Women ordained in the Baptist Church

[MbiaJc]

First, Romans 16:1 doesn't really prove your point. True, Pheobe is mentioned as a deacon. However, it doesn't mean that Paul approved.

Second, deacons are considered to be leaders. They are not above the pastor, but they are assistants to the pastor. That is a type of leader.

That one verse in Romans can't possibly override the 6 verses in 1 Timothy 3.

You are assuming by mans doctrine that the Deacons are to take an authorities role in the Church.
You didn't do what I suggested, find where the first deacons were ordained, and you will see that the job of the deacons is to wait on tables. That is, see to the care of the widows and orphans.
We are talking what the Bible says, not denomination doctrine.

 

[MbiaJc]

First, Romans 16:1 doesn't really prove your point. True, Pheobe is mentioned as a deacon. However, it doesn't mean that Paul approved.

Second, deacons are considered to be leaders. They are not above the pastor, but they are assistants to the pastor. That is a type of leader.

That one verse in Romans can't possibly override the 6 verses in 1 Timothy 3.

Quote:
A woman can serve as deaconess(servent) of the church, which is not a leader ship role. Deacon is not a leadership role either, see why they were first apointed for?

This was not my quote.

The reading in Timothy may reference a specific problem in Timothy's church. If not, then we still have the problem by one verse that contradicts Pauline thinking on deacons......"husband of one wife"?????? Phebe was female!!!!

Cheers,

Jim

This would not be a problem for me, in the womans case, it would be, a wife of one husband!

 

[JacobHall86]

You cant rewrite scripture because you think it sounds better the way you want it.

 

[christian73]

You cant rewrite scripture because you think it sounds better the way you want it.

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

I see people keep throwing I Tim 3. So tell me is this true about that chapter:

1) Must be a man
2) Must be married w/ children (never divorced, separated or have problem kids)

Which means some disqualifiers for being ordained are:
1) You're a female
2) You're a man that has never been married
3) You're a man that is married but have no children
4) You're a man that is divorced
5) You're a man that is separated (legality doesn't matter) with your wife
6) You're married with a good relationship with your wife but not with your children
7) You're married with a good relationship with your wife and kids but your children are bad


**If you believe those are disqualifiers, I stand beside you (agree to disagree) with your view of women not being ordained. If you don't believe those are disqualifiers, then you're doing the same thing that you're accusing all the supporters of ordained women.

 

[christian73]

I see people keep throwing I Tim 3. So tell me is this true about that chapter:

1) Must be a man
2) Must be married w/ children (never divorced, separated or have problem kids)

Which means some disqualifiers for being ordained are:
1) You're a female
2) You're a man that has never been married
3) You're a man that is married but have no children
4) You're a man that is divorced
5) You're a man that is separated (legality doesn't matter) with your wife
6) You're married with a good relationship with your wife but not with your children
7) You're married with a good relationship with your wife and kids but your children are bad


**If you believe those are disqualifiers, I stand beside you (agree to disagree) with your view of women not being ordained. If you don't believe those are disqualifiers, then you're doing the same thing that you're accusing all the supporters of ordained women.

I agree. Good post.

 

[edie19]

I see people keep throwing I Tim 3. So tell me is this true about that chapter:

1) Must be a man
2) Must be married w/ children (never divorced, separated or have problem kids)

Which means some disqualifiers for being ordained are:
1) You're a female
2) You're a man that has never been married
3) You're a man that is married but have no children
4) You're a man that is divorced
5) You're a man that is separated (legality doesn't matter) with your wife
6) You're married with a good relationship with your wife but not with your children
7) You're married with a good relationship with your wife and kids but your children are bad


**If you believe those are disqualifiers, I stand beside you (agree to disagree) with your view of women not being ordained. If you don't believe those are disqualifiers, then you're doing the same thing that you're accusing all the supporters of ordained women.

I can't speak for others - only for my own experience. But I know for a fact that if either of my pastors separated/divorced they would resign their office at our church.

Along the same line if they had a child who was openly/actively choosing a sinful lifestyle they would resign (I'm the first to admit that I have trouble with that - we're instructed to teach our children but we aren't responsible for their regeneration/conversion).

As far as being unmarried and/or without children - that came up when our 2nd pastor was ordained (he was married but at that time without children). Paul isn't requiring that a pastor be married - but he is requiring fidelity if married. Similarly, regarding children (the household) he needs to be active in the daily life of his home - not leaving things such as discipline and/or the spiritual lives of his children to his wife.

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

However I Tim 3 states that the person must be have one wife. So for being elder/deacon, it seems they must be married.

 

[christian73]

Along the same line if they had a child who was openly/actively choosing a sinful lifestyle they would resign (I'm the first to admit that I have trouble with that - we're instructed to teach our children but we aren't responsible for their regeneration/conversion).

I had a pastor once who had a grown son who was involved in a sinful lifestyle and just dismissed it. I know you can't control what your children do, but you should at least talk to them. This pastor didn't even do that.

 

[JacobHall86]

Actually, it says husbands onf Only one wife. Stressing the need for him to show fidelity, not a need to be married, or even rule out divorce.

 

[edie19]

However I Tim 3 states that the person must be have one wife. So for being elder/deacon, it seems they must be married.

There is a difference between saying that a person must be a faithful husband and that he must be a husband. The Scripture is saying he must be faithful (not divorced, separated or adulterous).

 

[christian73]

However I Tim 3 states that the person must be have one wife. So for being elder/deacon, it seems they must be married.

Question for you: Was Paul married? Was Timothy? If not, then how could Paul tell Timothy that a elder/deacon must be married?

And consider this. In 1 Corinthians 6, Paul says that it is better for a man to stay single. But he also says in that passage that if you must marry, then marry. If a deacon/elder must ber married, wouldn't that contradict what Paul said in 1 Corinthians?

 

[JacobHall86]

Simon is the only Apostle I can think of that was married. So all of the leaders of the Early church were unBiblical, unless of course you take the Scriptures to mean what they were suppose to, and that it simply means fidelity.

 

[christian73]

Simon is the only Apostle I can think of that was married. So all of the leaders of the Early church were unBiblical, unless of course you take the Scriptures to mean what they were suppose to, and that it simply means fidelity.

Exactly my point! Thanks

 

[country]

So in 54 pages has there been an agreement reached yet on women Pastors?

LOL

BTW, I believe women Pastors are unbiblical. Are the Baptist women Pastors only up north? I have never seen or heard of any in the South.

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

There is a difference between saying that a person must be a faithful husband and that he must be a husband. The Scripture is saying he must be faithful (not divorced, separated or adulterous).

Thanks for your clarification. Also, where do you see the word or interpretation of "faithful" in that text or the implication that that portion was option. If you make anything in that section optional then you may be at risk of making the strictly male portion optional.

 

[JacobHall86]

So in 54 pages has there been an agreement reached yet on women Pastors?

LOL

BTW, I believe women Pastors are unbiblical. Are the Baptist women Pastors only up north? I have never seen or heard of any in the South.

I grew up in a church with a women youth pastor and a women music minister. I knew no better, and when I did learn better I left and joined the Church I am at now. Im in GA btw.

 

[christian73]

So in 54 pages has there been an agreement reached yet on women Pastors?

LOL

BTW, I believe women Pastors are unbiblical. Are the Baptist women Pastors only up north? I have never seen or heard of any in the South.

Have you read all 54 pages?

 

[edie19]

Thanks for your clarification. Also, where do you see the word or interpretation of "faithful" in that text or the implication that that portion was option. If you make anything in that section optional then you may be at risk of making the strictly male portion optional.

I see "faithful" in the 7th commandment. It isn't ever optional.

 

[S.T.A.R.S.]

I see "faithful" in the 7th commandment. It isn't ever optional.

I believe "we" were talking about I Tim 3. Now, where do you see "faithful" in that text.