Women pastors, the spirit of whoredom

[Floatingaxe]

their are more differences than that between men and women.

Not ANY difference to God at all when it comes to serving Him...NONE.

 

[Ave Maria]

Women pastors is not the spirit of whoredom. Women have every right to be pastors just as much as men do. Or do we still live in the bigoted days of sexism?

 

[chris777]

Very typical of a warped understanding of scripture and of who God is and what He has done.

I take the Word of God as literal truth as well, but I haven't been taught it with such a biased mindset as you have been, obviously. It takes the power of the Holy Spirit to reveal the exact truth of the written Word to your heart--not simply the basic understanding of the words at face value. The writers of Scripture were spiritually empowered, and one must take the time to ask the Holy Spirit to open one's heart and mind to HIS message!

Obviously this "men only" view is from a simplistic literal reading without any spiritual understanding.
It is so very obvious...and there will never be agreement in this without both being Holy Spirit-filled. That's the truth of the matter, sadly.

I propose you have never tested the spirit that leads you.

I have tested the spirit that leads me now, as I have been deceived before, and I have learned not to just follow whatever revelation I am Given un less it first lines up with Gods word.

As some of the non believers have stated their belief that truth lies outside of Gods word as well, I was once misled by a similar spirit, and believed as they , and you do, that because women are equal, that any restrictions placed on them had to be man made, as God couldn't possibly be sexist, He is Not, but He has also demonstrated why those verses say EXACTINGLY what they do say, for just reason, again you are saying 1 single verse outweighs all others contradicting it, that is just plain foolishness, you believe me following some man made doctrine, but it was the spirit that demonstrated to me otherwise, how the scriptures are 100 percent correct, and any belief contrary is not from God. the doctrine you are espousing is just nonexistent until around 200 years ago, And coincidentally (possibly) is like the rapture, not found in any teachings of the church until modern times. And just not found in the scriptures unless extraordinary and exorbitant effort is made to jam the doctrine into the word of God.

God is not divided against himself, and unfortunately one group in this debate is deceived, I as well as many others side with the scriptures, and do not require some special extant revelation, to alter the meaning into something not written, just as millions of others have, while The majority is obviously not always correct, you keep mentioning things from a misogynist slant, and believe that is why the scriptures state what they do, but these were God fearing men, and they knew the penalty of altering scripture, and the doctrine you and others keep perpetrating is just not found in the vast majority of the scriptures.
You can be angry at me for pointing it out, you can call me a misogynist you can call me deceived, but Gods word is clear, even if my speech is not, others have also provided testimony as well, I really don't know what else to do , but to bring it before the Congregation. But then again thats technically where it is at at least in this loose assembly of the forums. The only other option is prayer which I will continue to do for all involved in both this debate and the forum as a whole as well.

 

[Armistead]

I think many fail to see that Christ made men and women equal, in fact, all people equal..in God's eye.

However, God did not do away with order or a system of authority. The man was placed as the head of the family. God's system of design was also the man to be the head of the church. When we step outside of that, we step outside of God's design.

I am not saying women can't preach, teach, ect. However, a woman should not pastor a church. I think that is the problem. God used women throughout the bible...but never to head or Pastor a church. That was a role God designed for men, the same as he is the head of the family.

Certainly women should be out promoting Christ, witnessing, ect. with words and acts. Under the headship of the male pastor, a woman can teach or preach in the church. We have two females that preach in our church. By that, I mean they stand before a crowd and speak. They usually do girl things, but they also sometimes do special messages, under the authority of the male.

In the same way women in the catholic church preach, teach, ect.

But women that Pastor or given headship over a church, step out of God's design.

 

[chris777]

If you choose ignorance then so be it. But call it what it is...

I have stated there are writings alive today from the church while Apostles still lived and relate to the church and it's teachings that contradict your interpretation today and you dismiss them as some kind of 'doctrinal slant' of my church. I am certain that other churches that use these same writings for their teachings and are not Catholic would be rather offended that you think these writings are strictly RCC.

But I think you are afraid that these writings would prove you wrong and then prove your church wrong and then what would be left?

what writings are these, I had seen a catholic pamphlet, but it has been a while, and it went in another direction, I would like to research it a bit.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I propose you have never tested the spirit that leads you.

I have tested the spirit that leads me now, as I have been deceived before, and I have learned not to just follow whatever revelation I am Given un less it first lines up with Gods word.

As some of the non believers have stated their belief that truth lies outside of Gods word as well, I was once misled by a similar spirit, and believed as they , and you do, that because women are equal, that any restrictions placed on them had to be man made, as God couldn't possibly be sexist, He is Not, but He has also demonstrated why those verses say EXACTINGLY what they do say, for just reason, again you are saying 1 single verse outweighs all others contradicting it, that is just plain foolishness, you believe me following some man made doctrine, but it was the spirit that demonstrated to me otherwise, how the scriptures are 100 percent correct, and any belief contrary is not from God. the doctrine you are espousing is just nonexistent until around 200 years ago, And coincidentally (possibly) is like the rapture, not found in any teachings of the church until modern times. And just not found in the scriptures unless extraordinary and exorbitant effort is made to jam the doctrine into the word of God.

God is not divided against himself, and unfortunately one group in this debate is deceived, I as well as many others side with the scriptures, and do not require some special extant revelation, to alter the meaning into something not written, just as millions of others have, while The majority is obviously not always correct, you keep mentioning things from a misogynist slant, and believe that is why the scriptures state what they do, but these were God fearing men, and they knew the penalty of altering scripture, and the doctrine you and others keep perpetrating is just not found in the vast majority of the scriptures.
You can be angry at me for pointing it out, you can call me a misogynist you can call me deceived, but Gods word is clear, even if my speech is not, others have also provided testimony as well, I really don't know what else to do , but to bring it before the Congregation. But then again thats technically where it is at at least in this loose assembly of the forums. The only other option is prayer which I will continue to do for all involved in both this debate and the forum as a whole as well.

I am constantly testing the spirit of a thing. I see a spirit of division so powerful among us, and yes, there is also another powerful, lying spirit among us, called "Misogyny". Vile, he does Satan's bidding as he has for thousands of years, laying the foundation in Greece, then Rome, and has now permeated all cultures globally. His major feat was to infect the Church of Jesus Christ, the Bride, to cause her to be half as powerful in the world as She should be. You see, Satan doesn't want Christ to return. He is trying to hold back Jesus' triumphant coming. He hates Him. He hates mankind, and, He hates woman, because of Eden and God's curse on him.

I am not a proponent of altering Scripture! Scripture is the final and sole authority.

 

[LLWHA]

And since when is a Christian subject to the law? The law brings only death.

That is not what Jesus said!!


Jesus' Attitude toward the Law17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes [lawyers] and Pharisees [politicians] (they were also priests because the church and the state were one at that time), , ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So as all should know these scribes [lawyers] and Pharisees [politicians] priests, followed the Law of God the way that understood it to the letter or tried to.

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness]" Jesus


16:17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the Law and Prophecy to fail." Jesus

tittle [n] a tiny or scarcely detectable amount


Easton Bible Dictionary
Definition: a point, (Matt. 5:18; Luke 16:17), the minute point or stroke added to some letters of the Hebrew alphabet to distinguish them from others which they resemble; hence, the very least point.



I guess you can believe Jesus and His Truth or the words of someone else?

I personally believe Jesus.

 

[chris777]

... well ok, several actually.

Are the opponents of women preachers and pastors in this thread against them because of the verses where Paul says that a woman should be silent in church, or because of the verses that talk about a woman not usurping authority?

it is also reiterated the curse from Gen 3, which has not been lifted yet, as the curse upon the land is still in effect, so I base it on both old and new covenant. plus Jesus and Paul both reiterated old covenant teachings.

If the former, do you think that we should take this literally - because it is in Holy Scripture - which means that a woman cannot read the lesson, pray, prophesy, give a testimony or sing in church, she has to be completely silent from the moment she enters the building?

I don't personally want to, but here we are because some choose to take the freedom they have been given and run with it.

If you are against women ministers for the latter reason and actually think there is no reason why a woman should not preach; why is it alright not to take the verses about women being silent literally, but insist that verses on authority have to be taken this way because they are in God's word?

its not alright

Or is your argument mainly one of supposition - i.e Jesus had 12 male disciples therefore that has to mean that no woman can lead a church? Or, there is not a verse that says that a woman specifically preached and led in the early church, therefore they can't have done, therefore we can't do this today, whatever society we live in? Because arguments of supposition don't work

its really odd you should say suppositions dont work because so many of your own post use suppositions.

. Who says that we have to do everything - nearly 2000 years later and in a gentile church - that the early church did? Who says that this is a command and a pattern for all time, and that whatever her gifts or her desire to preach the Gospel, a woman cannot do this because God didn't create her the "right" gender?

case in point

 

[chris777]

The Church doesn't hold women back, you don't have to be in the office of a Preacher or Pastor tyo do the work of God- consider Mother Thresa.

might want to look a bit more than the surface on her as their are quite a few oddities

In this century we've had a huge hit of opinion/self interpretation rather than true scriptural teaching to hit the Church. Churches now ordain homosexual ministers, Bishops and Preist, they allow women to lead the Church, they openly ordain sinful human beings, they preach a Gospel of Money and Health, among many other things.

you expect them not to get their ears scratched or something? People are lovers of themselves, and if someone isnt scratching their ears and speaking soothing words to them they might depart for something more ....truthful

 

[chris777]

I know & agree with that - I just didn't want to see this derailing into a Catholic debate.

among other attempts at derailing it. into other areas as well

 

[chris777]

Well, it doesn't personally 'effect' me in that, I don't go to a church where a female is my Pastor - and I wouldn't go to one in any good conscience.
It's my opinion that the churches most effected by female preachers are Pentecostals or Episcopals?
Correct me if that's wrong.

Oh their are more and more churches of all denominations reducing the scriptures to advice and not command

 

[chris777]

Does any realize it was the Catholic Church in 382 that set out to translate from Latin the books now used in the New Testament into the Vulgate?

That it is the Catholic Church that chose the 27 books of the New Testament from more than 200 books?

That yes the Catholic Church is the Universal church spoken of as early as 100 AD and it is the same Church that has been led by the Spirit of Truth since Jesus left the Spirit to Protect and Remember the Truth?

All these remarks about "oh Ihave the Holy Spirit and it talks to me and told me women can be priests" is just ludicrous. The Spirit of Truth came after Jesus to protect his church and YES it is only ONE church.

As stated previously the Catholic Church does indeed trace it's roots through Apostlic Succession to the Apostles and thus to Christ himself.

If you find yourself in a church today that is other than the Catholic Church or the Eastern Church then you have no valid Orders and do not have the Spirit of Truth guiding and Protecting your church.

ANY church that is other than these two churches DID NOT EXIST until the 16th century or later is not God made but man made. That is why there are so many denominations because they are not of God's church they are from someone else. They have valid Baptisms but what else???

All I have said is proven through history and is not some ones fanciful fantasy of some spirit telling them the Truth. Jesus gave us the Truth when he was here and the Apostles taught it and the Spirit of Truth has protected it. Anything else is not from God since God gave us his teachings before he left.

Scriptural and historical and fact. Beat that...

Their are many things I agree with in the above, and I am deeply disturbed at the character of Martin Luther as revealed in his own writings following the schism , but
I unfortunately keep finding that many of those who hold the most skewed, and unscriptural doctrines are more frequently than not Identify themselves as catholic, or from catholic background.
This does not change my trepidation to identify with Luther, but it is a disturbing observation., sorry for the off topic

 

[chris777]

I'm not sure what your point was... mine was that "there is no longer jew nor Greek, no longer slave nor free, there is no longer male or female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus"...

so stop all the patriarchal nonsense

So why do we not ordain infants as pastors and leaders of the church?

And why does that one verse obliterate all others on the subject?

 

[lmnop9876]

So why do we not ordain infants as pastors and leaders of the church?

And why does that one verse obliterate all others on the subject?

:o infants =/= women

 

[Floatingaxe]

So why do we not ordain infants as pastors and leaders of the church?

And why does that one verse obliterate all others on the subject?

What kind of question is that? KCDAD is right.

No verse obliterates any other, but it should obliterate erroneous belief. Out the door, immediately.

 

[chris777]

:o infants =/= women

Why not the verse they use does not forbid it, and it states we are all one in Christ.

 

[chris777]

What kind of question is that? KCDAD is right.

No verse obliterates any other, but it should obliterate erroneous belief. Out the door, immediately.

according to your will and testimony.

as most of your replies are, you provide no back up other than slander

 

[Floatingaxe]

chris777:

Your silly accusations are hollow indeed.

 

[Armistead]

That is not what Jesus said!!


Jesus' Attitude toward the Law17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Lk. 16.17
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes [lawyers] and Pharisees [politicians] (they were also priests because the church and the state were one at that time), , ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So as all should know these scribes [lawyers] and Pharisees [politicians] priests, followed the Law of God the way that understood it to the letter or tried to.

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness]" Jesus


16:17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the Law and Prophecy to fail." Jesus

tittle [n] atinyorscarcelydetectableamount


Easton Bible Dictionary
Definition: a point, (Matt. 5:18; Luke 16:17), the minute point or stroke added to some letters of the Hebrew alphabet to distinguish them from others which they resemble; hence, the very least point.



I guess you can believe Jesus and His Truth or the words of someone else?

I personally believe Jesus.

Christ fulfilled the law. He did not destroy it, but changed it's purpose, that we no longer are made clean by the law, but grace.

No man could keep the law, not one, but Christ, that is how he fulfilled the law. Christ did away with the system of laws for man. If indeed we were still following the law, just read Lev. and you can see none of us are. Christ did away with that system. In fact he killed it. Paul made it clear, we no longer live under the law or for the law, but for Christ.

The law we now are commanded to live under is the law of love. If we try to keep any of the other law, then the bible says we must keep it all, something no man can do.

However, there is a difference between the cultic law/lev. law and God's moral law. The 10 commands are actually part of God's moral law and alway exist and never done away with, because they abide in love. To steal, kill, commit adultry, ect...break the law of love.

We are now free from the law through Christ by an act of faith. Paul clearly tells us we no longer serve the law.
The only laws we are to abide in are those that serve love.,

 

[Floatingaxe]

Christ fulfilled the law. He did not destroy it, but changed it's purpose, that we no longer are made clean by the law, but grace.

No man could keep the law, not one, but Christ, that is how he fulfilled the law. Christ did away with the system of laws for man. If indeed we were still following the law, just read Lev. and you can see none of us are. Christ did away with that system. In fact he killed it. Paul made it clear, we no longer live under the law or for the law, but for Christ.

The law we now are commanded to live under is the law of love. If we try to keep any of the other law, then the bible says we must keep it all, something no man can do.

However, there is a difference between the cultic law/lev. law and God's moral law. The 10 commands are actually part of God's moral law and alway exist and never done away with, because they abide in love. To steal, kill, commit adultry, ect...break the law of love.

We are now free from the law through Christ by an act of faith. Paul clearly tells us we no longer serve the law.
The only laws we are to abide in are those that serve love.,

Wowee! Who'da thunk it? I agree totally with you!