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The statements are in harmony with each other.
I would use your second example first,because it qualified the first.
It is hard to explain to a critic that W.O.F does not claim anything out side of Gods Word for revelation.
Gods Word is a living Word,in that revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word.
haha just pull back on the reins a bit there bro .. your horse is galloping away a bit ..I thought your thread was "What is wof"?
The genuine wof have answered that well.
Now you're speaking of "the few"?
If you have a bone to pick with the disingenuous, they're found in every denomination, so why pick ONLY on WOF?
Do the disingenuous of other denominations NOT bother you?
Do the disingenuous of ANY denomination make sense to ANY of us?
Why waste time talking about a few people who are badly off-track?
What's that going to accomplish?
Let's get about the FATHER'S business, so people can be saved, healed, and delivered.
WOF aren't concerned with the disingenuous because we know they're in every denomination. They'll all have to answer to the LORD for their antics.haha just pull back on the reins a bit there bro .. your horse is galloping away a bit ..
if you read my OP .. you wil find there too i refer to "the few" in the words "some extremists " or as you put it (better) the "disingenuous" , stating that perhaps they are to blame for the very misconceptions your concerned about .
..shake hands and be friends ??
did you read the Op .. ?and note who wrote it. your grabbing the wet end of the stick.the bit the dog chewed.WOF aren't concerned with the disingenuous because we know they're in every denomination. They'll all have to answer to the LORD for their antics.
What we're addressing is the preoccupation non-wof have with the subject.
Why are you so concerned with only the disingenuous who claim to be wof?
Why do you keep attaching the genuine with the disingenuous (even in your OP) ONLY when it comes to wof?
Why don't you do that for every denomination, or SEPARATE the 2 in EVERY denomination?
How can I consider you a friend when you do this only to wof?
You're a brother because we have the same FATHER, but the way you post about wof isn't as a friend would.
The FATHER would be pleased if we could be both brothers and friends, but I think even HE would ask that your posts about wof be more considerate of the truth about wof.
The genuine wof are answering your questions.
Do you accept what we say, or do you still lump us in with the disingenuous and call us all wof?
Why don't you cut the disingenuous out from the wof herd and group them in with the disingenuous herd?
Isn't that what you do for other denominations?
You're right about the OP.did you read the Op .. ?and note who wrote it. your grabbing the wet end of the stick.the bit the dog chewed.overly defensive much?
It might surprise detractors of WOF to know that as believers, they want to get it right. If something doesn't work, they want to know why. They want to know what works. No one wants to be seen as a fool for buying into a lie. If they know that have revelation in an area, and for some reason, things seem to stop, they want to know what to do to correct it, and to enter in.
The whole point of getting free (beyond being free) is so you can tell someone how they can be free. No one likes to see people ignorantly bound up. Those who put up "defenses" without having a listening ear will not go any farther on their journey of understanding in the area of faith and overcoming. There should be an openness.
- They want to know how to do "the violence" thing to enter in.
- They want to go beyond "as far as you know" in the believing department.
- They truly want to continue in the Word so they can be free.
Most WOF people aren't impressed with others pointing out people who got into the ditch on a doctrine because they're not walking after those people.
There area lot of non-WOF people who genuinely want to walk in unity, even with WOF in the areas that are correct, and themselves enter into their inheritance.
People want to lay aside the baggage of perceived movements to the left or right, and along the way, the enemy, like a roaring lion reacts to truth when it is presented. They want you to know it's a way fraught with doubts and concerns, because they are the ones sowing the seeds for them by continually pointing them out (through believers). If someone really wanted to promote unity, they might ask questions, but cease to use those who failed as examples of what is, instead of what is not.
It's time to get into unity about what we do believe. If we don't agree about something, more often than not, it's just because of the way they heard it presented (sometimes through the prism of their own faulty hearing). People need a clear presentation of truth without someone rising up in the enemy's "lion's voice" to distract away from the truth -- the freedom.
This thread should be an excellent opportunity to present things like that, but it usually denigrates into someone presenting the "bad version" of doctrine as a tool of the enemy. The spirit of accusation enters in to defile the conversation. The mixture of swine entering in keeps pearls of revelation from coming forth.
Without pointing any fingers specifically, those who don't really want to know the truth should bow out of the discussion and not distract those who want to hear a balance in WOF doctrine. That's what WOF wants also. No one wants to be self-deceived. If something falls short, we want to know it, but it wont be by accusation that anyone "gets set free".
Those guilty of this should purpose to change and not be a hindrance to those who do.
"revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."
SO AGAIN, as I said to begin with "Faith" is a REVELATION.
And Popular/TOXIC WoF tries to get folks WHO DON"T HAVE the inner witness - to act as though they do - i.e. Act presumptively.
Simple as that.
Charles Capps teaches a lot on FAITH - what it is and what it isn't."revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."
SO AGAIN, as I said to begin with "Faith" is a REVELATION.
And Popular/TOXIC WoF tries to get folks WHO DON"T HAVE the inner witness - to act as though they do - i.e. Act presumptively.
Simple as that.
From reading many of Bob Carabbio's posts, IMO he differs from WOF on this:"revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."
SO AGAIN, as I said to begin with "Faith" is a REVELATION.
And Popular/TOXIC WoF tries to get folks WHO DON"T HAVE the inner witness - to act as though they do - i.e. Act presumptively.
Simple as that.
Charles Capps teaches a lot on FAITH - what it is and what it isn't.
He says people see a promise and REALLY hope it will happen if they STEP OUT.
Or some people think FAITH is a feeling, so they step out in EMOTION.
Or some people think they can override their doubts by stepping out AGAINST all doubt.
NONE of this is FAITH.
WOF doesn't tell anyone to do any of this.
Charles Capps, Copeland, Hagin, etc, say to keep hearing the word until faith rises up, then step out.
"Act as though you do" means don't freak out over things, keep acting as though the WORD works, and get with the LORD and in HIS word to sort out with HIM what's bothering you.
IOW, don't fall apart over setbacks etc.
Hang onto the promise of the LORD, and go double up in the WORD to get your faith strengthened.
For starters, you're not forcing God to do anything. You're looking at it the wrong way. We're talking about receiving something that is already yours. It's done supernaturally, by faith. If it weren't yours, "in Christ" (a place of submission and love), then you'd have a point.ll this, and for what? To prove there exists a method that is capable of forcing God to move?
Just because I want something, and even ask the Lord for it, there is no guarantee any part of the request will be filled, as if I have submitted a purchase order to heaven.
You're talking about corresponding actions of faith. You can't get around it. We're supposed to walk by faith. But it assumes a certain connection that has the guidance system built into it. We're supposed to know that at least our basic necessities will be fulfilled. Beyond that, you ascertain what His will is and you go back the peace (or lack of it).And what must I pay? Well, I'm told through this approach that I must get all my ducks in a row, confess daily until I possess -- which in the majority of cases never manifests -- and to not commit an act that would stand in the way of receiving that request.
It's all about getting the method down pat, rather than cooperating with the H.G. in building inwardly the image of Christ through the work of suffering -- which cannot take place without the denial of self, as opposed to the serving of self.
The WOF folks absolutely hate the word "suffering," and most struggle with its significance in a Christian life, but it is the key to God's true intent, to change us into the image of His Son, to build in us hearts that wish not to live on bread alone.
I can't begin to relate to the last half of that. The whole "entitlement" thing is so bizarre. If you want His will and His kingdom in your life by His strength, with a lot of fruit and a strong faith and an overcoming love, then every promise that pertains to that you are entitled to (only by grace). The whole catch is that we abide. It's the big "IF". I personally believe if we're ok in that, we're good to absolutely expect those needs to not only be met, but for Him to be overjoyed you dared to step forward and believe them as being yours, even though you didn't "hear" anything today about it).It's about character building and pressing in to know Him in the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His suffering, not grocery shopping through the claiming of entitlements 24/7.
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