WOF teachings?

[South Bound]

i'm not a follower of Joel Olsteen, but i'm not going to help the devil publicly criticize and condemn that man either

Why would the Devil criticize and condemn Joel Osteen, when Osteen's doing such a good job for him?

why do you think you are qualified to judge him or anyone else besides yourself?

Because the Bible tells us to.

are you so familiar with his personal finances that you know how much he gives? would it be ok for him to live in a $10m mansion if he gives $100m to help the needy each year? what if someone gave him that house - would you expect him to sell it and live in an efficiency apartment? could you move into a smaller place and give more to the needy? are you living on exactly what you need and giving the rest to the needy? is this why you feel you are able to judge him?

The money's only part of the problem. It's his doctrines that are misleading people that are the bigger problem.

remember, as you judge, so shall you be judged...

I'm fine with that. If I'm preaching a false gospel like Osteen, then I should be judged.

 

[South Bound]

i'm not mad sister; just trying to get you to see that there is no faith that's not 'word-based' in Christianity. it sounds like you ran across a group that don't understand faith; a crowd that thinks that actions such as 'proper confessions' make God move for them. but God has already moved, and confession is a key to receiving what He's already given.

there are basically 3 'types' of confessions:

-a confession of convenience; this is where those around you are confessing something that you don't necessarily understand and agree with, but you confess it too just to fit in

-a confession of convincing; this is where you've seen a promise from God in His word that you know is for every Christian, and although you believe it in your heart, your head isn't convinced yet because of opposing reports from your senses and the world. faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God, so as you confess the word of God that's in your heart, your head begins to believe it as well, and your thinking process begins to change.

-a confession of conviction; this is where you've not only seen a promise from God in His word that you know is for every Christian and believed it in your heart, but have meditated on that promise, and having practiced confessing it, it has become part of your thinking process - so when something rises up against that particular Truth, you automatically confess the Truth in response to condemn the lie the devil's trying to sell you.

for example; you have a cold, and you speak against it, but nothing seems to happen - you still have all the symptoms of a cold - and those symptoms are arguing with you about your healing; they are speaking to you. but once you incorporate 1 Peter 2:24 into your thinking (as referring to Isaiah 53:5, which the Holy Spirit through Matthew 8:17 interpreted to mean physical healing); this argument from your physical body will produce a confession of conviction that releases the power of God to heal that cold and 'condemn the tongue that rises against you in judgment' which are the symptoms your body is using to argue with you about your healing. most people can hold up in faith for a while; but faith never fails - people just get tired and decide it doesn't work after all - there is no time limit on faith, no point where continuing in faith is futile. and unless you have a cold right now, you have already received your healing from every cold you've ever had.

Isa 54:17 KJV
(17) No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

it's really about delegated authority...

Could you please show us the verse that says we're to speak to colds?

Could you also please explain why you believe Matthew 8:17 is evidence for healing in the atonement, when the atonement had not yet taken place?

 

[South Bound]

One of my workmates, who belonged to this church (no idea why, maybe cos it was the nearest one and many from her culture were going...she could be with those who spoke her language) said the pastor would boast about playing golf and his flash car. I dont think he ever invited many of the other members to play unless they in his inner circle of leaders.

His name didn't happen to be Bob Palmer, did it?

 

[Optimax]

Actually, that's not scriptural proof. That's a silly claim and an out of context Bible verse with your ideology read into it.

Here is the verse in its proper context, as an honest person would have posted it:



So, as you can see, this verse, when read in the context of its passage, has nothing to do with WoF, but is contrasting righteousness based on the law with righteousness based on faith.

Nice try, though.

My, my.
Are you saying I am not honest?

You sure jump off the conclusion cliff rather quickly.

Paul clearly said that he preached the word of faith.

He then went on explaining in Rom 10 how the process of being saved by faith (through grace) works.

The same process of faith, which involves believing in ones heart (innermost being) and confessing what is believed, based on the word of God.

Rom 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; KJV

 

[Optimax]

Could you please show us the verse that says we're to speak to colds?

Could you also please explain why you believe Matthew 8:17 is evidence for healing in the atonement, when the atonement had not yet taken place?

Do ya think Isaiah did not know what he was talking about?

Remember Isaiah was a Prophet speaking what God said or showed him.

 

[South Bound]

My, my.
Are you saying I am not honest?

You did intentionally post a verse out of context.

Paul clearly said that he preached the word of faith.

And because there's a modern movement that identifies itself by the same phrase, you want us to believe they're the same thing?

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; KJV

You just got caught and you're going to do it again already?

Do ya think Isaiah did not know what he was talking about?

So, no verse.

Remember Isaiah was a Prophet speaking what God said or showed him.

I agree, but that has nothing to do with the question I asked.

Do ya think Isaiah did not know what he was talking about?

So, no verse.

Remember Isaiah was a Prophet speaking what God said or showed him.

I agree, but that has nothing to do with the question I asked.

The truth does bears repeating.

But you didn't post the truth. You intentionally posted a verse out of context in order to make it appear to say something different than what it says. That's not truth. That's deception.

Every read Mark 11:23-24?

With Isaiah.

Yes, I have. That's how I know that it's not a valid answer to my question.

You don't know the verse she's implying?

No, I don't. For all my many talents, mind reading is not one of them.

I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 100. Do you not know what it is?

 

[Optimax]

You did intentionally post a verse out of context.



And because there's a modern movement that identifies itself by the same phrase, you want us to believe they're the same thing?



You just got caught and you're going to do it again already?



So, no verse.

I agree, but that has nothing to do with the question I asked.

The truth does bears repeating.

Every read Mark 11:23-24?

With Isaiah.

You are trying to speak as one that has understanding.

You don't know the verse?

 

[Optimax]

The tree was cursed cause it had no figs.

Jesus told his disciples they could do the same thing if they believed and spoke.

 

[Optimax]

Double post

 

[Optimax]

Peter and Matthew learned what was said in these verses from Isaiah.
1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. KJV

Matt 8:17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sickness KJV

Isa 53:4-5
4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains -- he hath carried them, And we -- we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace [is] on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us. YLT

 

[Goodbook]

i don't know what people on about now..debate amongst yourselves.

there is word of faith in the bible which is JESUS as He is the gospel and he is the WORD and then there's whole 'nother teaching thats become a religion.

as said before, some people take it to extremes then try and say it's all about money and being healthy and that we won't even die when we newsflash, we must die before we become resurrected and born again.

 

[Goodbook]

It's like they miss the resurrection bit out.

 

[Biblicist]

Paul was WOF!

Hopefully Paul won't be waiting for you as you enter heaven as I suspect that he might want you to reconsider your words!

Here is the scriptural proof.

Rom 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; KJV

Paul said he preached the word of faith

Word Of Faith = WOF.

Yes, but that does not mean that you can simply pick a few disjointed words or even phrases and then try and build them into a workable theology.

 

[Frogster]

Jesus made a negative confession He said the "poor you will always have with you"

Paul confessed he came into Macedonia in fear in 2 Cor 7.

Paul said he had daily anxiety for the churches in 2 Cor 11:28.

28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches.

The psalms have a lot of "negative confessions" too.

 

[Frogster]

James said, remember the poor, he did not pretend they were rich, and call them rich, he "confessed" the facts.

Gal 2:10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

 

[sunlover1]

I spend over a decade in a WOF congregation so I got to know their theology fairly well. (I fought it constantly)

WOF believes in the power of confessing the Bible. (which is a good thing in and of itself) But often that means lying about what is true (if it is negative). And if you say or type something negative (even if true) then you are making a "negative confession" which handcuffs God and gives the devil free reign in your life.

For example: if you fall and break your arm, and it is hanging limp at your side, you cannot say your arm is broken. You have to say "By His stripes I WAS (past tense) healed;" meaning you do not have a broken arm. To say it is still broken (even though it clearly is) means you have no faith so God cannot work in your life; and it opens up the devil to do all kinds of other garbage in your life.

People do indeed do what you said above.
But it's not the correct WOF teaching..
(Just as my catholic friends use birth control,
it's not what they "believe in" doing)
I could be wrong, feel free to correct me if you
have some inside information that I missed.

God calls things that are not as though they were,
He doesn't call things that are as though they are not.
We are to be emulators of God, no?
If your arm is broken, it's broken.
Can't just pretend it isn't LOL
Funny stuff.
I know folks who do this too, and I try to help them
because when you don't have the truth, you can be
kept in bondage.

IMO
sunlover

 

[sunlover1]

i don't know what people on about now..debate amongst yourselves.

there is word of faith in the bible which is JESUS as He is the gospel and he is the WORD and then there's whole 'nother teaching thats become a religion.

as said before, some people take it to extremes then try and say it's all about money and being healthy and that we won't even die when we newsflash, we must die before we become resurrected and born again.

Greetings Goodbook!
Welcome to CF
I haven't been here for a few weeks or so,
my has it changed!

I agree, some take it to extremes, but then again,
God takes things to extremes.
I believe we need to learn to have the mind of Christ,
Holding the thoughts and purposes of Christ in our hearts.
"Speaking of things that be not as though they were", is
an interesting concept.

You mention health and finances.
Jesus did do a LOT of speaking about those things.
He seems to want us to be healthy and have enough
that we can not be burdened with those worries.
IMO
When i am poor, it's all i can do to survive.
I have less time for intercessory prayer, i can't
feed the poor (as I'm instructed to by God) and
if I'm sick in bed, I"m seriously little help to anyone.

Interesting thread, I hope you find things different here than
you did on the last site you visited, but I kind of doubt it.
Religion and politics,, we all know the program
Blessings !!!!
SL

 

[Goodbook]

I remember a verse think it's in proverbs about not having too much riches or poverty. too much riches and you get consumed by them, not enough and you then tempted to steal.

and then there's Jesus admonition in the book of Revelation to the loadicean church.

I think the focus of much of WOF is a bit off IMHO and can easily be turned into lust for money and power by wolves. I know many tend to "use" God for their own ends, instead of honoring Him.

with catholicism, another kettle of fish...the way they teach what the Bible says (or neglect certain parts of it) lends to all kind of weird abuses. There it is extreme also, marry have lots of children, or don't marry at all and be a monk and nun and never have any for your entire life.

 

[pdudgeon]

I remember a verse think it's in proverbs about not having too much riches or poverty. too much riches and you get consumed by them, not enough and you then tempted to steal.

and then there's Jesus admonition in the book of Revelation to the loadicean church.

I think the focus of much of WOF is a bit off IMHO and can easily be turned into lust for money and power by wolves. I know many tend to "use" God for their own ends, instead of honoring Him.

with catholicism, another kettle of fish...the way they teach what the Bible says (or neglect certain parts of it) lends to all kind of weird abuses. There it is extreme also, marry have lots of children, or don't marry at all and be a monk and nun and never have any for your entire life.

all of these 'observances' only serve to show that you are not familiar with what you are talking about, and that the basis of your judgement about them is flawed.

My grandfather used to talk about folks like that.
He said that in life they only had one more thing to learn; that they didn't know as much as they thought they did.

 

[Goodbook]

Im know many who came out of WOF, personally, used to be in a prayer group where some of the leaders believed that sort of stuff, so am familiar with it as i want to be.

Which i dont want to be anymore, since it shipwrecks a lot of peoples faith. I had a lady whos husband died of cancer in the group...she was nearly blaming God and losing faith, as was her husband...it was all kept very hush because they didnt want to say a negative thing. Some people hold on for their earthly lives far too long rather than be with the Lord when hes calling them home and wanting them to repent and forgive each other before they go.