall from grace.

I know that the Catholic church takes that stance. I am, however, of the opinion that such a stance is silly, outdated and potentially harmful to the faith.

If you think masturbation is OK then please check with a Catechism and it will clear this falicy up for you and quick. If you do not have a Catechism then i would gladly refer you to a website that host one.

Link:http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/


Let me know if you need the location as well?

I'm quite familiar with our catechism. I just don't agree with some parts.

Now please do not promote the sin of masturbation since you are in full knowledge and you would only compound this sin further.

I'll refute your claims that it is sinful or harmful as long as it remains reasonable to do so. There is no sin involved, in most cases.

Now, how about you actually try to counter my arguments instead of veering into off-topic doctrinal disputes?

 

[TheEvaluator]

The Onan story is about disobedience.
Sexual desire is not the same as lust.
When you touch, you don't have to think of any particular person. Even if you do, it's still ok as long as its not someone you are not allowed to have sex with. premarital sex is not wrong.
During the old testament, men were ritually unclean if they emit seed, even when having sex with a woman. Ritually unclean is not the same as sin, because women's blood when they have periods also makes them ritually unclean, and menstruation is not a sin because it was put there by God. We also no longer have to follow that ritual.
Nothing in the Bible says anything specific against "masturbation".
"masturbation" should not be called "masturbation" because it means "to defile by hand". It hasn't be proven that it is a sin.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I know that the Catholic church takes that stance. I am, however, of the opinion that such a stance is silly, outdated and potentially harmful to the faith.
I'm quite familiar with our catechism. I just don't agree with some parts.
I'll refute your claims that it is sinful or harmful as long as it remains reasonable to do so. There is no sin involved, in most cases.

Now, how about you actually try to counter my arguments instead of veering into off-topic doctrinal disputes?

It is not open to debate. Period.

The Catholic Church has taught the same thing for 2,000 years and no 'modernist' thinking is going to change that. On the contrary I have seen an influx of Catholics back in to the Church wanting Traditionalism restored and this Liberal thinking sent out with the garbage. And you can bet God will clean house in the Catholic Church as he has done over and over. The so-called Liberals are boarderline Heretics and they will be brought back to the Bosom of Jesus' bride or they will leave.

Currently the Lberals hide in secret and keep to their cliques because they are like thiefs in the night. Once daylight shines they hide so everyone cannot see what they do. This is not the way of Jesus but his nemesis.

And since the Catholic Church still holds that masturbation is a Mortal Sin then it is. You preach to others that it is not and you make yourself Anathema.

May God Bless you with some Wisdom


*Note: for those reading this you must know that this is a communication between two Catholics and is not intended for the rest.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

The Onan story is about disobedience.
Sexual desire is not the same as lust.
When you touch, you don't have to think of any particular person. Even if you do, it's still ok as long as its not someone you are not allowed to have sex with. premarital sex is not wrong.
During the old testament, men were ritually unclean if they emit seed, even when having sex with a woman. Ritually unclean is not the same as sin, because women's blood when they have periods also makes them ritually unclean, and menstruation is not a sin because it was put there by God. We also no longer have to follow that ritual.
Nothing in the Bible says anything specific against "masturbation".
"masturbation" should not be called "masturbation" because it means "to defile by hand". It hasn't be proven that it is a sin.

Masturbation with out lust is like cake without sugar and eggs. I do not think it can work.

But also consider that a discharge is also unclean and even nocturnal emmisions which are free from sin are still considered unclean.

 

[Armistead]

One can lust for many things. Lust is not a sexual word, it means to covet, to desire something that doesn't belong to you, it's jealousy or out of control habits that control you. People lust over material things, power, ect. To lust sexually would be the desire to commit adultery or do harm against someone.

Everyone MB's sometime, if not always in their life, that's a fact.

God created the human body and also created puberty. Puberty is the process that makes us sexual at an early age. We don't have real sexual thoughts until after puberty. They come naturally after puberty without thinking. To say these sexual thoughts are lust is saying God created sin, because he created the process that makes sexual thoughts just happen. It's silly to say the natural first thoughts that come in our mind are not sin, but if we have one or think about it, then we sin. It's like the first natural sexual thought created by God is OK, but another is sin...silly.

Sexual thought, desire and MB are all processes of God created sexuality Most start MB at age 3-4, just because it feels good,


Enjoy without all the guilt. Many church leaders, such as Dr. James Dobson are now teaching MB as a normal process. They decided to teach the bible, instead of man made traditions that sex is evil. It's sad so many in the church heap loads of guilt on teens over this, like "Every mans battle" Anyone that would put their child through that over MB is the one that is sinful.

Many religions use "sex as evil" to control people. The Catholic church is a good example. A Pope dissolved all marriages not for purity, but to keep property in the church. In doing so he went against Christ, because Christ commanded not to put you spouse away except for adultery. Others taught even in marriage, sex was only for procreation...how silly. Religion has almost always got the sex question wrong.

It's totally normal. Anyone telling you it's sinful, rest assured they did it themselves.

They say it's the sin no one can defeat. Christ says there is no sin that can't be defeated. It can't be beaten, because it's not sin. It's a normal process of the body, much moreso for teens.

Just don't leave a mess for your parents to clean up.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

One can lust for many things. Lust is not a sexual word, it means to covet, to desire something that doesn't belong to you, it's jealousy or out of control habits that control you. People lust over material things, power, ect. To lust sexually would be the desire to commit adultery or do harm against someone.

Everyone MB's sometime, if not always in their life, that's a fact.

God created the human body and also created puberty. Puberty is the process that makes us sexual at an early age. We don't have real sexual thoughts until after puberty. They come naturally after puberty without thinking. To say these sexual thoughts are lust is saying God created sin, because he created the process that makes sexual thoughts just happen. It's silly to say the natural first thoughts that come in our mind are not sin, but if we have one or think about it, then we sin. It's like the first natural sexual thought created by God is OK, but another is sin...silly.

Sexual thought, desire and MB are all processes of God created sexuality Most start MB at age 3-4, just because it feels good,


Enjoy without all the guilt. Many church leaders, such as Dr. James Dobson are now teaching MB as a normal process. They decided to teach the bible, instead of man made traditions that sex is evil. It's sad so many in the church heap loads of guilt on teens over this, like "Every mans battle" Anyone that would put their child through that over MB is the one that is sinful.

Many religions use "sex as evil" to control people. The Catholic church is a good example. A Pope dissolved all marriages not for purity, but to keep property in the church. In doing so he went against Christ, because Christ commanded not to put you spouse away except for adultery. Others taught even in marriage, sex was only for procreation...how silly. Religion has almost always got the sex question wrong.

It's totally normal. Anyone telling you it's sinful, rest assured they did it themselves.

They say it's the sin no one can defeat. Christ says there is no sin that can't be defeated. It can't be beaten, because it's not sin. It's a normal process of the body, much moreso for teens.

Just don't leave a mess for your parents to clean up.

You speak as though you live in heaven where everything in human nature is good. This of course is false and I will comment further on this. But considering ignorance is bliss I can see why you might think you were in heaven.

If we look at scripture and particularly the New Testament we will see that we are born with Original Sin and with this comes a nature plagued with evil. This world is still plagued with evil. The New Testament also tells us that after baptism and the cleansing of sin (including Original Sin) we are left with Concupiscence.

Look it up if you do not believe me. After all I am Catholic and you seem to think Catholics are evil or something. By the way Catholics do not see sex as evil and actually it is seen as something Holy. It is when this is abused that it becomes evil. Sex is for Procreation alone and we are blessed with good feelings for it. But sex outside of marriage is against what Jesus taught us and that is the Word.

 

[Dannager]

It is not open to debate. Period.

I'm not debating what the Catholic church believes. I just don't agree with them. I don't expect to change the church's mind.

The Catholic Church has taught the same thing for 2,000 years and no 'modernist' thinking is going to change that.

Yes, I know. What gave you the idea that I was trying to?

On the contrary I have seen an influx of Catholics back in to the Church wanting Traditionalism restored and this Liberal thinking sent out with the garbage.

Oh no! Liberal thinking!

And you can bet God will clean house in the Catholic Church as he has done over and over.

Mmm, yes, purge the dirty liberals.

The so-called Liberals are boarderline Heretics and they will be brought back to the Bosom of Jesus' bride or they will leave.

Man, you really can't stay on topic, can you?

Currently the Lberals hide in secret and keep to their cliques because they are like thiefs in the night. Once daylight shines they hide so everyone cannot see what they do. This is not the way of Jesus but his nemesis.

Who's hiding? I don't think many people in my entire parish disagree with the stance I take.

And since the Catholic Church still holds that masturbation is a Mortal Sin then it is. You preach to others that it is not and you make yourself Anathema.

I'm sure that you believe that.

May God Bless you with some Wisdom

There are others out there in far more dire need than I.

*Note: for those reading this you must know that this is a communication between two Catholics and is not intended for the rest.

It doesn't strike you that perhaps this would have been better suited for a PM, so as not to clog this thread with off-topic discussion, especially since you don't intend for anyone else to read it?

Of course, I'm sure you thought of that, but decided against it because, in reality, you want everyone else to read it. You think that your vitriol will somehow make headway in convincing others to disregard what I'm saying, hmm?

 

[Dannager]

Masturbation with out lust is like cake without sugar and eggs. I do not think it can work.

You're not using the word "lust" properly.

But also consider that a discharge is also unclean and even nocturnal emmisions which are free from sin are still considered unclean.

Ceremonially. A woman on her period is equally unclean. You're just trying everything you can, aren't you?

 

[Dannager]

Sex is for Procreation alone

Nonsense. This idea is founded in the concept of God as petty and selfish, with rules made up for their own sake to keep humanity in line. That's not the sort of God I worship.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You're not using the word "lust" properly.

Ceremonially. A woman on her period is equally unclean. You're just trying everything you can, aren't you?

Yes a woman is unclean then as well.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Nonsense. This idea is founded in the concept of God as petty and selfish, with rules made up for their own sake to keep humanity in line. That's not the sort of God I worship.

I think we shoud go to the catechism for this.