Women initiating separation or divorce...

[desi]

Desi,
I get the feeling that you really want everyone to just go "Oh my! What was I thinking?!? Desi is right, he's been right all along. Thank you Desi, for showing me the proper way to the Lord."

The thing is, I don't think you're going to change anyone's mind, just as all these people aren't going to change your mind. So why don't you just agree to disagree and close the thread down?

Its b/come a pointless rambling wreck where people are trying to hit each other over the head with Bible verses and their "proper" interpretations. Nothing is being learned, love isn't being cultivated. If anything, the seeds of hate and anger are sprouting very quickly. There's already enough bitterness and hate in the Christian vs non-Christian way of thinking and living, why add to it with infighting amongst ourselves ...

If you want people to turn away from what can be seen as sinful behavior, pray for them so that God may enter their hearts and change them. Don't sit and antagonize, just makes everything worse.

Jeepgirl if you look at my initial post it addresses an issue which is decimating Christian marriage. I merely requested Biblical reference to justify the behavior, as God and I hate divorce. All the nonsense which follows was fellow Christians not liking my question but unable to answer it, and me trying ineptly to reply to their crooked logic. Do you have the answer to the million dollar question?

 

[Warrior Poet]

Lets see.... I was married for 1.5 years, with her for 7 her name is Jessica. We had a very rough first year and married young.He mother died of caner her stepdad immediataly moved in his "girlfriend" and her little bother had to move in with my parents. We lived in a apt. with 4 other people at all times. I smoked pot, she drank. We didn't attend church, nor talk about God very much. I had all my friends around she had no one. I slept on the couch in the living room she slept in bed alone, I worked 9-5 and went to school 6-11. She closed at her store and didnt get home till 1am. Twice she was robbed at gun point, once they locked her and her CSR's in the back room and robbed the store blind. The second one i slept through, she woke me up at 4am shaking, i just wanted to sleep. We never talked always fought, never spent money just fought about it. I spent more time on and in my car then in conversation with my wife. She used to cry during sex cause it meant nothing, and she knew it, and so did I. I would rather please myself then her many a-nights near the end. I would sit in my car in the parking lot at work just to kill the few extra minitues so we wouldnt cross paths at home. I wouldnt give her my reciepts so she can balance the "books" I hated shopping with her cause she would pick up "A" and "B" products and fight herself for 20 min on which one. She turned 21 and started drinking bad, I watched her drink a ton at a party and I left to later hear about how much she threw up and couldnt walk, i was stoned at home ****ed. To many times I lied to her face about who I talked to cause she didnt trust me, the truth would lead to a fight something I had no trouble avoiding and I thought I trusted her. She started a "co" journal, I wrote twice, she had 35 entries the last few about how she really felt and what I killing her. I had to pack up and move out of my apt. and leave everything behind. I had to see her stuff dissapear. I had to see those papers in front of me, I signed them. I t was me that messed up. Read a journal, know that a cards mean more to her then gifts, that she likes green apples and hates red, hates the skin of both though. But you know what, you know kills me, three nights before she left we play fought Karate in the living room, and my buddy Lou taped it, we were laughing and joking have a great time, we hug and kiss at the end and are both really smiling and really happy. I have watched that tape many times now, and i fall apart, i cant maintian myself.

Thats what I live with desi, you dont know what what I feel. You think God lets you off lightly if your divorced well you ARE WRONG.... he hates divroce so much he makes me live with the memories, you dont know what thats like. Its a sin, fine. He hates it I agree. But if a believer in Chirst and His price that was paid, has one thing to grasp to its that he has granted us salvation, so one day we wont remeber it.

million dollar question?

Warrior Poet

 

[sarah marie]

[bible]romans 3:22-24[/bible]

 

[jeepgirl1]

Jeepgirl if you look at my initial post it addresses an issue which is decimating Christian marriage. I merely requested Biblical reference to justify the behavior, as God and I hate divorce. All the nonsense which follows was fellow Christians not liking my question but unable to answer it, and me trying ineptly to reply to their crooked logic. Do you have the answer to the million dollar question?

Desi,
For crying out loud. You're an adult. You should be able to recognize after almost 12 PAGES OF ANTAGONISTIC POSTS that you and the majority of people who have responded have reached an impasse. This thread has now become a pointless exercise in ego massage for some .... Make the mature decision to end it now before it grows even more out of hand ...

Here's the answer to your "million dollar question": I really don't care. In the grand scheme of things the only person who anyone has to answer to in regards to these types of issues is the Lord himself. Who am I to say what is right and what is wrong in regards to the decisions that others make and the things others believe? I won't even get into how the translation of ancient Greek into English is often a stretch and the historical period in which the Bible was written, ie men saw women as possessions and not a whole lot more. All of this leads to many different translations of Bibles ... some more accurate than others and none as accurate as the original Greek ... I know this one might be hard to accept, but just as there is a chance that all these people are wrong in their beliefs on divorce, there is also a chance that you are wrong ...

I've got a million dollar question for you: why can't you just let it go and accept that some people interpret the word of the Bible differently than you?

This is growing sooo old ....

 

[desi]

Desi,
For crying out loud. You're an adult. You should be able to recognize after almost 12 PAGES OF ANTAGONISTIC POSTS that you and the majority of people who have responded have reached an impasse. This thread has now become a pointless exercise in ego massage for some .... Make the mature decision to end it now before it grows even more out of hand ...

If I end it others will be left to listen to the consensus here who are wrong according to the Bible. This thread is mainly for the others who peruse this forum looking for answers. If I leave... counseling, do what she wants, I'll pray for you pal will lead the wayward straight to the slaughter, to divorce. They may get there anyway's but at least another option will be available.

I've got a million dollar question for you: why can't you just let it go and accept that some people interpret the word of the Bible differently than you?

This is growing sooo old ....

The interpretation is not the problem. Corinthians says 'Wives shall not leave their husbands.' Noone has argued against 'my interpretation' of the scripture I have offered, in stead they have personally insulted me and offered impertinent scripture relating to Jesus forgiving sin. While I agree Jesus died to forgive sin I don't think he had Christians using it as a convenient excuse to divorce in mind. When the NT addresses sinning since our sins are forgiven, the faith of the intentional sinner is defined as a dead faith, not real, since the actions are unGodly.

 

[desi]

WP, I don't know exactly how you feel but I almost do because I was almost there. Your pain is the same pain which kept my father single for 13 years until I was 18 and joined the Marines, our anniversaries are about a week apart. If I insinuated divorce was the easy way out, I apologize because as a child and a man I know otherwise. As a man almost being divorced was horrible. My wife initiated the separation, like yours. For a time I worked days and attended school nights, I missed the first 3 years of my oldest daughter's life except for the weekends where, like you I avoided my wife because she was a nag when I was around. I'm talking too much about me.

As for your karate experience, my father inlaw has a similar one with my wife's mother. The night before she left him she gave him the "best ****ing" of his life. After that she really "****ed" him-divorce. Just thought you might appreciate that.

The purpose of this thread was not to put you on the spot but to put women who would/have leave/left their husbands on the spot, in hopes they don't or will relent if they did. And to show the affected husbands their wives are in error and they should not play ball, counseling, watching the kids etc... with their wayward wives. I'm not the greatest communicator but I try.

 

[jeepgirl1]

The purpose of this thread was not to put you on the spot but to put women who would/have leave/left their husbands on the spot, in hopes they don't or will relent if they did. And to show the affected husbands their wives are in error and they should not play ball, counseling, watching the kids etc... with their wayward wives. I'm not the greatest communicator but I try.

Okay Desi, time for me to take my own advice on this. I agree to disagree with you and let it go. We aren't getting anywhere. If you want to think that a woman should stay with an abusive or continually adulterous husband without seeking counseling or ultimatums from the wife that he shape up or ship out, then that's your prerogative.

You just seem to be getting caught up in the letter of the law as opposed to the compassion and love of Christ. You're playing in the fire of self-righteousness and if you're not careful, you're going to get burned.

Good luck to you ... and God bless

 

[rainyday]

In the grand scheme of things the only person who anyone has to answer to in regards to these types of issues is the Lord himself.

Jeepgirl1 ... I said that many pages ago now, that each of us being individual souls are accountable to God and God alone when our time comes.

Do what the rest of us are doing ... consider the source in the future.

God bless you.

 

[rainyday]

Your pain is the same pain which kept my father single for 13 years ...

... My wife initiated the separation ... I avoided my wife because she was a nag when I was around.

... my father inlaw has a similar one with my wife's mother. The night before she left him she gave him the "best ****ing" of his life. After that she really "****ed" him-divorce ...

The purpose of this thread was not to put you on the spot but to put women who would/have leave/left their husbands on the spot, in hopes they don't or will relent if they did. And to show the affected husbands their wives are in error and they should not play ball, counseling, watching the kids etc... with their wayward wives.

Finally they meet ... past history and truth of perception!

THE END!

 

[jtroth]

Simply put if a Man is doing what he is suppose to do as the HEAD OF THE HOUSE no woman will leave. Woman are responders. So if a man is beating, raping, emotion abuse and then going well if you weren't tryign to wear the pants in the family then it wouldn't happen. Well like I said if a man is doing what he is suppose to be doing none of that would happen casue the woman will naturally be "submissive".
Although I am still married and it si great I am watching my inlaws go through a divorce that is nasty. My father in law claims to be a christian but then turns around and would beat, rape, and do what ever else he wanted to. Plus he is choosing his daughter over his wife and that is wrong. My mother in law tried Killign herself last June to just get away from it all and has since then tried to work it out with her huisband but he doens't get why she left him. And he still pulls this I am the head of the household and you have no say. All of her kids have turned their backs on her except her two of her sons. Now I and generally against divorce but when you have a situation liek that and one isn';t tryign to see howe they have hurt tha person it is insane to stay with that marriage. And I know that the GOD i believe in is full of GRACE AND COMPASSION. .

My father in law and the rest of the family try to tell my husband that he isn't doign a very good job on beign the head of the house and thats bull. Because we have looked at their marriage and decided that that is not what we are going to do. We went to a marriage conference and it was awesome. Although we realy didn't need it but it was good to go.

Also in my inlaws case my father in law is sayign that he shouldn;t have to chose between his wife and his family. Well why would anybody want to be with his family. His dad is a rapist, child molester, and a real jerk. And he claims to be changed but has never goen through any type of help for it. They all cover it up. And my father in law tells my Mother in law that his dad has every rioght to talk to her anyway he wants to because that is his dad adn the kids grandpa.

So you tell me, a wife is suppose to stay in a situation like that? God will understand if she wanted out I think.

 

[IrishGob]

Simply put if a Man is doing what he is suppose to do as the HEAD OF THE HOUSE no woman will leave. Woman are responders. So if a man is beating, raping, emotion abuse and then going well if you weren't tryign to wear the pants in the family then it wouldn't happen. Well like I said if a man is doing what he is suppose to be doing none of that would happen casue the woman will naturally be "submissive".

Wow, you sure have a LOT to learn! There are many times men are being Godly and leading the household and women still leave. Why? because women can be jerks! Men are not the only ones who can be abusive.

I'm sorry about your inlaws situation but I'd bet you a million dollars that he was showing signs of being a jerk even before she married him. Sometimes women choose to ignore the "red flags" just because they want to get married and have this vision of romace and the perfect marriage.

Perhaps your in law was TOO submissive and that's what got her in this situation in the first place...

 

[desi]

What a big hammer you have rainyday.

We do answer to God for what we do. Part of what we do is how we treat and advise others. If we advise others to not follow the Bibles teachings where they are clear...

 

[Blessed75]

Hmmm, I'm in the process of getting a divorce. I am a believer, my husband is not. He has knocked me around, been mentally and emotinally abusive towards me. I have no choice but to divorce him. I tried to make it work - it didn't happen. I couldn't follow my husband's lead as he is not Christian. So, I don't have a choice in my situation. Life is not simple and there are so many different situations that have to be considered. Just my 2 cents.

This is where most of the problems around here seem to arise. I have argued against this based on my understanding of the Bible, 'man is leader of marriage wife is to follow his lead' but almost everyone here, including the men spurned by their wives, disagrees with me.

I admit I may be wrong. Please show me where the Bible mentions women spurning their husbands for any reason... alcoholism, domestic violence, even adultery etc... so I can understand where you fellow Christians are coming from.


God bless and keep all of us,


desi

 

[jtroth]

Wow, you sure have a LOT to learn! There are many times men are being Godly and leading the household and women still leave. Why? because women can be jerks! Men are not the only ones who can be abusive.

I'm sorry about your inlaws situation but I'd bet you a million dollars that he was showing signs of being a jerk even before she married him. Sometimes women choose to ignore the "red flags" just because they want to get married and have this vision of romace and the perfect marriage.

Perhaps your in law was TOO submissive and that's what got her in this situation in the first place...

OK I GUESS I HAVE A LOT TO LEARN THEN. I never once said that just men are the abusers I know woman are just as much. Its jsut men don't talk about it liek women do. And that this whole topic started on a wife leaving or something liek that. And I knwo what I said is true adn that really there is no such thing as beign to submissive unless you go along with doing stuff that you know is wrong but do it anyway. Or not doign something that is right just becasue you don't want to deal with it.

BUt I guess i have a lot to learn so I will go and learn it.

 

[desi]

Hmmm, I'm in the process of getting a divorce. I am a believer, my husband is not. He has knocked me around, been mentally and emotinally abusive towards me. I have no choice but to divorce him. I tried to make it work - it didn't happen. I couldn't follow my husband's lead as he is not Christian. So, I don't have a choice in my situation. Life is not simple and there are so many different situations that have to be considered. Just my 2 cents.

This is what I've question in this thread. A woman marries a man and refuses to defer to his Biblical authority for whatever reason and divorces him despite the Bible's command for wives to stay with their husbands. Since he is not a Christian it is okay for you to defy the Bible word for word? I just don't understand.

 

[IrishGob]

I feel sorry for you wife.

 

[Blessed75]

He has no biblical authority b/c he's not a christian. He physically, emotionally and mentally abused me. Do you think God would want His child abused in this manner. Should I stay with a man who has beat the literal hell out of me, mocked my beliefs, and was verbally abusive to me? I have not defied the bible. Until you've walked a mile in my shoes, you really have no right to judge. Sorry you don't understand, until you've been abused - I guess you won't. Any more questions for me?

This is what I've question in this thread. A woman marries a man and refuses to defer to his Biblical authority for whatever reason and divorces him despite the Bible's command for wives to stay with their husbands. Since he is not a Christian it is okay for you to defy the Bible word for word? I just don't understand.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

You are saying that in conflict to Biblical scripture for wives not to leave their husbands, as I've already quoted. You mention it without Biblical scripture to back it up. Perhaps leaving is not the answer?

Hi brother, apologies for not getting back to you earlier. The scripture reference can be found in 1 Cor 7:10 & 11. Verse 10 reiterates what we are both in agreement with - in an ideal situation a wife must not separate from her husband and a couple should not divorce. But then verse 11 follows with "But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled with her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife". Why do you think Paul would write that given that Paul supports Jesus' guidance on divorce and what he also wrote in verse 10? If a woman is categorically not to separate from her husband Paul would not seemingly contradict what he said in verse 10 with verse 11. The thing to bear in mind with this topic area is that first Jesus and then Paul were addressing specific practices that the believers at the time were undertaking in contradiction with scripture. In Matthew chapter 19 Jesus specifically addressed the issue of Jewish men divorcing their wives for any and every reason (Matt 19:3). This was different to what was originally given to Moses but not only that Jesus took it even further back to the beginning (verse 8). Prior to 3rd century BC there was only 2 grounds for divorce - adultery and neglect (abuse). A woman back then could have grounds for divorce on the basis of being maltreated by her husband. By Jesus' lifetime this law had been forgotten to the detriment of women. Jesus' command in Matt 19:9 was to protect the rights of the women at that time who no longer had any rights in a marriage. If there was a problem with the law pertaining to neglect He would have addressed it. Likewise in 1 Cor chapter 7 Paul had to address again the fact that both men and women (1 Cor 7:13)with their new freedom in Christ were divorcing their non Christian spouses at the drop of a hat (1 Cor 7: 12-16 & v20). Paul like Jesus was addressing issues that were brought to him but that did not mean that the non discussed laws were no longer applicable in a marriage.

If both parties agree to separation it is allowable, but a bad idea just the same.

Can you provide the scriptural reference relating to this please?

Your baby is the main reason why your husband should be home.

But it is both our responsibility to ensure that our baby has a safe and happy home to live in. We as parents are held accountable to G-d if we deliberately fail to do that. Incidentally, my husband said afterwards that given the circumstances I "absolutely did the right thing" (his words). He said that if he was in my shoes he would have done the same thing because both our goals is to provide our baby with a safe and happy environment to live in. He was thankful that I removed her from the house when I did as he was under considerable pressure then.

Read the statistics on children of divorce and get back with me. God's word is meant to protect people from their well meaning intentions.

My issue is not about divorce but separation. That is why I would ask you to read the statistics on the impact of children living in abusive households. G-d protects the innocent, so likewise His Word would not cause the innocent to suffer. It is man's interpretation of G-d's word which causes the suffering.

I would not be quick to judge another believer's actions who is in an abusive relationship having experienced it at first hand. Each of us need encouragement and support and not condemnation when in such situations.

I disagree with your statement that it is the wife who is solely at fault for allowing an abusive husband to leave her and marry someone else. G-d will come after him - first for causing suffering to the ones he is responsible to protect as the head of that household and second to continue in his sin by inflicting that on someone else. He is not exempt from blame - he has caused his wife to sin by forcing her to usurp his headship and divorce him. His actions could either cause his children to emulate him in their own relationships in adult life or reduce their self esteem to nothing to where they themselves are abused. Hence the reason why He will be judged perhaps worse than his wife's decision to divorce him.

Just my 2c's

G-d bless

 

[Blessed75]

Thank you Lotuspetal!

 

[desi]

He has no biblical authority b/c he's not a christian. He physically, emotionally and mentally abused me. Do you think God would want His child abused in this manner. Should I stay with a man who has beat the literal hell out of me, mocked my beliefs, and was verbally abusive to me? I have not defied the bible. Until you've walked a mile in my shoes, you really have no right to judge. Sorry you don't understand, until you've been abused - I guess you won't. Any more questions for me?

Sure, one more question. I almost hesitate to ask it as it seems insignificant to the monstrous ordeal you've been through. Here goes, where does the Bible say a wife can divorce a husband, nonChristian or otherwise?

Where does it say a nonChristian husband has no Biblical authority? I urge you to understand what you profess to believe.