Women becoming pastors?

[truefiction1]

?? He didn't say anything of the kind.
He made Eve question what God had said - not that she knew anyway, since the command was given to Adam before she had even been created.

5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

"That is to say" says the serpent, "God does not want to share His glory as God with anyone else, for God is proud to be God (chauvinistic) and selfishly hoards His Glory as God. This is the real reason that God has lied to you and told you not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Because if you do, God knows that your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. God prefers to bask in His sense of His own superiority as God (chauvinism). Therefore, take and eat of this fruit of rebellion against the rules that God has set up in His creation, and show God you're not going to put up with anymore of His chauvinistic lying that is keeping you down."

We have some here claiming that the Word of God, which teaches that there are differences between women and men which are to be honored as the will of God in His creative design, contains chauvinistic lies which are not to be believed. Smells like the fruit of rebellion to me. We might do well not to be hasty in swallowing it, no matter how good it might appear, knowing that the devil often appears as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14).

 

[JackRT]

5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

"That is to say" says the serpent, "God does not want to share His glory as God with anyone else, for God is proud to be God (chauvinistic) and selfishly hoards His Glory as God. This is the real reason that God has lied to you and told you not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Because if you do, God knows that your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. God prefers to bask in His sense of His own superiority as God (chauvinism). Therefore, take and eat of this fruit of rebellion against the rules that God has set up in His creation, and show God you're not going to put up with anymore of His chauvinistic lying that is keeping you down."

We have some here claiming that the Word of God, which teaches that there are differences between women and men which are to be honored as the will of God in His creative design, contains chauvinistic lies which are not to be believed. Smells like the fruit of rebellion to me. We might do well not to be hasty in swallowing it, no matter how good it might appear, knowing that the devil often appears as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14).

You have a very creative imagination.

 

[truefiction1]

You have a very creative imagination.

More like a very good education in how we are lied to.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Peter taught women not to say anything to unbelieving husbands but to lead by example. Other than that the only cross[reference is found in Ester that was put in place by Persians and followed in the Purin rabinical law.
What Paul did understand was the place of the church in context to the head of the church that he exemplified in marraige. The shadow of the truth. The church does not speak. Only Christ does. iow, there should be no pastors at all who are not speaking from inspiration. Everything else is speculation.
But that's neither here nor there for me. For one, I'm not a pastor, nor am I married, nor do I partake in worshipping at any fleshly throne.

Here is a supporting verse.

1 Timothy 2:12
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

 

[vanda]

A church near me has a woman pastor senior pastor. My take on this that a woman should not be the senior pastor of a church. In which the Bible speaks highly against it.
What is your take on this?

I believe that in the early church period women were not in same position as men as it's Jewish customs and culture context but in these modern days we can see that God has used many more women as we can see in many ministries more and more. And many are well accepted in many countries now, even in the world there are many women leaders in high positions like prime minister, president or even in high position in business and government. God has no discrimination and He can use anyone who are willing to be used by Him.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 KJV
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Philip_B]

In assessing this matter, and I am part of a Church where women are ordained to the three orders of ministry (Bishops, Priests and Deacons), there seems to be more than simply Paul's text in 1 Corinthians, but also other Pauline text such as Galatians 3:28-29.

Jesus was prepared to break with the tradition as in John 4 where he speaks with the woman and the well, a significant passage which reaches it's high point declaring Jesus to be the Saviour of the Cosmos. Then of course is the biggest yes in history when Mary said 'I am the Lord's servant, let it be to me according to your word'. And of course one must ask who did God choose to tell the Apostles of the Resurrection in the first place?

In my Church where we are perhaps 30 years into the process, I am aware that a number of the early female ordinands were banner carriers and pavers of the way, however now we are more settled. I think that women bring something special to the charism of priesthood that adds value to it, and whilst I don't wish to exclude men from Holy Orders, neither do I think we should exclude women.

Two areas which worry me a little, and one is that we now seem to have significantly more women ordinands than men, and we run the risk of loosing something, and the other is that we have not been supportive enough of those who have real problems with accepting the ordination of women. I still think we are in a transitional phase and have a way to go.

I of course did not make the decision, and in truth I don't attend the Parish I do because of the priest, nor do I not attend it because of the priest. As a city dweller I do have a number of choices, unlike rural parishes where the next Parish may well be a lot more than an hour away. I will not be defined by my acceptance of this matter, which in realistic terms is above my pay grade, but rather by allegiance to Christ and his Church of which it is a privilege for me to be part of.

In discussing this topic the most important thing is to listen with respect to one another. Hurling bible verses across the room as theological rocks is not a discussion, nor a debate, nor is it especially edifying. CF is a big place, some members of it are from Orthodox Traditions where the ordination of women is inconceivable, and some members of CF are ordained (and women) who are in charge of Parish Communities, and I for one have no desire to be hurtful to either.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

There is no need, it is what it is and it is very clear.
((.

How's that working for you so far. Dragging someone in the middle of the night to court with no witness

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Here is a supporting verse.

1 Timothy 2:12
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”

Still one witness Paul

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Fortunately I recognize the bigger picture so frankly scarlett...

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Still one witness Paul

Two, plus the Holy Spirit...

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Two, plus the Holy Spirit...

I have no desire to continue this conversation.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

How's that working for you so far. Dragging someone in the middle of the night to court with no witness

I am dragging no one to court, I am accepting the witness of God's own inspired word.

I refuse to put God's word on trial; God's word is enough; but if you need more, we do have a "cloud of witnesses"; about 2000 years worth.

Following God's Word is a comfort for us when we know that on the last day we will face judgement. Questioning God's word would make me fearful of what the judgement might be; therefore, since I accept St. Paul's writings as the Divinely inspired word of God; then advocating something at odds with it to me is not an expression of Sola Scriptura; rather Anti-Scriptura.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I am dragging no one to court, I am accepting the witness of God's own inspired word.

I refuse to put God's word on trial; God's word is enough; but if you need more, we do have a "cloud of witnesses"; about 2000 years worth.

Following God's Word is a comfort for us when we know that on the last day we will face judgement. Questioning God's word would make me fearful of what the judgement might be; therefore, since I accept St. Paul's writings as the Divinely inspired word of God; then advocating something at odds with it to me is not an expression of Sola Scriptura; rather Anti-Scriptura.

If you will notice my only question was for the corresponding verse of law that Paul referred to. My only statement was that forums are not a church so women should not be judged in that standard. If. as an administrator, you speak for cf that women should confine themselves to women only forums so men won't be sullied by what they say then why don't you just say so

 

[Anguspure]

A church near me has a woman pastor senior pastor. My take on this that a woman should not be the senior pastor of a church. In which the Bible speaks highly against it.
What is your take on this?

So if the woman is best suited for the role and there are no useful men around what do you think God would do?
The Bible is full of examples of women in positions such as this and being even more infuential and strong.
We once had a woman who was Prime Minister of our country and while I disliked her politics and her style, I had to admit that she was the best and most respectable leader available at the time.
If men won't step up to the base then women always have and always will because somebody has to do the job.

 

[tulc]

That was referring to judicial cases and not to statements that need no further clarifications. Why do you feel that what Paul said needs further clarification? Does he need further clarification when he tells us that the Law was only a shadow of things to come or that Jesus was the last Adam?

1 Corinthians 15:45 ►
New International Version
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.


Or that Adam was NOT deceived but Eve was?

1 Timothy 2:14 ►
New International Version
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Can you provide it? The concepts are novel to the NT itself and aren't mentioned by any other Apostle. Are we to reject them because of that? Can you substantiate the statements of Jude that Michael disputed over Moses' body with the Devil and then said: "May the Lord Rebuke you!"? Of course not and they need no further support.

Jude 1:
"But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, 'The Lord rebuke you!'

About the bolded portion: Maybe the reason no one disputes it is because frankly it's sort of an "...ooook then... " type Scripture, while the other one has impacted world wide on millions of non-male Christians for a couple of thousand years now?
tulc(just a thought)

 

[SnowyMacie]

Neither were Priests or clergy.

No, but Phoebe, Priscilla, and likely others where whatever forms of clergy existed in the first century church.

 

[SnowyMacie]

We have some here claiming that the Word of God, which teaches that there are differences between women and men which are to be honored as the will of God in His creative design, contains chauvinistic lies which are not to be believed.

Except that's not what we're saying. We're saying The Bible is reflective of the culture that it was written in, a culture that was heavily patriarchal and viewed women as basically property.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

About the bolded portion: Maybe the reason no one disputes it is because frankly it's sort of an "...ooook then... " type Scripture, while the other one has impacted world wide on millions of non-male Christians for a couple of thousand years now?
tulc(just a thought)

That's what many would call a smoke screen

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

If you will notice my only question was for the corresponding verse of law that Paul referred to. My only statement was that forums are not a church so women should not be judged in that standard. If. as an administrator, you speak for cf that women should confine themselves to women only forums so men won't be sullied by what they say then why don't you just say so

No, CF is not a Church, nor was I talking about anything other than the office of holy ministry.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

More like a very good education in how we are lied to.

COOL! (if true)
Short test: Why were all the remedies and preventions (basically) for cancer made illegal in the USA before 1960 (by federal law),
and through most of the world by what's called "codex" in the last 40 years ?

Comparing as Y'SHUA said: (testing by HIS WORD/ like Bereans):
(from quik internet search
John 3:12 - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John 3:12
If I tell you things that are plain as the hand before your face and you don't believe me, what use is there in telling you of things you can't see, the things of God?