Women's ultimate responsibility for world's sin

yeshuaslavejeff

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Whether you're right or wrong, it's a pretty refreshing explanation of the problems in the world. I've always heard it said that men make the world bad more so than women.
Do you remember who it is who says this ?

It is possibly true also, along with the op - not opposed to the op.

Men with power tend to destroy a lot of souls, and to use men and women and children like commodities to be bought and sold with no concern for their well being.
 
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redleghunter

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Wow some of these comments!

Galatians 3: NASB

26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
 
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redleghunter

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Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but didn't God tell Adam directly not to eat of the fruit. I don't think she heard it straight from God but from Adam. It's not like she slipped it in his oatmeal.
There was oatmeal back then?
 
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Blade

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Adam wasn't deceived as it is written. So? Well he may not have been deceived.. but he did sin.. He took a bite knowing he was not to. For me thats worse. The two become one.. aka MAN! Man sinned. Man handed over what God gave to us.. to Satan.

Did God call Eve a helper? Then should not Adam have been watching over her? He told God she gave me of the tree and he ate it. And Adam seemed to not take any responsibility for this lol.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Wow some of these comments!

Galatians 3: NASB

26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
????

WHO was this Scripture, Breathed by Yahuweh Himself through those He called and chose and set apart, written to ?
 
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His student

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When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.
The correct order of responsibility for sin in this world as I see it is Satan, Adam, and only thirdly Eve in a secondary sense.

Woman kind have already been judged by God for the part played by Eve in the fall of man.

Those judgments range from pain in childbirth, to subjection to men in some cases, and to limitations on their ability to function in the life of the church in certain ways.

I don't think that you or anyone else has a right (and certainly not an obligation) to add the need to suffer mildly the offenses of sins like rape and murder or even incorrect activities by men in the workplace in order to make up for what God somehow failed to visit upon women and should have.
 
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escapee

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Can you expound on this please? :)
Every woman wants a child. That is part of being a woman. But to have a child, you need resources. Wandering around the wilderliness hunting for this and that doesn't cut it. A woman needs resources to feed her child. Once desire of materialism is in, or any desire, then sin comes as a consequence. Men have sexual desires, but the Bible encourages against it. In contrast, the Bible encourage not against but for the female desires.
 
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AlexDTX

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I realize this won't be a popular post, but I'm aiming for truth, here, not the feelings of comfort or the approval of other people, so come what may.

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.
Consider these verses.

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Whether we lay the blame on Eve or Adam, God sees both as one person. And as James said, if one point of the law is broken, the whole law is broken.

If I injure my foot, my whole body suffers the pain. This same idea is developed by Paul regarding the body of Christ.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

The very thought of laying blame on either the man or the woman shows how far away our thinking is from the way God thinks.

As a husband, my wife is me. If I hurt her, I hurt myself.

Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
 
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Deidre32

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Adam could have intervened. He had many opportunities to do so before she ate. His complicity and inaction was duly punished.

A feminist could turn your argument on its head and lay the blame at his feet because he failed to man up and protect her. They would call his behavior passive and probably digress into diatribes about beta males ad nauseam.

God charged both with sin. Our natural reason doesn’t set aside His wisdom. I am not a feminist but I can see a litany of holes in your theory. Let’s stick with His instead.
I agree with this post, completely.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I realize this won't be a popular post, but I'm aiming for truth, here, not the feelings of comfort or the approval of other people, so come what may.

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.
Actually Oprah would agree with you. According to the law of attraction, people attract negative or positive things to themselves. We have to remember that there was a serpent in this story. If it were NOT for the serpent Eve would not have eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God made them male and female, then he wanted them to be united together. The problem with feminism and chauvinism is they do not want unity, they want to maintain division. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Genesis 2:24 "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh." They call this to "run and return", God made them male and female only to unite them back together again as one. The union between husband and wife represents the relationship between Jesus and His Bride.
 
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AlexDTX

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This is a sad example of why we need more godly women who broach the topic of biblical submission with wisdom and grace. Blaming feminism for errant theology and exegesis is irresponsible. No amount of feminist rhetoric could have led you to this point. You are debasing your sex and its repugnant.
"Repugnant" is harsh. She may be confused. Perhaps she was on the feminist bandwagon before and is making a major course change.
 
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fhansen

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I realize this won't be a popular post, but I'm aiming for truth, here, not the feelings of comfort or the approval of other people, so come what may.

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.
You're kidding, right?? Just asking. Anyway, Adam's sin was worse because he wasn't deceived-he just went along with the herd, small as it was. And his own desires. And women are often mistreated by the very men who should be protecting them, misogynistic as that may sound.
 
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AlexDTX

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This female problem is further worsened by St Paul who suggests that child birth is the primary way to a woman's redemption.

Some interpret that passage as meaning, the mother won't die in child birth, which was a frequent danger. To think it means it is part of their salvation requirements is contrary to the Gospel.
 
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Willing-heart

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On hearing the Dalai Lama once say (while speaking on a news channel) that “all men are the ones that cause all the problems in the world, but women are the ones that cause problems at home,” Katie Melua shared are thought on it by saying, “I don’t really know which one is worse.”

In fact, the battle of the sexist did not start in the church of Corinth, nor in the 60s in America. The battle of the sexist started back in Eden. After Adam was created from Dust, the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.” and God created Eve from Adam. Later on, the Devil in disguise deceived Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, and she shared it with Adam. The Evil one went to the woman first in order to create dissatisfaction in her role, in order to create confusion with regards to the roles, for Adam was given the responsibility of leadership. Instead of leading Adam was following.
 
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bèlla

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"Repugnant" is harsh. She may be confused. Perhaps she was on the feminist bandwagon before and is making a major course change.

That is your opinion. I stand by my comments. I’ve known a lot of women who’ve come from that position and more than a few become pro-male and shift their derision to women. It isn’t uncommon.
 
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kdm1984

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I wasn't ever a feminist. Instead, I was raised without much awareness of the gender division, either practically (in the world) or theologically (in the Bible). I only learned about these things much later in my twenties. My parents were always vague on doctrine and never broached these sorts of topics at all. I had to learn through my own readings and social engagements with others.
 
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AlexDTX

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That is your opinion. I stand by my comments. I’ve known a lot of women who’ve come from that position and more than a few become pro-male and shift their derision to women. It isn’t uncommon.
Yes, it is my opinion, as is every comment in the forum. Nor do I presume to know what you have experienced to cause you to call her comment repugnant.
 
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JackRT

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As a Christian male I have no problem with feminism. When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Patriarchy was simply part and parcel of their world view --- they simply were unable to think of the role of women in any other way. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himself seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonymously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.

The following is a good read.


Why It's Sad When Women Say They Oppose Feminism
by Marcia Sirota

Why It's Sad When Women Say They Oppose Feminism

It's very strange to me that the notion of feminism currently seems to be equated with man-hating or man-bashing. As a feminist myself, surrounded by many other feminists, it's clear that none of us have the least bit of animosity, contempt or destructive wishes toward men.

For feminists the world over, the term identifies those of us who simply want men and women to be regarded as equals and treated as equals. Nothing more and nothing less. We feminists have nothing against men. We have no wish to take anything away from them. What we do want is for men to share what they have with women. Feminists don't feel superior to men; we're not angry or hateful toward men, and we don't want to deprive men of what they're entitled to, either.

What we want is to be on an equal playing field; accorded the same rights, privileges and protections as men, as well as the same opportunities and rewards. Anyone who's paying attention can see that there's nothing anti-men about these wishes.

Aa feminist, I acknowledge that there are differences between men and women, as well as the fact that there may be things that some men are better at than some women, and vice-versa, but none of this makes either gender superior or inferior.

I wonder whether those men who decry the notion of feminism simply don't want to share what they have with us, and whether those women who are "against feminism" are simply alining themselves on the side of those who have more.

Men who oppose feminism appear to want it all for themselves; all the power, the money, the rights and privileges, even the freedom to behave badly toward women.

Women who oppose feminism appear to be fearful of alienating men. They must have so little faith in our capabilities as women to advocate for ourselves and to achieve our goal of living as equal, and successful, members of society. Perhaps these "anti-feminist" women are fearful of potential male backlash against our attempts at becoming equal citizens, or maybe they just don't understand what feminism really is.

It's sad when women say they oppose feminism, because if they bothered to learn what it actually is, how could they disagree with an idea that proposes their having the same rights, opportunities and privileges as men? Unless of course, these women believe that men wouldn't like them if they were equal. This presupposes that some (perhaps many) women are prepared to abdicate their rights to equal citizenry, believing that this would make them more desirable to men.

What both men and women need to know is that everyone will be happier if women are accorded equal rights. Women making equal wages will only benefit families; women being regarded as equal will decrease violence toward women, both domestic and otherwise, and women being their best selves will be more interesting, loving, joyful and giving partners to men.

Another important thing that embracing feminism could do is decrease female hostility toward men. Women who are disenfranchised (whether through their own choice to reject feminism or because of the way things are) very often resent men. They become angry, even enraged toward men who hold the balance of power. Women often can be contemptuous of their husbands or boyfriends, complaining bitterly about them to their female friends. Women can leak their hostility toward their partner or explode in anger, all because they're enraged at the obvious, and obviously unfair, power imbalance that exists between a fully empowered male citizen and a woman who is, for all intents and purposes, considered to be a second-class citizen.

We feminists, on the other hand, see ourselves as equal to men, so even if society refuses to accord us our equal rights, we assert our needs in our personal and professional relationships.

Feeling empowered, we have no reason to feel anything other than warmly and positively toward the men in our lives.

Feminists don't tolerate abuse, so we don't build up rage toward men; we assert ourselves in the workplace, so even when we're treated unfairly, just because we're women, we don't resent men so much as bemoan the antiquated, dumb-headed system that prevents us all from being our best selves.

Nothing bad will come of us embracing the notion of feminism. Yes, perhaps some greedy, selfish men will resent having to share, but they'll just have to get over it. And perhaps some fearful women will want to hold onto the idea that a man will only want them if he doesn't have to respect them, but hopefully they'll see that it's better to be loved as well as respected by the men in their lives.

Feminism is not a dirty word, anymore than love is, or respect, or compassion or consideration. When people see this, perhaps we'll be able to move a bit closer to a world in which men and women get to share all the good things in life, equally.
 
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AlexDTX

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Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonymously some 60 years after Paul's death.

Do you have references and evidence to support your claim? I have not heard anyone else make such a claim. If it were true, the pastoral epistles would not be in the canon of Scripture and should be placed in the body of the Pseudopygrapha.
 
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